Double Choice Backgammon - each player has 2 sets of dice.
Triple Choice Backgammon - each player has 3 sets of dice.

Below - I'm explaining the triple choice.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

At the start of the game, each player has 3 sets of dice.

Each player rolls their 3 pairs, giving them 3 moves to choose from (where the other opponent can see their 3 choices)

example:

Player 1 has: 6-5, 3-3, and 5-1
Player 2 has: 6-2, 5-5, and 5-2

To start, the person with the "biggest" pair wins. (Player 1 has 6-5, so goes first. If there is a tie, it goes down the the second "biggest" pair.. and then third, and if all 3 match - then re-roll everything)

First player can choose which one of the pairs of dice to use for their move. So for example, player 1 decides to use the 3-3, and makes their move. They then re-roll ONLY the dice that were used (leaving the 2 unused there), and then their turn is over.

... and so on and so on.

= = = =
Other rules:
If possible, you have to pick a pair that will allow you to use BOTH dice. (If one of the dice has a 6 and you can move 6, then you can't pick that pair if another pair allows you to use both dice)

If you can only use 1 dice from all rolls, you have to use the higher of the 2 numbers.

If you can't move with any of your dice, you can pick 1 pair to re-roll. After the re-roll, your turn is over and you can then use that re-roll on your next turn.

Most everything else would be similar to backgammon. What this game adds is a lot more strategy - since not only do you have multiple things to choose to do each turn, you can also see all possible moves your opponent has to make.

Thad: I don't think Fencer minds, but be aware that using hexkid's stuff is "outside" of the brainking system, so let say if it messes something up - like resigns a game automatically, it is not something that Fencer is responsible for or would fix - BUT that is just an extreme example - hexkid & others have been testing their system for awhile now..... but it is a case of "use at your own risk".

OK, forget what I said - I was wrong. Just quickly looked, and what I was thinking of is when you make an offer to double, you get a second box to make sure.

When you accept and decline, it is like you said - once wrong click and opps. So forget what I said, I like the request also - someway to make sure you don't lose a game because of a stupid accedent - and you lose a game because you got beat like it should be.

nabla: BEFORE you submit, you can cancel - I'm pretty sure. So if you make a mistake when you click accept/decline, you get a text box to "submit" your move - at that point, I'm almost positive there is a cancel option.

... will have to wait until someone doubles me in a game to make sure I know what I'm talking about.... since I might be wrong.

nabla: Agree 100% with your second request. Even for my own games. Since I play a mix of all the gammon games, I may come across a race game that I still have one on the bar I don't have to move, but my instinct is when I see 1 or 2 pieces on the bar, to get them out before doing anything else. If I took an extra 5 seconds, I would see it's a race game and I might be able to make beter moves elsewhere - but many times I don't take the extra 5 seconds.

nabla: I don't have a game right in front of me, but isn't it already a 2 step process>

That is you accept or decline the double.

Then after that, the text box comes where you can type and submit the move. (or cancel the decision and go back to accept/reject again?

Some other Gammon variant suggestions I have, but of course each would take more programming and such so would be more time to make are:

1) A mix between Tabula gammon and Russian Gammon. Basicly like "race", all pieces start off the board - BOTH players race the same direction around the board, bring in their pieces in the same area - can only move their pieces 1/2 way around the board until all of their pieces have entered the board - 2 dice only - no special double rules - rest of the rules like current gammon/race rules.

2) Domino-Gammon - I have since seen some other versions talked about, but linked are the rules that I have made up for the game.

Plus is was recently suggestion on the feature request board, these:

Plakoto - http://www.bkgm.com/variants/Plakoto.html

Plakoto Express (well not requestion, but will include it here) - http://www.bkgm.com/variants/PlakotoExpress.html

Moultezim - http://www.bkgm.com/variants/Moultezim.html

jodie_7_4: There is some links (well pointed to some links) near the top of the page.

http://brainking.com/en/Board?bc=26&ngi=342190

I'm not sure if any of those links are geared towards beginners - but if anyone has any links to add to that list, please share & I can add them.

alanback: Should have taken a longer look at it - YES, I would have done exactly what you did if it meant sending the piece to the bar (did not notice that before)

IF the piece was already on the bar (like I thought before), then I would have closed the 5 space - but if it meant sending the piece to the bar, then that almost always is more helpful then a 4-in-a-row block.

alanback: I would have made the 5 point which would have put 4 in a row the opponent would have to "jump" over when he got out. At least that is my quick opinion when I look at that move.

Good Luck
On the game to all of my
Opponenets who are playing me
Daily.

Luckly this fun game of gammon
Unlike
Chess gives me a good chance of the occasional
Kind of game that I like.

What Thad said below
Is something
That I agree with, and
Hopefully some day we can see

That happen.
However I don't think it is
About to happen any time soon, so
Too bad for that.

grenv: They are only hurting themselves by delaying a lose game - since as I understand ratings, if you win a game, then lose a game - you will end up with a worse rating then if you would lose a game first, then win a game.

So if you know you are going to lose, it's beter for your rating to get them over and counted as quickly as possible. (At least this is what I've been told - I haven't done the math myself to back it up)

JMD & NIRVANA: I did not mean to make it sound like it was wrong to switch accounts, just wanted to point out that with your old account, when you were an active player (before the fall out at the end), at the best rating, you were only a top 15 player or so.

I see it all the time - someone wins a few games, sometimes as little as 4 and has the highest rating. Good luck in trying to stay up there.

JMD & NIRVANA: But the account you used before your current one, you were only in the top 15 or so at your best. http://brainking.com/en/BKRGraph?u=9213&tp=26

Sure, keep changing user accounts and get a few lucky wins can easly put you on top - which is why there is established ratings to beter rate people. Most sites use 400 games to get an established backgammon rating, here it is only 25 - which you have not made it to yet with your new account.

Hrqls: I don't know any stats about a position like that or not, but in my opinion - I would not have taken the double either.

Your opponent could easly close up your only opening (even with a 7 - which as I understand the most common dice roll) - or at the very least, moved his piece so you could not land on him.

You would have needed luck, too much lunk in my opinion to accept it.

Hrqls: You should have been able to offer a double - up until the time you hit "roll dice", which after that you would not be able to - but before that, you should have had the option.

Czuch Chuckers: I believe it just automaticly rolls again and you never see it - so the dice you first see will never be doubles.

In a backgammon game (multi-point / multi-win games)which does NOT use the cube, a resign will only cost you 1 point - no matter where your pieces are at.

In a backgammon game which DOES use the cube, but the cube has not been turned yet, it can cost you anywhere between 1-3 points depening on where your pieces are left on the board.

This is the backgammon board, lets try to keep our heated discussions on how the dice cheat people. :-)

I have removed all the off-topic posts - please do not be offended if I removed one of yours even if you were trying to help, but they did not make much since once I removed the original posts. I left Matarilevich's post below since it is very good advice for anyone that is having a problem with another user to place them on their Blocked users list.

Plus if you have someone as a blocked users, you will no longer see in-game chat from the person. (They can continue to write and think they are writting to you, but you will no longer have to read it.)

Thanks.

alanback: Probable number of completed games.

(Estimated completed games totals - found on the game rules of each page)

Back = 178,000+
Hyper = 156,000
Nack = 36,000
Race = 34,000
Crowded = 38,000
Anti = 5,500

Rose: But it is nice when it works in your favour and the other player has to leave open a space when they use both dice! <grin>

Kipling: Your link does not work for me - for some reason it is inserting an extra http://brainking.com/en/ before it - giving me an invalid link.

Kipling: Link: http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=1260088

Yes, tonyh resigned when he already had 1 piece off the board, meaning the value of the game is what is one the double cube (2 points)

Pythagoras: Well the protection is that the system told him that he would lose 6 points if you accepted the resign, so that is already in place. (resigning right away without that second screen to tell them what they will lose would be unprotected.)

Czuch Chuckers: Sorry, not really "cheating" - but "taking advantage" or "bad sportsmanship" would be beter words I guess - and I have seen plently of people who are not afraid to do that.

grenv: Chess is not really a good comparason since there is not different levels that you can win by. That is if you got more points by capturing a queen first or something like that. It is either win or lose.

grenv: I understand that it can speed things up, but (at least in my opinion) when you weigh that against that this is a game site that is full of backgammon players who possible does not know all the rules and could easily be cheated by others that do - I would rather see it how it is then to have the option of people trying to take advantage of others by trying to resign for less points then they should.

again - just my opinion.

playBunny: Just to throw my opinion in, I do not think that the implementation is incorrect just because other sites does it differently - I actually think how Fencer does it makes it easier for users not to try to cheat others.

I know on DailyGammon, some will offer a single resign for less points then what they will probable lose to newer users in the hopes of cheating people out of points.

How it is here, it automaticly looks at the "worse case" of how many points you could lose (gammon, backgammon). If you are so far behind that you are in the backgammon position, it would be silly for the other person to accept anything less then that. And if you are close to getting one of your own men off, then it only takes a few more moves then offer your resign for the single points.

(hence, as a more advanced gammon player, I like how dailygammon does it since it allows users to have more control on what is offered - but at the same time, some of the things that dailygammon does "scares" away newer gammon players, which is why I personally like how BrainKing does it.)

- side note -

For anyone else who is between 92-100% confused with all the percentages being thrown out - you are not alone. Maybe if I took a some time to really read what is all being said it might make me a beter player - but I have a simple test - if I think I still have a good chance to win - accept double. If I think I have a good chance to lose - deny the double. Depending on how many points are left - how close the match is can help determin if I want to take bigger chances or not.

Ok, just wanted to get that off my chest. Carry on with all the percentage talk... :-)

Hrqls: The tournament is still decided by the won total match, and not each game - I kind of like how it shows for the players stats each game

In Vikings game, they got 4 points since the cube was doubled and the person who resigned did not have any pieces off the board.

In Hrqls game - only 1 point since the person who resigned already had a piece off the board.

WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN (in my opinion): With Anti Backgammon

Lets say someone moves all their pieces off the board - it needs to look at how many points they would get if it was regular backgammon, then just give those points to the opponent with pieces still on the board.

Lets say someone resigns. First the computer needs to "pretend" that the person that resigned has won the game (of regular backgammon), and calculate how many points they would get if they actually moved all their pieces off the board. (regular, gammon, backgammon) - then give those points to the opponent with pieces still on the board.

grenv: What I do not understand is that I thought a game had to be at least 4 moves to count toward a rating.

I know some of this is already covered, but my thoughts in my own words on the subject.

If your opponent only has 1 more point to win the match, then for you - it is beter to double early so the game with worth 2 points so if you do win, you will win twice as many points. (If you lose - well no mater if it is worth 1 or 2 points, you will lose the match.)

If your opponent only has 1 more point to win the match, and lets say you wait for a few moves into the game before you double - then your opponent has the basicly "free" oppertunity to either accept or deny the double and get to play again - and only giving you 1 point. That is your opponent only needs 1 point to win, and if he is already in a losing position, there is no point in him accepting a double - it is beter to just give you the point and start the next game. (Where as if you doubled early, he would already be in the losing game worth 2 points)

(This is of course after the Crawford match where 1 game is played without the cube)

txaggie: Well I personally don't need a checkmark, or anything - even though I may make mistakes and hit a button too quick - I can just as easly check a box and click too fast, or scrool through 2 pages and click buttons too quickly also. So for me, I would rather just keep things how they are.

BUT if anything is done, I would rather see a checkmark confirmation box next to the button rather then see a whole new page saying "Are you sure..."

I would rather see a checkmark option next to the buttons then another whole page loading to ask me the same question again.

Or better yet, make it an option to have the checkmark's there for the players who like the site to protect them from their own mistakes. :-)

alanback: If Backgammon ratings were not that close, I would be in that list.

I have a 2120 rating for 151st place - but 50th place is only at a 2171 - not too much of a difference.

A little more work, I can be on that list. (1935.5 avg for the 4 games)

I thought there was 5 "positive" gammon games

Backgammon

Nackgammon

Hypergammon

Crowded Backgammon

Backgammon Race

The first Hyper21 tournament is getting ready to start in a few hours with 32 players signed up - yea!

Since it so popular, I've created the second tournament

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=12092&tri=68060&trnst=0

It is a Hyper Backgammon tournament using the cube to 21 points. Since Hyper Backgammon can be a quick game, it is perfect to use the 21 point cube with it. Open to everyone. Set to start around November 20th. Good Luck!

I think BG Race would have the least amount of "luck" since you can make your own strategy of weather to try to make a "block" to keep your opponenet from advancing, or trying to "race" quickly to the other side, or keep some pieces on the bar to keep your opponenet from advancing too quickly to your home area - just so many more options and strategies to choose from allow you to quickly adapt to good/bad dice rolls.

Andersp: yea, but it automaticly takes me to the english version. Plus I'm unable to see your "resign" page since it is not my game.

So I clicked on "resign" for one of my games and it was still in black. (then clicked to continue in game and not resign)

Andersp: just checked - not red for me (english)

Rose: For cube beginners, I like to think of a person who doubles as saying "Hey, I think I can win the game - would you like to make the game worth twice as much?"

Then the opponenet can then either say (Accept) "I think I still have a good chance to win also, sure lets make the game worth twice as much and continue to play.

or the opponenet can say (reject) "I think you are right and will win the game also. I will give you this game and lets move on to the next" (with the value of the game at the cube value before the double offer)

At least that is the basics of it. As you play, there are many other little tips and tricks which will help as you play on. (Like if you think you are going to win with a gammon/backgammon, you should not double - or if it is past the crawford round and your opponent is 1 point away you should always double right away, etc..... things which will help your game, but not as important to learn how to start using the cube.)

Hrqls: Like Hrqls - there might be a time like the 1 piece you have on the bar is your very last piece on the board, and you even though no dice roll will help you, you may still double since you think you can break lose and move your pieces around the board before your opponenet can get all their pieces in. At least I would probable double if I was in that situation.

Vikings: 2 different games will be 2 completly different matchs.

What happens in one of the games has nothing to do with the other game.

So for example a tournament is set up for the 2 game match backgammon, with the 5 point cube.

Player A will get 2 games - both worth 5 points each with player B. If they are in danger of losing one, and winning the other - there would be no advantage to just slowing down on one.

Vikings: Just more games - people who like to play games should like it.

The chance of someone holding up a game is the same if it is 1 game or 2 game tournament.

Please stop it. This is the Backgammon board to talk about Backgammon issues.

Pedro Martínez: I would suggest that rules be writen just for anti-backgammon since it can be confusing.

Well the rule for anti is the object of the game is opposet.

So the rules for regular backgammon are:
# Single game (1 point) - the winner's opponent has borne off at least one piece.
# Gammon (2 points) - the opponent hasn't borne off any pieces.
# Backgammon (3 points) - the opponent hasn't borne off any pieces and still has some pieces either on the bar or in the winner's home area (the six pipes where the winner bears off own pieces).

So i would almost have to say that instead of the "winners opponent", it should be just winner.

So I guess what the "program" should do is calculate how much it would normally give to the opponent (or the person who removed all their pieces first), then instead of giving them the points - the other player should get them.

= = = = =

Another suggestion:

Would be nice if the tournament section that has 0 for loses and 1's for wins - if instead of 1's, it lists how many points were won for that game. Would make it quicker to see who is close to winning & losing.

Fencer: Maybe it would help if the "warning - you will lose X points..." was 1 font bigger - and/or a different color to help make it a little more eye catching.

alanback: You yourself can click the resign button - a warning will come up saying how many points you will lose, and then you will either confirm the resign, or keep playing.

You can test this yourself - just make sure you click on "keep playing" so you do not actually resign a game.

Wow - 10 cube choices (11 if you count 1 as a single game)

6 types of gammon games

60 new (66 total) rating charts - that is a lot. Ladders will be cool once those are introduced (even though I don't think we need all 11 choices for each game - maybe 1, 3, 5, 9, 14, 21) or something would be enough for the ladder if they are seperate.

grenv: I have already been doing that in the cube tournament I create - but would be nice if by some way if it is a tournament with a cube, the default ending with 2 players will be the same since I'm sure I will forget to change the option in both places sooner or later.