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4. April 2017, 14:23:29
Subject: Re: Really!?
furbster: I don't think it's necessary to play as cautious as that. There are ways to attack that lead to victory.

2. May 2016, 09:39:42
Subject: new Moderator
I tried several times to add SL-Mark and Sandoz as moderators, but now I found out they can't be because they're not paying members. Are/is there any paying member(s) willing to moderate this board? Let me know and I'll add you if the group agrees.

15. December 2015, 17:02:08
Subject: Re: Espionage Masters I
SL-Mark: I propsed both you and Sandoz as moderators. Since Sandoz declines because he stopped playing, it would be great if you want to become moderator! :)

1. December 2015, 16:51:27
Subject: Players quitting BK
SL-Bosse: I'll miss the idea of you on BK, eventhough we didn't play or speak anymore ;) I miss the days there was an active sabotage community. I really enjoyed that! :)

1. December 2015, 16:46:35
Subject: Moderator(s)
SL-Mark: Thank you. The espionage board was always friendly so there was never a problem :) Maybe both you and Sandoz want to become moderators? It's possible to have more than one moderator.

29. November 2015, 11:36:24
Subject: Re: Espionage Masters I
Modified by Chaos (29. November 2015, 11:39:21)
Sandoz: Dear Sandoz, since you seem to be the most active in the espionage community, maybe you should take over the role of moderator? I don't play the game anymore and sometimes it takes a few days before I even notice there's a new message on this board (yes, I feel ashamed). Would you like to be moderator of this messageboard? You can set a description and there are a few other possibilities.

29. November 2015, 11:33:51
Subject: Re:
Nothingness: So then we'll no loger hear from you here?You'll be missed!

29. November 2015, 11:31:27
Subject: Re: Espionage Masters I
SL-Bosse: stop playing espionage or stop playing at BK completely? I've stopped playing espionage quite some time ago, but am still playing other games at BK.

22. November 2015, 12:55:25
Subject: Re: Espionage Masters I
Congratulations, Bosse. Quite an achievement! A treu master of Espionage!

7. March 2014, 12:25:04
Subject: Re: prize tourney
SL-Mark: Indeed a big thanks to Nothingness!

3. January 2013, 10:10:03
Subject: Re: FYI..
Nothingness: Good Luck in all the things you do and a lot of happiness with your family! Not the same here without you, but your real life comes first!

2. December 2012, 22:27:46
Subject: Re: new league tournament
Just today the (hopefully) final round of Open Espionage League Brain prize Tourney (start april 2010) has started. I don't know if I feel like starting a new tournament, I don't believe in 'fast' anymore. Fisher's clock stil allows for vacations, right?

23. November 2012, 11:23:59
Subject: Re: System looses my position continously!?
Aganju: What do you do in step 2 'I modify it slightly'. I do not understand what you mean with that.

13. August 2012, 11:48:55
Subject: Re: prizes for new tourny
Celticjim: what tournament are you talking about?

19. July 2012, 13:47:35
Subject: Re: IYT competition?
Modified by Chaos (19. July 2012, 14:02:09)
SL-Mark:  "you had a beginners one a while ago. Who won?"

Resher and TheBlackKnight won The Espionage Beginner's Tournament

I was checking out if Resher and TheBlackKnight still played espionage (that was the main idea of my tournament, to get new talent into the League), and found out I'm still in a tournament dating 2010, waiting for the next round. Completely forgotten about it! Strange you cannot find it anywhere, should be nice to have it mentioned on your main page. Hmmm, I haven't played espionage for some while, can't seem to focuss on the game and play lousy, have to get back on track before the next round starts! Well, maybe that will not be untill 2013 ;)

16. July 2012, 12:55:10
Subject: Re: IYT competition?
SL-Mark: Your answer is almost the same as my answer to him, but I didn't want to speak for others, that's why I put the question out here. The League doesn't really exist here either, unfortunately. Could you give me the link to the 2012 Championship? I must say I had already forgotten about it, ahem... Quad doesn't like the interface here at BK. I don't like it either I must confess. And I don't like the overload of tournaments.

14. July 2012, 14:00:16
Subject: IYT competition?
Modified by Chaos (14. July 2012, 14:00:59)
Hi all, at IYT someone approached me to ask me about the League. He wants to set up a competition at IYT and wanted to know about the League, what worked and what not. I tried to answer as good as I could, adding I thought it would be hard with so many quitting/leaving to BK. 

He asked if there were players here who were willing to return if there was a serious competition going at IYT. I can't answer for you, so I'll ask the question here.

18. May 2012, 21:54:34
Subject: Re: Moonhippie
Sandoz: Moonhippie doesn't play here. At least in the past he couldn't make an account here because of the way he has access to the internet.

14. May 2012, 18:06:19
Subject: Re:
Celticjim: Sandoz isn't really new, haha. He used to play under the name 'Hageroff' (do I spell that right, Sandoz?) and was my first sabotage opponent at IYT, so if he's new, I'm a real newbee ;) I didn't get a message from Moonhippie either.

28. March 2012, 17:09:14
Subject: Re: moving
Nothingness: all the best & good luck in your new home!

27. December 2011, 19:04:40
Subject: Re: strategy guide
Nothingness: If you make a website I can put the link to it on this page.

4. December 2011, 11:05:08
Subject: Re: tournament time control
Nothingness: you can make it an invitation only tournament, only it will require more of your time.

28. November 2011, 11:09:16
Subject: Re: Requests to Fencer
Celticjim: my pieces were still able to move, but only towards the claws of my waiting opponent. So the bug wasn't relevant in this game.

28. November 2011, 10:40:21
Subject: Requests to Fencer
Celticjim: no, I haven't asked about the bug. Sorry! Some time ago I was busy trying to see what the consensus for a draw rule was, but didn't succeed. My plan was to combine the request for a draw rule with the request to change the bug. Now we also have the request we want to make for a diagonal version. At the moment I do not have the time to address people personally to get opinions or to formulate different options so players can vote for them. Maybe someone else can step up to take these tasks? You can put my name under the request for any of the diagonal variants, draw rule (50 or more noncapture moves) and the bug.

27. November 2011, 13:54:14
Subject: Re: No
Justaminute: I do not agree with you on that. The rule not to be able to move the piece back where you came from is one of the best rules of espionage in my opinion. I'm not a fan of defensive play, but this rule makes defensive play harder as well. One can corner an opponent by limiting their movement abilities using this rule. As has just been done to me...

18. August 2011, 15:18:50
Subject: Re:
Nothingness: I think the chances of getting the rule implemented are higher if the rule is simple, clear and same for all variants. If we choose for the 60 moves instead of 50, you also have the 10 moves extra in the beginning.

18. August 2011, 15:06:40
Subject: Re: DRAW RULE
Dark Prince: 60 moves of non-capture beginning at the start of the game, yes.

18. August 2011, 14:43:11
Subject: DRAW RULE

Dark Prince: ok, I thought you meant there should be a stalemate rule like in chess (draw). So we don't have to discuss stalemate.

Let's discuss the draw rule: what about my proposal?

18. August 2011, 13:37:46
Subject: Re: draw rule
Modified by Chaos (18. August 2011, 14:07:55)

Dark Prince: I guess you misunderstood me. I actually made a proposal to request a draw rule so you could conclude I think it's a good thing to install one. (my point to Nothingness was I don't see the point in reinstalling a committee, I think it's best to go to Fencer if someone doesn't accept the draw, since he can inforce it, my other point to Nothingness was that I don't see other draw situations needing a rule, much less needing a committee).

My question to everyone; is 60 moves ok? Or do we want 50 moves like in chess?

In my opinion there shouldn't be a stalemate rule in espionage; there's no king, no piece with a 'forbidden' move, like in chess. So if you put yourself in a position where you can only be captured or walk into a bomb, you've lost. It's not forbidden in espionage to do either.

18. August 2011, 13:28:54
Subject: Re:
Celticjim: Did you write your request directly to Fencer? I always get a fast, friendly and helpful answer.

18. August 2011, 13:20:26
Subject: Re: Espionage Masters I
Sandoz: You could post your tournament on the tournament messageboard as well.

18. August 2011, 13:16:39
Subject: Draw rule, PLEASE REACT
Modified by Chaos (18. August 2011, 13:33:07)

Nothingness: we can ask for a draw rule to be implemented in the espionage rules, and I would be happy to do so as soon as there is a consensus what exactly we want to ask for.

DRAW RULE PROPOSAL: a draw can be asked for after 60 moves of non-capture. (seems a simple and clear rule to me). I would like to hear from you all what you think of this, so I can make the request to Fencer.

A committe only has authority to those who choose to be part of the group listening to this committee, which seems to me to be the people who would already be reasonable. A committee would also have to have a draw rule to apply. How often does the situation occur anyway? I've never had such situation.

13. August 2011, 12:33:49

@CelticJim: send a message to Fencer:


Fencer is the one in charge. Usually he replies fast. I can't imagine he'll declines your requests.

12. August 2011, 13:05:45
Subject: Re: Tournament
Celticjim: What questions did you have? Maybe we can back them up as group so the chance is bigger Fencer will listen to it.

28. July 2011, 10:59:15

If chess has a 50 move rule and sabotage at IYT has it for some variants, maybe it's best to ask for at least 50 moves for all variants here? Same for all seems most clear to me. 60 moves is fine with me (as cookie monster asked for). Could everyone live with that?

@Dark Prince: With y I referred to your earlier post: To allow for slow starters, the 50 move rule could start at move 25 and the 35 move rule for smaller boards could start at move 15 for the open variations.
50 moves starting at move 50 and 35 moves starting at move 30 for the volcano variations.

Espionage (Dark Prince, 2011-04-13 01:17:20)

If we ask for such a starting point I suggest we ask for the same starting point for all variants.

27. July 2011, 18:25:12
Subject: Re: Draw rule

dAGGER: I think a minimum number of moves with no capture is a good rule to force a draw, if one of the opponents claims for it:
1) it is simple to remember for everyone
2) it helps preventing games to go on years, when only a player is very slow
3) if two skilled and defensive players agree on going on, it does not oblige to end up the game as a draw, if no opponent asks for it."

I agree with dAGGER completely. For this reason I think the rules shoudln't be too different between the various variants, best would be 1 and the same rule (x amount of noncapture moves maybe with an addition of beginning after move y)

24. July 2011, 12:04:13
Subject: Request for changed rule wording

We have to come to some sort of consensus if we want to make a request. Justaminute, Nothingness, dAGGER & others: do you agree with Dark Prince's wording?

How about the draw rule, we still didn't make a clear stand on what we want exactly. I would like to approach Fencer for both after we make a decision on what we want.

For the draw rule I suggest we vote on it. We make a short list of possible draw rules as mentioned before (including no draw rule), and vote untill one has a majority of votes. Is that an idea?

23. July 2011, 14:22:44
Subject: Re: ID quirk
Justaminute: within the move you have to move the first piece before you can place the second at the spot it vacated though. That makes it a sequel of moves, I think.

22. July 2011, 17:18:04
Subject: Re: ID quirk
Nothingness: It seems clear to me this way.Within a turn the moves are one after another - proven by the fact you can go to the spot just left by one of your other pieces. So within a turn a spy can identify (an) opponent's piece(s) before dying.

22. July 2011, 00:34:13
Subject: Re: ID quirk
Dark Prince: yes, you're right, that's consistent. Let's create what we think should be added to the rules (clarification moves within turn) and the draw issue, then I can go to Fencer to ask it to be included in the rules.

21. July 2011, 16:46:35
Subject: Re: bug (?) discovered
Nothingness: Moves cannot be simultanous, because you can move one of your pieces to a spot another piece of yours moved out of in the same turn. So indeed we should see it as a sequel of moves.

21. July 2011, 10:15:43
Subject: Re: bug (?) discovered
Dark Prince: You got a strong point! It would be good to have it mentioned explicitly in the rules though. We could at least ask for that along with a draw rule. I haven't asked for that yet since we didn't get to the point of the definite set of draw rules we wanted implemented.

20. July 2011, 14:00:06
Subject: Re: bug (?) discovered

Thom27: I guess it's the same effect as we discovered before with capturing an opponent's spy; if (in the same move) you place a piece next to the spy before capturing it, that piece will become visible for the opponent. As long as you know that it's no problem since you can avoid this by capturing the spy first.

What you mention seems to be unavoidedablt by your opponent. They won't even know you know what you captured. This seems to be a bug to me, does everyone agree on that? I suggest we should report it.

21. April 2011, 11:54:22
Subject: Re: refused Draw
Nothingness: I assumed 50 moves = 50 moves for each player.

19. April 2011, 22:57:33
Subject: Re: refused Draw

Dark Prince: I agree that a capture of a piece is an easy and objective criterium and a clear indication that the game is still in progress. I like your idea to have a 'starting point', only it would be nice to have 1 rule for all variants, to keep it clear.

Maybe 50 moves without capture starting after move 50 for the 3 volcano variants (the small volcano variant is often slower than Fast Espionage) and 50 moves after move 25 for Open and Small fast, to keep it simple?

12. April 2011, 17:38:49
Subject: Re: Draw
Dark Prince: We can request Fencer to add a draw rule to the rules. And since we already have the agreement of fair play regarding illegal moves, we may just as well add a draw situation to it in my opinion.

7. February 2011, 23:02:43
Subject: Re: List description
Dark Prince: Personally I'd prefer reversing the move if there are no side effects like identification (in whatever way) of pieces. Both players should agree ofcourse.

7. February 2011, 18:11:38
Subject: Re: illegal move
Pedro Martínez: Is it at all possible to have the move reversed? At BK some things seem to be impossible while they seem logical and wanted, like the next round of a tournament starting as soon as the winners of the previous round are known. In that case we have to wait untill all games of the previous round have finished, whether or not their outcome is relevant. That's why I wonder if it's possible to have a move reversed. My guess is it can't.

7. February 2011, 17:00:57
Subject: Re: illegal moves
For me the date is irrelevant. Fine by me if the rule applies to any of the games I'm playing already. But I'm perfectly ok with your definition if people prefer to have the dates added.

7. February 2011, 16:53:28
Subject: Re: illegal move
Pedro Martínez: as I understand they have agreed to resign the game. Best would be if the bug would be fixed ofcourse, or if we could at least get back to the previous move so the game could go one.

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