ok i really never got into backgammon. but i never undertood the cube? what is its purpose and how does it work. ive read many things in the rules but nothign really explains it. If i read it correctly you must accept a roll or you lose the game. but then what purpose do pieces on the board mean? if im down 120 pips to 1, i can say Double and win? that makes no sense. little help would be great thanks.

bouncybouncy: I didn't say you were cheating. However if one player moves slowly it is the OTHER player who is going to suffer. Or more accurately the player whose turn it is when sleep overcomes him/her will lose. This doesn't seem fair.

Even if I'm playing someone I know is moving every minute I still wouldn't set up 1 hour moves in case we don't finish before something comes up.

I would agree with Alan. If I were doing these kinds of games I would want to know that my opponent is aware of how it works and what's required in terms of a time commitment. There have been countless posts on the BK board of people - including experienced BKers - expressing "What does .. mean?" and "Oh, I didn't know that" with regard to the clocks. With newcomers to the site they don't even know to ask the questions.

There's one player (in Linetris) who delights in winning games against newcomers who don't know that they must stick to the game like glue or lose it. What a great welcome he gives them to the site; their first experience here is to get shafted!

For me it wouldn't be fun or acceptable for anyone to lose to me because of the time. Each such win would be a cause for regret if I could have helped the opponent avoid it. Clear notice in the game invitation would be one part of that. With a new opponent I'd ask them on the first move what they understand about the clock and time constraints. I'd do it then so that I could delete the game if it turns out that they didn't realise. In other words I'd make it my responsibility, not theirs, to avoid winning because of the clock.

That's not to say that you should, just that I would. Part of it is that I care about my opponents but another part is that I care about my games stats. A 66% winning ratio isn't of such value if it includes too many non-playing wins. Others don't care two hoots about their stats. ;-)

alanback: A player p;icked up an hour game of mine from the waiitng room, we played the game then he asked ifi would play another with him, i said yes but only if it wasnt an hour limit, becasue i was going out, so he sent me a day limit. Now, surely its common sense, to check your time limits before you accept, whether the invitation is sent directly to you or is picked up in the waiting room.

bouncybouncy:  Probably true.  Since I generally don't pick up games in the waiting room, I don't have enough experience to know whether the time limits are obvious.  I have occasionally carelessly accepted an invitation sent directly to me with short time limits, but so far I have always noticed it in time to delete the game. 

alanback bouncybouncy: I agree with these two posts.

alanback: The warning is in the time though isnt it. All the games that are in the "waiting room" clearly state the time limit which that particular game will run, surely it is up to the person to carefully check the time of the game before they accept it.

bouncybouncy:  It's certainly not cheating if both players are aware of the time limits and agree to them.  Since extremely short time limits are not "normal" on this server, I think it is good practice to call the opponent's attention to them, perhaps in the title of the game.  Otherwise, a person could accept a game inadvertently under circumstances where they would have to time out, presumably spoiling the game for both sides.  After all, we don't play games primarily to win them, but to enjoy the company and competition. 

Whether it's "cheating" to set up games without a warning is a matter of opinion.  I think it's unfair if it operates as a trap for the unwary.

"Have Fun": They arent bothering me in the slightest

grenv: Yes, but they know the time limit, if they decide to take slow moves, then it is their problem not mine. So if i set up a load of one hou games, and say a few time out, does that make me a cheat then ???

bouncybouncy: Don't let these hot shots get to you here:)

bouncybouncy: Yes, I guess if you moved quickly, but all it would take is a couple of slow moves to throw the opponent off. I would think a fisher game with a 6 hour limit (no bonus) would achieve the same with no possibility of being screwed.

alanback: Oh yes, sorry he did time out, but he knew the playtime, but all the others were played within the limit

grenv: LOL how could you ever guess that he he LOL:)

bouncybouncy:  I just looked at your games from today, and the very first one I looked at (also the most recent) was a timeout by your opponent.

Earlier today i set up 9 games all with one hour time limits, they were all played, and nobody timed out.

DARK PHOENIX: How can you play a game of backgammon with 1 hour limits? Chances are you would need sleep before the game finished, so the winner is just the person who stays awake the longest.

Um!! Huh!! Let Fencer deal with it.

"Have Fun": Um ... what's the Dice?

"Have Fun": Huh?

Its the Dice.Time has nothing to do with it.Sure if you time out you no how you lost.Opponents tell me Oh I just got lucky.Thats a bunch of CRAP.I don't mind loosing a game or 2 but not game afer game Thats what i call CHEATING

Walter Montego:  In this case, Fencer has apparently drawn his conclusions, and I have no reason to disagree.

alanback: The Fischer clock works quite well at eliminating the use of the clock to a player's advantage. The time parameters chosen make a difference. You can start with some amount of time which doesn't matter too much. The bonus time selected will in a many move game be near the average time per move. The maximum when reached will be the most time one player can take between moves during a game. If you don't move for awhile your time will drop as it does with the other timing methods. To get more time for your clock you have to move. That's what the bonus does. None of this wait until the last minute and then get 7 days to move again. You'll only get the bonus time if you try that. Of course if the bonus is set high at 7 days that's what it'll be. You have to experiment and find the times you like for your favorite pace.

If you see 5/1.6/15 it means a starting time of 5 days, a bonus time of 1 day 6 hours, and a maximum time on your clock of 15 days. I use these parameters or similar ones a lot. It comes out to about 8 moves per 10 days not counting your initial 5 day start. The maximum 15 days can be reached with 8 or 9 moves in two days from the start. This gives either player the abilty to leave for two weeks without timing out if he can just make a few moves in his game. Obviously both players could be online and finish a game in less than an hour. If one person plays slower than 1 move every 30 hours, he'll lose time and then have to start moving faster for fear of timing out. There's plenty of other time parameters you can use too. Depends on how you like the game to progress. I would certainly recommend using a Fischer clock for any tournament as it keeps the slow and fast players more or less together, especially when compared to the use of the standard vacation timing method. For playing one on one, it's up to how you and your opponent get along or want the game to go. Fof friends or people you've played many games with, you'll know what you like. Newer opponents will depend on yourself and what time limits you like until you've played a few times.

I didn't see playBunny say he wouldn't play him, just that he was complaining about how this person happened to acheive some of his victories from how it appears. The player did defend himself here, so maybe there's more to it. You know the trouble caused by making assumptions based on incomplete data. None of the others listed have spoken up, so perhaps there's a good reason for Fencer's actions concerning them. Fencer can see every game and draw his own conclusions about the appropriateness of how someone is conducting their games.

As I've said in the past, I will not play games where a major part of the startegy is the use of the clock to win. You said so for yourself, but there are plenty of people that like having the clock as part of the game. It is certainly within the rules to use the clock in this manner, even if I disapprove of it.

alanback: LOL and i hope he gets the rest of them on this SITE.

DARK PHOENIX:  The Bunny is mighty, but not almighty.  Only Fencer has the power of life and death over your account.

Then , Can Bunny restart my BKR rating in Backgammon ??( Delete my games in Backgammon )

Walter Montego:  I can't imagine ever agreeing to a 1-hour game with an opponent I knew was manipulating the system.  Perhaps a 5-minute game, so there could be some assurance that the game would be completed in a reasonable time.  I don't know how Fisher clock games work, but that might be a solution also.

Of course, PB has expressed no interest in playing a match of any sort against this opponent.

alanback: Maybe playBunny will agree to a one hour game, or they could certainly play with longer time limits. Maybe a series of games, eh?

DARK PHOENIX:  In my opinion inviting a player to a game with a 1-hour time limit without clearly warning him of the unusual terms is just as much cheating as is collusion over ratings.  In both cases the win is not earned by good play but by extraneous factors manipulated by the "winner".  Which is not necessarily to say that I believe you.

I don't cheat ... These games was lucky for me ... My opponent don"t see time in a game ( it was 1 hour per move ) and If he log out and don't log in this hour I won this gme ... Meabe in your eyes I'm look like cheater but I don't ... I have too lucky in these games ... If You can Bunny we could play Backgammon ... You will see that I 'm not a cheater ... Could you write private message ??

alanback: I think he will play you. Maybe lower your BKR.That will get LL a little closer to you;)

"Have Fun": Lol. It could be said that it has a lot of RRRs. ;o)

alanback: LOL now what was the... original of idiom;) ME not being a educated man LOL;)

Pedro Martínez:  More of a euphemism ... the original is the idiom ;-)

playBunny: "pain in the bum", LOL, what a lovely idiom....:)))

alanback: I doubt that Fencer will change any of the actual BKRs. It's probably too complicated a web to unravel and when Fencer eventual gives us a real rating system and recalculates all the BKR histories (lol, are you reading this Filip?! ), having to program in such anomalies would be a real pain in the bum, I expect.

It is a pity that they've affected other's ratings, especially the lower rated players who've been leeched from, but hopefully the fact that they've no longer got any public incentive will mean that they'll stop playing that game in the future. What I'm not sure of is whether Fencer sent them a message or simply implemented the chart ban.

playBunny:  That's interesting, and pitiful.  It doesn't appear that florin has been stripped of his BKR -- which is relevant to me since I challenged him when he reached #1.  I wonder what will happen with that match.

"Have Fun": To be honest, i never thought people could be like that, maybe i am just the type who like to see the best in everybody, how wrong can we be aye

bouncybouncy: It has got unreal the amount of CHEATERS on this SITE!!!

playBunny: ah right, ok i understand now, I did have florin on block anyway, but that was for a different reason. I have been playing laurentiu for some time, but he will now go on my blocked lisyt. I cant be bothered with people like this.

bouncybouncy: Each of those links shows the Finished Games list. If you look down the Number of Moves colums you'll see lots of games with very few moves. Open any of these and you'll see that it's been resigned. All those resignations pump up the rating of the "winner".

Looking at florin's list you can see that he's been getting a monthly boost from hitlerica since June. That took him to #1 on the ranking table recently which is when his shenanigans became noticeable. DARK PHOENIX was the newest #1 until this morning. It was easy to see that he'd been playing the same game along with his two accomplices.

playBunny: Excuse my ignorance, but how do u know when somebody is a cheat or not?

A feather in the cap for Fencer. He's just made the first use of a new "Ban From Charts" feature and has removed two sets of rating cheats from the charts!

Group 1 - ROMANIA, laurentiu, florin, ROMANIAN Boy, hitlerica

Group 2 - DARK PHOENIX, el diabolique, zapdos

LionsLair and Hrqls:  Thanks very much.  I'm already about to drop perilously close to #6 in Nack, so success is a temporary and relative quantity!

alanback: congrats! looks like you are setting the bar pretty high! I'll need to tighten up my boot straps and play a bit harder to catch you...
...again, well done! :o)

alanback: wow! very well done!

Well, however temporarily, I have reached LionsLair's goal of being in the top 5 in all 6 gammon variants.  Despite my previous statements, I'm not claiming to be the best in any of them, but perhaps the best all-around gammon player for the moment?

LionsLair: LOL never a truer word said.There is not many that say on top for very long.Thats what keeps all of us from trying:)

alanback: 6th!, now thats amazing!! you are who I am trying to catch!, or at least concidered to be in the same class as yourself, I have read a few of your articles over the years and have learned alot from you... you have made me challenge myself to be a world class gammon player...
...a BKR of at least 2000 is quite an accomplishment as well, ... I (being the student) will have to try to accomplish this as well... I love a challenge!
...congrats on your accomplishments... and keep an eye out, one day the student may best the teacher! ;o)