I recently played anti line 4 at another site, and my opponent played using the mirror-image strategy. (I was player 1). I know there MUST be away to get around that, otherwise player 2 would just always win using that strategy.. However, for some reason I spaced it, and had no idea how to counter it, and lost of course. Can someone please remind me how to counter that strategy in anti?

rod03801: Aim for a (symmetric) position where there is no line of four on the complete board. Then white wins.

rod03801: An example

So, the only way to counter this strategy is to fill up the board with no one winning, which is a win for white? (LOL, I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say)

Would someone be willing to play out a game of anti with me as black, using the mirror image strategy, and show me how you, as white, get out of it? It will make more sense to me if I am actually playing it out. Unrated/Uncounted, if you prefer.

BuilderQ: Thanks for that lol, yeh i didn't really know how to play when i played this one, i think it was my first game or one not long after i started playing it

rod03801: If your offer hasn't been taken yet, go ahead and invite me.

white is player 1 .. player 2 is the only one who can use the mirror strategy .. but when doing that until the end he will lose as noone will make 4 .. so player 1 wins

this makes the mirror strategy a losing strategy

Hrqls: Yes, but the mirror strategy can prove successful on occasion, even against the best: http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=760289&i=52

BuilderQ: ah i see ... nice

so its up to player 1 (white) to make sure that he wont create a 4 .... as he can see easily he is being mirrored he can play the game all by himself .. and force his opponent to follow his plans (or stop the mirroring)

does a player win when he places more than 4 pieces in a row ?

Hrqls: Yes

BuilderQ: I think Pente requires exactly five in a row though, right?

ColonelCrockett: According to the rules, no: "The object is to place 5 or more pieces in a solid row..."

BuilderQ: hmmm . . . I was too lazy to look (LOL) . . . I could have sworn that there was a game on BK that required a specific number of tokens be placed in a row, perhaps Hasami Shogi? I'm still too lazy to look, ;)

ColonelCrockett: The rules for Pro Five in Line and Swap Five in Line explicitly note that exactly five must be placed in a row. Hasami Shogi may also follow this restriction, but the rules do not refer to such a situation.

Ah, I see Fencer has clarified that more than five win on the Hasami Shogi board.

BuilderQ: I gave two wrong answers in a row . . . a reward for my laziness . . . LOL

BuilderQ: thanks :)

it's cool as this site. sorry for my new english!

I need 3 more spider line 4 players please!

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=13892&tri=87703&trnst=0

I was thinking that the Line4 players on this site weren't very active, but then I realized I was wrong when I noticed this epic series of games between Jeckelchen and jeckel. Their playing styles have become so refined that they know if they should resign by the second move! Wouldn't this site be more interesting if all players were as busy?

BuilderQ:

Do you like to play line games or want to learn? If you do, you should join the Official Lines Fellowship! We have line teams for almost every game as well as tourneys coming more and more! Sign up if you would like to join for teams, tourneys, lots of games, and the chance to better your game!

In this Spider Linetris game, why is the A column remaining full?

BuilderQ: that's a very good question. I reread the rules and it should definitely disappear . . . very strange.

BuilderQ: Because only one line can disappear after a move, not two.

Fencer: I think that situation should be added to the rules.

I would think that if a "full" line moves into one of the edge rows, that it too should be removed. At least that is what I would think should happen.

Fencer: Two lines can disappear after a move in a corner which completes two perpendicular rows, so I had thought the same applied to parallel rows. The way it is now, sides of the board can become "blocked" and the game's dynamic aspect is reduced. Still, BrainKing is the only site to have this game, so there is no precedent to contradict your method, and maybe I'm just annoyed at losing. :)

Still, have you ever played Tetris?

Fencer: I think everyone read "between the lines" of the rules and thought that every full line disappears. I think it should be either specified in the rules (as BBW said) or it should be changed to reflect the thoughts of BuilderQ and myself. I'm not saying to go one way or the other (as a disinterested party) but I think leaving the ambiguity will just cause more problems in the future.

The rules for "Pro Line4" (all variants) are the same as the respective rule for the standard Line4 variant except that 5-in-a-row does not make a win.

If I and Jason were playing "Pro Linetris", this game wouldn't have already ended (and I might win it too).

hexkid: I've never heard of this Pro Line4 being played anywhere. Incidentally, in that game you linked to, I note that Jason does have a diagonal four in a row in addition to the horizontal five in a row.

just curious, how many of you play regular connect four (7x6 board) ?

entr0py: Currently, all the sites I regularly play at use an 8x8 board, as BrainKing does. I have played other sizes in the past, including 7x6; see here for a list of sites offering connect four.

John Tromp's website does not list a result for 8x8. I'm wondering, does anyone know who is supposed to win? 1st player, 2nd player, or draw? My guess is 2nd player, though I haven't studied 8x8 in much depth yet.

Starting March 28--Spider Line 4
Spiders #9--Spider Line 4

Here's an interesting site with an extensive list of connect four programs.

BuilderQ: too bad its not in english

Scheduled start date is May 18.

Spiders #10!!! Spider Line 4

How about Cylinder line 4 or Sphere Spider Line 4?

joshi tm: Cylinder line4 would be interesting I think.
With Sphere Spider Line4 I have the feeling that it would be even more unbalanced than Spider Line4 - but that is just a feeling, I can't back that up theoretically ;)

Gordon Shumway: I know that was said already but the CL4 is not tried.

joshi tm: I can imagine CL4 to be very interesting and playable. It would just make every column even in value, I don't know if this would give white more or less advantage, but I don't think I'd care too much ;) The L4 games all are in favor of white, but I like them anyway.

Cylinder Line4 is missing on BrainKing - let's get it! And in the end, Sphere Spider Line4 might be big fun too :)

Gordon Shumway: Cylinder Line4 is on another site, and it is pretty fun - would be a nice addition here also.

Sphere Spider Line 4 would be strange - since you can place a piece on a wall - but in reality the wall is not there... so would it play just like Cylinder Line4 - or would you be able to place a piece in mid air (next to a edge of the board which is not really there.)

coan.net: I imagined you move as in Spider Line4 but you can connect 4 over the edges to win - so the Sphere just describes the scoring, not the placing. But that was just what came to my mind when I read "Sphere Spider Line4", I didn't think about it any further, I might be talking about something different from joshi_tm's idea.

coan.net: If that Cylinder Line 4 game is played on other sites, how are the color win statistics?

joshi tm: Well first, the site I'm talking about is GoldToken in case anyone is really interested.

They don't keep those types of stats - so I checked out, they have only a little over 200 rated players (so not a very popular game). Plus they have a special rule for that game only that is has to be EXACTLY 4 in a row. 5 in a row does not count as a win. (Which makes me curious if that rule is not in place to make things a little more even)

Anyway, I looked at the top couple of rated players, and it looks pretty even... with maybe player 1 having a slight advantage, but the wins/loses seem to be spread out pretty evenly. (Of course I only looked at a couple of players past games - so I could be wrong.)

Spider Line4. In current game, you can place a piece along any of the 4 walls - so A4 is a valid first move.

In Sphere Spider Line4, if you pretend the side walls are not there, then a move on A4 would be like it is in middle of the board. Which being able to start a piece in say A4, as I try to image a game - would give the first player a big advantage - since you can start to work to make a line in many more directions - giving player 2 possible too many ways to block before they can even make a real non-blocking move.

coan.net: Youre totally right. SSL4 is impassible, unless using hyperspace.

joshi tm: That's a good idea. We don't have a hyperspace on BrainKing yet.

Fencer: Is Cylinder Line 4 playable, then you can add it :).

Fencer: Another Idea: How about Swap Spider Line 4 or Pro Spider Line 4 to supress White's advantage??

Swap: As Swap Line 5 (and Spider Line 4), play 2 white, 1 black piece, than give Black the swap option.

Pro: White's Second Move should be played on the opposite rank or file, compared to his first move.