jadarite: i understand the difference between putting a move into the computer, or playing directly on the computer

there is even a difference between playing on the computer or on a phone. people tend to submit moves faster (without checking) on phones (in my experience)

the question is: suppose there is a undo mechanism here .. in which you can undo a move in about 30 seconds .. would you go back to each game after you submitted the move? in case of the action of going back, you could change that action into checking before submitting the move .. each is an extra action you have to perform, and each can be forgotten as easily

i had to change my gameplay as well: in the past i used the mouse to click on 'cancel this move' when i didnt want ... i especially use that in froglet games in which i view the board as it would be after i made the move, before i submit the move .... i accidently clicked on submit instead of cancel a few times .... after that i am not using the backspace key on my keyboard to go back (and cancel) and use the mouse to submit my move, so i wont accidently use the wrong action (although they are clearly separated on this site i sometimes click too fast :))

jadarite: free accounts have unlimited moves per day, but a limit on how many games they can have going on at the same time ... so if you have a fast opponent, then you can have a lot of moves per day

jadarite: Do not take anything written on this site too seriously. There are many obsolete texts here, as well as just about as many missing ones. And as pointed out by rabbitoid, the One is no longer bothered...

For rook, it states, "The player is not limited by number of started games at once nor number of moves per day nor number of joined tournaments and team tournaments, is limited by 35 vacation days per year."

If we have a free account, we are limited to a number of moves per day? If so, then how many moves does a free member have per day in a game of shogi?

Justaminute: "And the current situation is no different from letting go of your piece completes your move in competitive over the board games."

It is different. In a competitive over the board game, you wouldn't be making moves on a computer like here. If I were playing a competitive over the board game, I would have just moved the piece that I intended to move and WOULD NOT have made a clerical mistake on the computer.

Vikings: Ok, but then posters cannot correct spelling and grammar mistakes. If you create a system that works with the people, then the people will work with the system. You build a system that condemns people from the start, well, you get my drift. Just my 2 cents.

jadarite: that is a privilege for paying members and for a good reason

They don't even allow you edit posts here.

Roberto Silva: "And I'll be blunt: if you submit the move without checking it properly, then you're doing things wrong, and the developer shouldn't have to waste precious time and energy compensating for your own inability to use the game features that are already there."

Spoken like a true computer nerd. This is about playing off the computer. You might not understand this and then simply inputting the move.

If you can't understand the difference between playing a computer and inputting a move on the computer, you have some serious "wrong" thinking.

Anyway, I am not begging for it. I just noticed one game I am playing is a waste because I never intended that move. That fact remains regardless if I put in the correct move now and only use the computer board.

Actually, what would be really useful to some players, is the ability to take back their move after their opponent has moved.

For example, in Artful's case (Artful Dodger vs. Wilhelmina), whenever Wilhelmina sent him back to base, he could undo both Wilhelmina's move and his own and re-roll.

Of course, you would need a cap on the number of undos, say about 30 per game, with the ability to undo any number of moves at any time up to the cap. So if you were being slaughtered at battle boats, on move 29, you could undo 30 moves and restart with a new board. Brilliant I say

jadarite: You can do everything you said already with the current system, where you can click on a move, see the effects it will have on the board position, go away and have dinner if you want, then come back and cancel the move if you don't like it. So long as you don't submit the move before being 100% sure that's what you want, you can do anything you want with the board.

And I'll be blunt: if you submit the move without checking it properly, then you're doing things wrong, and the developer shouldn't have to waste precious time and energy compensating for your own inability to use the game features that are already there.

happyjuggler0: Agreed. And the current situation is no different from letting go of your piece completes your move in competitive over the board games. Irrespective of whether your opponent is looking.

jadarite: I just want to move my piece where it was intended.

No one is stopping you from doing so right now under the current set up. You can wait 3 minutes after making your move before hitting "submit".

To be honest if Fencer was still reading these boards he would say that it is a waste of programming time to make the proposed changes.

I would agree with him too; there are much better ways for him to modify this site for the better than changing the site for the worse because someone has poor impulse control.

Thom27: Same counterargument.

rabbitoid, jadarite: What I mean, might be called "delayed submit": If you click submit, the move is not immediately submitted. It is eventually submitted when the delay time elapsed. During the delay, the opponent (or anyone else) sees the position before the move in question, as it is not yet submitted.

jadarite: My 2 cents:
I see nothing wrong in the concept, under condition that the opponent has not looked at the board. (the system knows). Once the opponent looks at the played move, no undo is possible.
In practice, however, it will be impossible to implement - you'd need a programmer to do that, and the only one available seems to be on extended leave.

Thom27: Sorry, I don't understand, me come in peace.

"jadarite: maybe this revert time is not a bad idea (at least in turn based play with long thinking times). Within 3 minutes after submitting a move, the mover can still take it bak, and it is not yet transmitted to the opponent, to avoid a race condition.

Then there is no irreversible action that may be regretted immediately after it is done, while the delay does not force the user to wait for it. The time can be used as one pleases: either think again or go on and forget it."

I just want to move my piece where it was intended.

jadarite: maybe this revert time is not a bad idea (at least in turn based play with long thinking times). Within 3 minutes after submitting a move, the mover can still take it bak, and it is not yet transmitted to the opponent, to avoid a race condition.

Then there is no irreversible action that may be regretted immediately after it is done, while the delay does not force the user to wait for it. The time can be used as one pleases: either think again or go on and forget it.

Walter Montego: I am trying to adjust my eyes to a real board. So, I have the pieces set up to the position on the computer. If I were planning the moves all online, yea you are right. However, I tell myself "Move knight" then walk to the computer room and move a knight. I don't think about the game during this time. I just move the knight. I am not double checking.

So, a draft idea would simply record the move in private and then I would sign back on to double check.

Think of it like this, you spend 20 minutes or so looking at a position and come to a decision. You get a phone call, so you make this "draft" move. Take the phone call, and the come back to the "draft" mode. Ask yourself, "Do you really want to do this?" Instead of "Did you really want to do this?

It gives you time to double check. I don't think putting 2 or 3 buttons on a page serves this purpose. When I clicked move I didn't realize I moved the wrong knight. I came back after clearing my head and then saw the mistake.

It was a clerical mistake at worst, it had nothing to do with the 20 minutes while I spent considering the other knight. It makes a big difference in the game, not so much in computing.

Anyway, the messages can be private, so perhaps we can have a private option to record moves we are thinking about. We could commit to them later.

jadarite: I do not see the need for this since you can check your move before you enter it. Just make the move, look at the board, and then decide to enter the move. I rarely just click, move, enter. Maybe if the move is forced or something, other wise I check the move before I enter it as I too have been burned by clicking the wrong piece and not realizing it. If I do that, I just live with it. And I am glad we cannot ask our opponent to take the move back. Just imagine the headaches from having that option. The games with hidden information, such as Dark Chess or Battleboats would be trouble. For regular Chess, let's say you take the move back. Nah, I don't like. I grew up playing you could touch and move any piece and put it back as long as you didn't take your hand off of it and this exactly how it is done here. So don't take your hand off the piece!

Backgammon has a warning when resigning a game in match play. This is a good idea for backgammon in match play as some positions can be worth two or three times the game point. The warning will ask if you really want to resign and tell you how many game points the resignation will cost you.

This draft idea, would it mean something like a surrogate board that had the game set up and all moves, but wasn't connected to the actual game? I already use the game in progress for this, but it has the dangers we are discussing. I don't know if I see the need for it. I know some people set up a position on a real board to help them think of moves, but I just look at the screen and think of my moves, or I used to take notes and that works too.

jadarite: I guess what I am looking for is a "draft" mode like in email. You can look at it later but you haven't sent it.

You should be allowed to undo a move if your opponent hasn't responded and it's only like 2 minutes. I was using an board offline and then told myself to move like a knight, where there are 2 of them. I didn't realize I moved the wrong one. I just went to the computer and clicked on the other knight by mistake.

I looked at the board 2 minutes later and realized, "That's the wrong piece!!!".

jadarite: Looks like unchecking, refreshing, and then checking again resets things.

I am not getting email notices when my opponent makes a move. I have it checked in settings.

Pedro Martínez: hahahahaha.....correct

Justaminute: I think the word "life" in your post is quite unnecessary. :)

Bernice: I think Brainking is a great site, but given Fencer's posts that basically amount to "i don't care about Brainking anymore", anyone buying life membership now would need their head examining

Bernice:  Where is that dang Like Button!! LOL

Thad: I dont know about comparisons but I do know there are ONE HELL OF A LOT of players that are no longer playing here for one reason or another :( and some of them are life members as well

Roberto Silva: It's a weird rule and as far as I know only GT uses it. It's optional, games can be set up as timeout=loss of turn or =loss of game. It has several unforeseen consequences.

Does anyone know how the number of Brain King paying members today compares with the numbers from years back? Are there more today? Or fewer?

Aganju: well your opponent can then time out as well, and so on. Not sure if there's a limit or not.

rabbitoid: timeout = loss of turn? So if you get in 'Zugzwang', you simply time out, and it is your opponent's turn? That should blow up many games.

rabbitoid: Madness

ketchuplover: No, still ongoing. http://www.goldtoken.com/games/play?g=115447

The statistics are interesting. It's a 15-day game. For both players it's their only ongoing game. It started on 24 Oct 2001 when Goldtoken was barely 2 years old. , Only 254 moves so far.

Goldtoken shows think time (Fencer! PLEASE!!). The clocks read:
NLStardust : 432 days = about 1 year 2 months.
3334: 2219 days = about 10 years 7 months.
The last piece taken was on move 167, which was played in 2008.

Please note that the game is played under Glodtoken's queer "timeout = loss of turn" rule. 3334 timed out twice so far.

Purple:

3334 "won" that game

coan.net: Or that group game you suggested a while back. I think that would be fun.

Marshmud: That is why I keep mentioning it every once and awhile - I know he is busy with real life, but you never know when he might feel like sitting down for awhile and doing a little programming of a new game. Something like this, or maybe a 6 color logik game variant would be something he can do some-what easily.

Pedro Martínez: ROFL
................Pedro

Marshmud: I'm sure it would… If… :))

coan.net: On August 23 2010 you asked Fencer to implement that game and he said it would be easy.

coan.net: That would be a far more interesting version of Ludo.

coan.net:I like the idea of making a more interesting Game of Ludo although it surely would create a much longer version with more strategy involved.

crosseyed: I would love to see Fencer add Express Ludo to the site - the same game setup, with the following changes:

You can take a piece out of your home area with a 1 or 6

You roll 2 die EVERY TURN, and only 2 die - doesn't matter if you get a 6 and get an extra roll - just 2 roll each turn.

You can also use the 2 rolls like gammon - can use each die for different pieces, or same piece, in any order (but like gammon - have to use both if possible).

For Ludo being one of the most popular games on the site - and people liking games that are quicker - think it would be a very popular variant (and hopefully not very much extra programming.)

Artful Dodger: Think it is never right to have so many passes. And that is what puts me off play Ludo in here.

crosseyed: I got out a couple of times but kept getting sent back in. I had 53 moves, 35 of which were passes. Only 3 times did I roll a 6. Each piece was knocked back in. I think it's likely rare as it's never happened to me before. But it would be interesting to calculate the odds!

Artful Dodger: I kept saying that game had a bug.
So I won't play it now.

Aganju: I should get some sort of achievement recognition for that. Oh Fencer!!!

Aganju: I should have quit when I was behind!

Artful Dodger: sometimes you need to accept superior strategy. You are just not up to that level of play... ;-)