gogul: Everybody who's able to develop reason knows that Glenn Beck is an idiot. Even he knows it himself. Somebody who acts like an idiot is an idiot and deserves to be titled as idiot. Who thrown the first stone, Otterngezüchte!? What's worse? To act like an idiot like Glenn Beck or to call Glenn Beck an idiot. Now figure, we read you.

Are you serious? I love him!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7-BvVDV10

***Modified again to fix the last expletive. LOL

About time to clean up with the Friedman/neocon/pseudofreemarket/repub BS idioty. Criminal energie, that describes the Bush tendencies and all this crap. I need to start the thing again. The American republicans are low life and nothing else. The american democrats are no better. The US is a ridiculous country owned by criminals. Lets go on with this, reason proves my point of view. Switzerland is no better. Even worse.

Snoopy: It's not that she broke the law that gets me.. but that no-one working for her spotted the error.

That I find implausible.

its one law for the already haves and another law for the have nots
and this woman created the law she broke

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8268101.stm

"Some of the UK's leading building companies have been handed big fines by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) for rigging bids for contracts.

The OFT has fined a total of 103 firms £129.5m for colluding with competitors on building contracts. It said the firms colluded among themselves during the bidding process, leading to customers, such as local authorities, having to pay too much.

The ruling comes at the end of a five-year investigation by the OFT.

.... Adam Aldred, competition partner at law firm Addleshaw Goddard, which represents five of the firms investigated, said the OFT was the first competition authority in Europe to rule against building firms for the practice of cover pricing.

'Price distortions'
In 11 instances investigated by the OFT, the body found that the lowest bidder faced no competition because all other bids were cover bids. It also found six instances where successful bidders had paid an agreed sum of money to the unsuccessful bidder. These payments were between £2,500 and £60,000 and were made using false invoices. "

The best bit..................

"....The UK Construction Group, which represents 29 contractors, called the decision to penalise the firms "unfair".
Deborah Jones, OFT: "It's a breach of competition law"

"Everybody knows - including the OFT - that cover pricing was widespread in the industry in the past," said the body's director Stephen Ratcliffe. "

Übergeek 바둑이: .. don't forget the sumo suits and mud wrestling .. much more entertaining then watching the Parliament channel as it is!!

(V):

I think boxing gloves would be an expense that politicians could justify in the budget. Gloves, a spit bucket and a jockstrap with a cup, just in case of low blows.

Bwild: It would be nice if they did.. But I imagine there would be a lot less wars. It's easy to send to war someone else.

Übergeek 바둑이: lol
all government leaders should lead the charge into battle.

Übergeek 바둑이: Hey... Don't forget the detail in the construction of Parliament...

Benches were placed so no sword from either side could reach.. and the politicians had to stand behind the line to avoid sword crossing.

(V):

> It's as fake as wrestling!!

At least politicians in the US are not quite like those in Taiwan. Talk about fighting for the issues!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY68au9Rztk

I could see the Democrats going at it with the Republicans, like they do in Bolivia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjMeQoIq36c

Mexicans are just as good. There is something very entertaining about some guy who looks like Pancho Villa throwing punches to another politician.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUZsVLoA_kQ

More nice examples.

Japan, that was a nice Judo throw!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djdy_fhvZuM

South Korea, I figured they might use Tae Kwon Do, but I was rather disappointed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4wn70xPxzc

I think India has them all beaten. These guys actually drew blood!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DF8xYDzLk8

This woman in Nigeria used $5 million in government funds to renovate her home and buy 12 cars. No wonder their parliament broke into a fight. I think it would have been nice to see London politicans throw a few real punches over the spending scandal!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcroSnd8XW8

Compared to all these the fight in the Alabama Senate was so mild. I think American politicians are too civilized. Either that, or they are too afraid of public opinion. Well, more brawls would make politics more entertaining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlXKBribICs

I think I could go on all night. There are a lot of these videos. My favorite is the Japanese one. That guy would get my vote, just because of the awesome Judo throw!

Mike Tyson would make a great politician, not only because he can box, but because he can bite and fight dirty too!

Artful Dodger: Bush.. I thought comparison was part of metaphoric language!!

As to Wilson... he apologised. Manners, it appears at least are still respected in your houses. But as to talking... they always do. This image of being bitter enemies that is portrayed by the press of hate is just a farce.

It's as fake as wrestling!!

(V):  lol, they clearly aren't working together.   But I do like what Jay Leno suggested.   After hearing that a Republican yelled out "You lie!" during an Obama speech, Leno said, "Well, at least the two sides are talking to each other." 


Who cares about Bush?  Obama is the Prez. 

Bernice: No way... Registration is compulsory, but to force people to vote. Horrible idea.. That's more then people here will take, to make a choice to vote or not is still a vote. The politicians know what it means.

Artful Dodger: Yes, it's lower.. Politics can be a dirty game. But not as low as Bush's lowest.

And it seems six in ten still think Obama is working with the Republicans on Healthcare.

That both elected parties are working together, speaks loads.

it sounds like it is about time the UK made voting compulsory as it is in australia....that would definately change the outlook on your "parties" and give a truer indication of what the people want, surely.

Obama's health care plan is now at it's lowest level of approval.  His little bump didn't last.  And finally he spoke up regarding Acorn.  I'll bet some of the Dems try to save that corrupt organization.  I hope it goes the way of the dinosaur.  

Übergeek 바둑이: People in the UK have been getting pretty much tired of the major parties for a number of years. Technically, no government has had a majority for years, seeing as the voting level has dropped to 50% or there about's of the adult population.

Before, it was how MP's always agreed on good pay rises for themselves despite Joe Public having to settle for half or less of the %.

As for the Liberal Democrats.. not clean, but not as dirty as the main two. Labour came of the worst, yet the whole system has taken a bash and the necessary show of humility that needed to settle us voters fell far short of being acceptable.

The Conservatives will not commit in essential areas (troop safety) which does not lie well with me, and Labour are not listening to the Army chiefs.

I think the Liberal Democrats, minor parties and Independents will do very well. Especially in seats where current MP's have shown little or no remorse.

"It was within the rules" is a line that does not stand well here at all.

(V):

It is interesting with the UK because the dirty laundry is now being washed in public. I think at this point the UK finds itself in politically interesting times. On the one hand a lot of people have a bitter aftertaste of the many years of the Conservatives. There are bitter memories of the Thatcher years. Many people also have a bad impression of the Labour politicians and their handling of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is also all this mess with MP expenses.

I think smaller parties have better chances this time around. I don't know if any of the Liberal Democrats have been dragged into the recent scandals but if the local elections of 2008 are a sign, they could unseat a lot of Labour and Tory MPs. Over the last 10 years the Liberal Democrats have made steady gains in vote percentages and I think the next time around they will win big if they can convince the public that a change is needed in the House of Commons.

Here in Canada we have a some dirty politics going on now. The Liberals (similar to Labour in the UK) are trying to unseat the Tories and the National Democratic Party (more or less similar to the Liberal Democrats of the UK) are promising to hold off a no-confidence vote against the Prime Minister if the ruling Conservatives agree to some concessions in Parliament. People here are really fed up with the mess and I think that if the Liberals insist in forcing an election then the public will react by voting for the Green Party instead of them. We could see the Green Party rise from a small party to one of the big contenders.

Übergeek 바둑이: I wondered why I found it as being a 'rare' occurrence. Yet the make up now seems to be a 3 way split regarding votes and political allegiances.

It's gonna be interesting next general election here, many independents will be running against the established two parties. And thanks to the expenses scandal, alot will get in. The papers made a field day of how MP's reacted to the news of the public's distaste at the way they'd been creaming it. And that some tried to bring criminal prosecution against the details been paraded.. they had no chance.

They live by the press, they die by the press.

(V):

I think the Us has not needed coalition governments since the mid 19th century. The Republicans were founded in 1854. The Democrats trace their roots back to 1792. Both parties have dominated American politics since the mid 19th century and for this reason the US did not need coalitions or had any other two political parties in power since then

Übergeek 바둑이: ?? Are coalitions not legal in the USA? I would have thought (as has happened in the UK) that those who are roughly on the same side would club together and form a government.

Interesting politics when that happens.

Bwild: ROFL @ yomama

Übergeek 바둑이: Nader refused lobbyist campaign money. in fact was strongly against lobbyist, and vowed to abolish the practise.

Soros invested heavily in Brazilian oil....then guess our man yomama..decides to do the same, diverting U.S. funds from U.S. soil...funds our country could surely put to better use.
Soros was a large campaign contributer for the yomama team.

Übergeek 바둑이: No, just 'naked'.. Like the fact that until gone past the first K' AD.. Women didn't have souls.. The church ruled it so!!

History is full of those who try and hold unto power and 'tradition'.. Thankfully such times are growing hard. Freedom of information acts and the like make it much harder for hiding the dust under the carpet.

Being Gay was illegal here until about the 50's, sexual discrimination was rampant, etc, etc... The last 100 years have seen much central power diluted, and the power of voice gain more.

... Just wish the baby kissing politician would die off.. don't they think that line has been used up!!

Bwild:

For those who don't know much about him, here is a couple of links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader
http://www.nader.org/

Reading a little about him, I found out that he is a lawyer. Since the late 1950s he has been involved in issues such as public safety, environmental protection, government corruption and legislation to support those and other issues.

He has aligned himself with the Green Party. This party stands somewhere between the "liberal" parties (like the Democrats) and the European social democratic movement.

I will not say that he is a socialist. That would be inaccurate. He is a populist reformer. He believes that legislation and good government can get rid of many of the problems people face today. Of course. all politicians will say the same thing.

Considering the candidates he has run against from 2000 until now, I would say that for my liking he was probably the best one out there. Well, he comes closer to my left-leaning politics. He is certainly a very intelligent, very experienced politician. I would say his only weakness is his lack of experience in foreign policy. Other than that he seems to be one of the most capable politicians the US has had in the last 20 years.

Most Republicans in the US dislike him, and Democrats blame him for tilting the balance in favor of George W. Bush in 2000. He attracted much of the left-leaning vote, and the Democrats think they lost because of him. Of course, the same can be said of the Reform Party, which attracts the right-leaning vote.

I think that he is at least an alternative to two political parties that have become entrenched in their ideologies. I have seen no change coming from conservatives (Republicans) or liberals (Democrats) for the last 40 years.

Übergeek 바둑이: dude...your a wealth of knowledge! just curious though...whats your take on Ralph Nader?

Bernice:

> did you know that the aboriginal people of australia weren't given the vote until 1975

I knew this. In the two Congos the pigmy people are kept as slaves in the homes of wealthier landowners and they are not allowed to vote.

Democracy is a work in progress. In ancient Greece only the wealthy male aristocracy was allowed to vote. They excluded 90% of the population from voting. Then England created parliament and allowed MPs to be elected. Again, 90% of the population was excluded from voting until the French revolution forced the aristocracy to give up some of its power. In the Americas the United States and other independent countries gave people the right to vote and slowly over the next 200 years there a process of evolution. First, working men were allowed to vote, then men over 18. Then women and people of races other than Caucasian. 100 years ago most countries did not allow women to vote, thus excluding 50% of the population. It is a work in progress for sure.

Perhaps my view of democracy is rather dark, but the alternative is worse. Absolutist governments and dictatorships are definitely not the way to go.

I think the next step for democracies is participatory democracy where people can participate in everyday decisions. Technology should make this easier some day. The technology is already there, but it is still too expensive. Fingerprint and iris scanners are still too expensive. However, if fingerprint scanners become cheap, say $20-50 each, then every home could have one and a registered voter could vote from home. That could open the door to a new form of democracy where people can vote every day through their computers. A fingerprint scanner could make it impossible for somebody to vote twice.

Well, I doubt governments would like that. The ruling elite having to consult with the populace every day would make it very difficult for them to shove unpopular policies down everybody's throat. Imagine the budget being voted upon by the public. I doubt the wealthy contractors that make billions in the current system would like that.

Übergeek 바둑이: .... I think it's time America had another revolution. Imperial bosses to corporate bosses.... ALL HAIL THE BOSSES!!!

GTCharlie: Hopefully. We know politicians like their 'gizmo's' and toys.. But enough already!! How much money is going to wasted on stuff that'll never be used

Übergeek 바둑이: thanks for that :)

did you know that the aboriginal people of australia weren't given the vote until 1975 or there abouts...

but I do believe that they only vote because the law says they have to....

Bernice:

> if that is the case then, why vote?

It stops the masses from going into revolution. If people realized that they have no political power, then they would question why the elite is ruling them, and social discontent would set in. From its early beginnings in the 19th century modern democracy was conceived as a cure against revolution.

Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) was an English philosopher who formulated some of the early theories of modern government. He said that "the French Revolution was necessary for Europeans so that they would know that they should never have another one again". In England the common people (wealthy men, but not women or the poor) were given the vote in response to the ever increasing threat of a revolution like the one France had. Later on that same idea, together with Thomas Jeffersons views on government, influenced the new United States of America to give the franchise (power of vote) to "elegible" men. Initially only wealthy landowners could vote, but as the populace grew more and more discontent, it became necessary to give them the ability to vote.

Of course, voting gives an individual a very tiny amount of political power. The theory is that collectively the masses can change the political system by casting their individual votes. If somehow the way people vote can be manipulated, then the elite secures itself in power. That is why elections come with massive spending on propaganda, character assassination, mud slinging, etc. Wealthy individuals will sway elections in their favor with the power of their money.

In real life once a government is elected, accountability evaporates and those elected do whatever they want. Modern democracy is a system in which individuals vote to chose their dictators. The political parties will fight and pretend to represent the interests of voters, but in reality they are representing the interests of the wealthy elite. As long as the populace believes that they are free and they have control over their government, then they will never go into revolution and the status quo will remain.

 Bwild:

Pedro Martínez:

Übergeek 바둑이: ***They know ahead of time who is going to win, ***

if that is the case then, why vote?

Bwild:

I have read about George Soros before. From very early on in his career he was manipulating currency markets and using money and political connections to undermine governments.

Among the accusations levelled at him are the manipulation of the Ruble and wheat futures in the Soviet Union. Mikhail Gorbachev was convinced by the likes of Soros to let the Ruble float agains the dollar. George Soros moved in caused a massive devaluation of the Ruble coupled with a collapse in the price of wheat. As natural gas and oil prices sunk in the late 1980s the Soviet Economy sank deeper and deeper into trouble, and Geroge Soros made more and more money because he was manipulating currencies. The end result was the collapse of the Soviet Union.

He proceded to cause the collapse of several "communist" currencies in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary. All those communist governments collpased shortly thereafter.

He tried to do the same thing in China. However, the Communist Party of China had already heard of what he was doing in Russia, so they moved in and locked the Ren Min Bi against the US dollar. Soros had bet that the Ren Min Bi would collapse like the Ruble did, and instead it stayed pegged to the dollar. Reputedly George Soros lost over $1 billion in China. Ever since China has refused to let its currency fully float against other currencies. They are smart enough to know what George Soros and the likes of him are capable of doing.

George Soros is the ultimate opportunist. When George W. Bush ran for election the first time, he gave him millions. Then 4 years later he gave millions to John Kerry, claiming that George W. Bush was bad for the economy. He also gave $14 million to the Obama campaign.

He is not the only one to do this. Warren Buffet gave millions to George W. Bush and Arnold Schwarzennegger, then he turned around and gave million to Obama.

Politicly, these guys play on the winning team. It is why they make billions. They know ahead of time who is going to win, and they buy loyalty, influence and government contracts with all those billions they make.

GTCharlie:

Thanks for posting that. The "missile defense shield" is probably one of the biggest scams in history. The idea is to convince governments around the world of participating in a huge system of missile detection and interception aimed at defending Europe, North America and Japan from missile attackes from potentially threatening enemies.

On paper the idea sounds fine. You put a lot of radar systems, computers, missiles and satellites to intercept missiles. In reality the thing is a big scam because the system does not work and all that it will do is make taxpayers spend a lot of money to fatten the pockets of defense contractors.

People have forgotten an incident that happened early during the war in Iraq in 2003. A British Harrier fighter jet was shot down by patriot missiles automatically launched from Kuwait. The American air force was testing automated missile interception systems since they feared that Saddam Hussain could launch Scud missiles at their positions. Instead of intercepting anything, this was written down as a case of "friendly fire".

Field tests of the system have failed repeatedly over the years. The people designing the system insist tha as the technology gets better they will get it to work. Defense contractors working on this wanted the Bush administration to earmark $1.5 trillion for "research" and for setting up a big array of radars on the North American west coast. However, the funding did not materialize because of teh mounting cost of the war in Iraq, and the refusal of the Canadian government to spend money in an unproven system. However, the sentiment in the Canadian government has changed now tht we have a Conservative prime minister.

All of this is part of the old "Star Wars" program that started during the Reagan administration. When George H.W. Bush lost the reelection of 1992, all plans were halted by the incoming Clinton administration. The end of the Soviet Union and improving economic relations with China made the Clinton administration change its stance and they scrapped the program. However, the new Bush administration in 2001 decided to look into the system again and it was the war in Iraq that halted progress into what probably would be the biggest waste of taxpayer money in history.

The biggest problem with this is that a new weapons race could start if the US decides to insist on building this system. Russia, China and other countries have already warned that if the US puts this missile interception system in place, then they will create their own and they will resume rocket development and surface nuclear testing, two things that had slowed down after decades of negotiation. $1.5 trillion is no small amount of money and it might not be enough if the system proves unreliable in the face of ever improving rocket and stealth technology.

(V): definitely creates a race to out counter- measure each other,But I guess thats the end of it for there anyways

Pedro Martínez: to me...it just goes to show, that there really is no "left" or "right"...just bad and worse.

Bwild: “George Soros is an evil man. He’s anti-God, anti-family, anti-American, and
anti-good.” —Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson

This is enough for me to like the guy. :)

anyone ever read this?
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14700

GTCharlie: If we look at the past (cold war) all a missile defence of that nature will encourage is more missiles. The USSR and USA had over 100,000 nuclear warheads between the two at one stage to cope with 'unable' to launch (bombed) or shot down nukes.

And being the threat more of short - middle range. Waste of money..

Having Russia on side regarding the middle east is far more valuable logistically.

Ferris Bueller: I hope so, the Baucus bill is tooooo wishy washy in it's present form. I recon the insurance firms have been working overtime on lobbying!!

Ouch.... Gordon Brown has directly been accused by a relative of a dead soldier of being responsible of the soldiers death.

He stated that sending in troops without the proper equipment is the reason why the soldier died.. Not the Taliban.

(V):  Agreed.  And the "compromise" failed to get the 3 Republicans "negotiators" on board.  Democrats will have to do this reform on their own.  Hopefully, they will come up w/ something significantly better than the Baucus Bill, which is the insurance companies dream.  And public option is still on the table through other bills.

Übergeek 바둑이: It's Senator Max Baucus version, it's not set in stone. From what the press are reporting on it. .. too much compromise. Ya can't please all the people all the time.

The Democrats just unveiled their healthcare plan:

Yahoo news report

It calls for a price tag of $856 billion. I don't see how they will suceed getting this passed through Congress or the Senate.

Übergeek 바둑이: Aye... it happens... but if your fingers get caught in the pie over 'ere...

It's like with the expenses business. Thatcher's gov made the changes that caused them to get so easy to fiddle, and the conservative party over made a point of being 'squeaky' clean over taking the mickey at the tax payers expense.

.... and MP's got caught on camera moaning that they were hard done by!!

boo hoo.

GTCharlie: Of course are empire days would be taught Just as we get alot of the same and WWII.. Battle of Britain and the like. Oh the Versailles treaty helped alot. Imagine having inflation so bad that you had to be paid daily... the next, your dosh was only half the value.

Concentration camps.. British invention.. 100 years war... 1066 (last time we got invaded), etc...

How the EU stuffed our deal with the Commonwealth countries, hence cutting good trade deals that helped many a developing country. Food mountains whilst millions die of starvation each year.

McCarthyism, Spanish civil war, Marx, Lenin, Stalin.

And religion is freely taught at schools.... But at no time is hate based faith teaching allowed in any school.