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27. December 2008, 08:21:28
AlliumCepa 
Subject: Re:
grenv: Quote №1: "In this case he will be twice as slow because he has twice as many games"
That's not true. You can't automatically assume that. You don't know how this player will perform with 200 games. All you can tell for sure is how he actually did so far, but not how he will do from now on. Maybe this player will get organized and starts playing even more than before, bringing his AR to say... 2! Why not? You can't say it's impossible. What if those first 100 games are "leftovers" from old 2005-2006 "30-days-per-move" tournaments and the poor guy is stucked with last-minute-moving oponents and it isn't really his fault for his low AR. Maybe he simply has no chance to play faster because he has to wait for his oponents to move. What if those new 100 games are his favourite kind of game and he spends all day clicking from now on?

How about the oposite case? Say we have a relatively quick player. But (such things happen all the time) poor guy gets hospitalized and his AR begins to suffer. In this case we should implement not a single number (the AR), but a graph (!) showing how a player's AR changes.

I see your idea is to display *current* ability. But you can't do that on a turn based game site where real people participate. They eat, sleep, take a p00p, do shopping etc. These are not machines that spend 24 hours per day in clicking. Instead, all we have different styles of playing. Some get early in the morning and do 20-30 clicks. Some use their lunch break. Some people suffer from insomnia and play all night. Others can afford to play all day... How can be defined their *current* speed?

Again, I repeat: do not assume. The most honest thing we should do is to quote how this guy has been doing so far.

Quote №2: "I would argue "# of moves per day" implies an average"
Yes, you could argue. But again, you wouldn't be right. If you really meant it, you should say it. I tried discreetly to skip this issue, but since you insist showing...

Forget it. I'm not going to argue with you. I'm tired of this.

27. December 2008, 08:48:47
grenv 
Subject: Re:
AlliumCepa: a graph is just a series of results, so my formula could certainly be graphed if you want to show history.

It isn't meant to be clairvoyant, so while doubling the number of games *may* not mean twice as slow, it's the best guess with the available data. Of course you could discount time where no moves are available if you want to be more accurate -
moves made / time with at least one move available, over, say, the last month.

"moves per day" = moves / days. It *is* an average. Otherwise I would say "moves made today" or something like that.

27. December 2008, 14:16:33
playBunny 
Subject: Re: Speed indicators
Modified by playBunny (27. December 2008, 14:17:23)
Some considerations:

Whatever metric is chosen, there ought to be one for each type of game, or the games should be broken into categories. Ludo can be played in an instant but chess can take a while to ponder. A moves per day metric could penalise someone who likes to bash out a game or two of Ludo if they ponder long and hard in their chess games.

The metric also needs to be computationally cheap. If, like a moving average, it requires a fair bit of data manipulation per move then it's probably not a good idea. If, like a graph, it requires a lot of storage, ie. values for each move, then it's also very expensive. Bear in mind that the ratings graphs are just a couple of data per match. The utility/cost value for the speed graph would be very low, for all that it's an interesting graph at times.

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