The Col: It dates back older in various forms... Yet the phrase as I know it (and you know it) it dates back to a time of open fires..

As generally understood, the person accusing (the "pot") is understood to share some quality with the target of their accusation (the "kettle"). The pot is mocking the kettle for a little soot when the pot itself is thoroughly covered in the same. An alternative interpretation, recognised by some,[1][2] but not all,[3] sources is that the pot is sooty (being placed on a fire), while the kettle is clean and shiny (being placed on coals only), and hence when the pot accuses the kettle of being black, it is the pot’s own sooty reflection that it sees: the pot accuses the kettle of a fault that only the pot has, rather than one that they share.

The following poem is found in the school book "Maxwell's Elementary Grammar", copyright 1904.

"Oho!" said the pot to the kettle;
"You are dirty and ugly and black!
Sure no one would think you were metal,
Except when you're given a crack."

"Not so! not so!" kettle said to the pot;
"'Tis your own dirty image you see;
For I am so clean – without blemish or blot –
That your blackness is mirrored in me."


>>>>>>>>>> I think it's just where lamon was raised, it got made racist by the old timers he refers to from his 'childhood'.

Iamon lyme: It's called having a basic knowledge of chemistry, physics and geography.

Plus several years of reporting on various news channels here in the UK showing the effects of acid rain on forests.

"Or, we need to get as many contraceptives for women as we can, because... uh, because we men respect them and, and... because we don't want to have to spend the rest of our lives paying for some brat just because we can't keep our pants zipped up... because we respect them!"

You'll find a comparable text in the Bible... in the OT.

"so they may learn the value of caring for inanimate objects."

But the Earth moves, it is animated.

"babies in the womb are NOT inanimate objects... so caring for them, let alone caring anything about them, is simply not an issue."

If that's what you think people that are not thinking like you think.. then your thinking need rethinking.

"Well, not yet."

You have a real grudge??

The Col: You can please some of the people... etc.

The Col: He knows.. he just didn't like my reply.

Iamon lyme: So you do understand I find you moaning about what you call "liberals" is hypocritical considering elements within the GOP camp have used such tactics.

... fyi most politically concious people in the UK consider the democrats as being conservative, republicans as being very conservative... and the tea party being so right, that like Derek Zoolander (see film).... they cannot turn left.

.. the likes of the BNP being the exception. The party that was taken to court over only allowing white members.. preferably with a family tree dating back to the last ice age.

Artful Dodger: Saying Obama was crap in helping his state.

"V doesn't know that it's not actually tasteless to say "drink the koolaid." Koolaid comes in many flavors and it's anything but tasteless."

Didn't say it was tasteless... but it's not sold in the UK except maybe in 'USA' goods stores. We've got our own weird ones, n' some of the varieties that we get from the Nepalese shops is...

Iamon lyme: Leader.. ideology.. religious persuasion, there is no difference... pot calling kettle black. Every major group plays on some 'herd' instinct.. No moral high ground for you there.

"appealing primarily to our emotions and making us "feel good". I like feeling good too, I don't know who doesn't, but not at the expense of what can happen if I only follow my feelings."

... again a pot n' kettle case.

"and I no longer worry about resisting questionable sales pitches. If I hear a message that appears tailored only to making me feel good, then I immediately become suspicious."

Just the ones that try and make you feel good? What about the ones designed to make you feel insecure or afraid... seems you've got some listening to learn

Iamon lyme: Like in Texas?

"The idea that Christie must not read what AD says (at this board?) was hilarious."

If Christie goes by you or AD politics wise.. The GOP won't ever get elected. That is what was said.. don't you get it? Former Republican congressmen get it, Jon Stewart gets it and so does an increasing number of your fellow countrymen.

"There are laws in existence now that people 40 years ago would have scoffed at you for even suggesting could be become law."

Of course there are. Some for good reason.. but just saying there are laws is kinda another sound bite that means nothing unless I give it gravity.

.. I see no gravitational effect. Words need weight from example, rather than bogey men.

This has more weight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqi8m4CEEY

Iamon lyme: ... Likewise he might read something he wants you don't approve of... which seems to be a lot.

JerNYC: I hope so, from the little I've seen he looks like a guy who'll work more readily with the other side rather than against it all the time.

The Col: The Conservatives here blamed Labour for the expenses scandal, Labour blamed the Conservatives. The Conservative started the system allowing MP's to abuse what they can claim as expenses... but Labour, in power for over a decade did sod all to reverse such abuse until it hit the papers.

No party can really stand on a pedestal. I'm sure some democrats probably have cheated, just as some republicans have.

.. there all human

The Col: .. if proven, that's different. Community service and a fine time.

The Col: I hope the silly woman just gets a slap on the wrist. She's more stupid than malicious.

Interesting to be watching Fox news online and why they thought Romney lost. Doug Schoen and his mate in the studio talking to a former republican congressman. Romney went too far right in his stance to win, even Ryan was a mistake. The branding that the republican party has adopted is dirt.. even Murdoch has damaged the GOP name.

... and they've being saying so for 18 months.

Well.. Fox news agrees with me... strange!!

If Mitt had been as he was as a governor of a state where he introduced universal care.. ... ...

... he might of won.

Artful Dodger: Are they going to finally be the ones to save the federal and state governments spending valuable time and resources on busting pot heads? The stuff people are trying instead of to be 'lawful' is really bad manure from the news reports... ie K2.

It'd save on valuable prison space for real criminals!!

Iamon lyme: Like what? An example that gives weight to your argument would be nice. Otherwise it's just a lonnnnggg sound bite.

eg advertisers on torrent sites designed to illegally share copyrighted material. The companies advertising are 100% legit, yet they are supporting pirating. I'm not talking about sharing a little music... but movies, software and games. Which many companies are looking to have blocked and downloaders, etc in court.

Another could be the illegality of marijuana here in the UK. It is illegal to possess or grow or sell it.. yet 100% legit UK companies are allowed to sell the seeds as 'souvenirs' or 'ornaments'... even in shops on the high street.

.. being a prostitute on the streets is not illegal, johns get arrested but not the women... Yet it's illegal to run a boudoir.

It can be confusing how the law works. Sometimes they do get it wrong, or as I've shown above contradict itself in it's application.

See, examples can be found.

The Col: Limits on campaign funds.

The Col: Voter ID soon.. regardless, is a lame duck.

Bwild: Is to limit lobbying.

Bwild: Hey.. It's been known to be a joke this side of the pond since the 80's

Don't worry dude, we have the problem of what are the losers going to do every election.. Most of the time it's to slag off the party in power, while not really having a clue what to do. Half the promises get dropped being "too expensive" or suddenly 'complicated'.

Actually Obamacare for all your perceived faults in it, had one good point. The end of most uninsured people only getting treated via A&E (ER to you) ..... a rather costly system. Preventive care being cheaper you know.

"you nor the Col. really have no clue as to what is really happening in the U.S.
Lamon hit the nail on the head...but like most sheep...you two follow the media to slaughter."

Dude.. You are a young country.. we've been there ... had our civil wars.. decades of unrest before and after.. industrial revolution.. we started it.. had to give up an empire. Lived under a cold war, been told "they" are the enemy.. when all "they" were.. just poor souls like everyone else trying to live. Puritans.. we had em' Oliver Cromwell is famous for leading the above mentioned civil war... They didn't last.

Here in the UK.. I'm a moderate.

The Col: So did many women from the era of suffragettes.

The Col: Aye. Some weird manure happening from some reports I've read.

Bwild: Oh noooo they get the job of representing the tea party .. !! .. sorry Republicans when it comes to blocking the Democrats.

.. payments for services going offshore to hide the money trail

Iamon lyme: so is this the giant pot calling a small kettle black thing? Because you seem to have many preconceptions about what people who don't think like you think. ... stereotyping it's called.

Now.. what regulations were you referring to in this...

"Technically, it's illegal to have an underground economy that avoids regulations paperwork and taxation, but when government makes it impractical to do business legally then underground economies will thrive"

"The US has over the years discovered enough untapped oil to live very comfortably and for a very long time, without needing to import oil from anwhere else."

Ok.. recent developments (since I last saw the figures) in oil drilling (fracking) are going to increase production. Yet... you still have a shortfall now of over 7 million barrels per day, estimates for production increase (Citibank forecast) say that by 2020 you could be producing 13-15 million barrels a day. Still at current usage levels far below what your country consumes.

.... if it wasn't for the cost of crude going up, it wouldn't be profitable to use fracking.. crude must stay over $75 a barrel to make it worthwhile. Yet one concern is mentioned.. will it cause contaminated water from the fracking to enter the ground water that ends up in your taps?

Is this ok? Do you concur?? Or are liberals (whatever that means to you) going to get blamed for everything?

Iamon lyme: the story is that if your country relied purely on internal stocks you'd run out of cheap oil quickly. Your country consumes more than it can provide itself on a reasonably sustainable level. Everyone knows that I thought.. maybe you are an exception

"So Castro was actually revolting against US companies."

Who were using Cuba as a virtual slave state.. I presume you don't want to face upto that fact by your reply.

"So I guess that means you are for gun control, to limit individual gun ownership so as to insure foreign forces will meet with no significant resistance from the locals."

No..... I was commentating on how much of the 18-19th century land gains were gained through taking lands. Especially in Africa.

"The ordinary man isn't required to pay 40% to 70% of his income in taxes."

wow... you really think people at the top do that... if you do, I'd have to say you are very naive.

"Other than yourself, no one said anything about free enterprise with no rules."

So.. what regulations would you keep? Be clear for once if you can.

"What safeties did you have in mind, or are you asking because you don't know?"

Not being sold products that are underweight, false advertising, knowing that the goods we buy are upto standard... simple things like that.

"I weary of my own ramblings"

ditto, it'd be nice if you dropped some of the ham acting

Iamon lyme: So if a company through lack of regulation supplied you with contaminated water you'd be ok with it? It's happened in the past in the USA!!!

"The only reason our nation (as well as yours) was able to become very prosperous as quickly as it did was because there were enough people acting on solid moral principles."

Not really.. alot was at the end of a gun and/or bayonet. Taking lands and resources that did not belong to our nations based on the principle that it was their for the taking. Millions of natives died through the march of God fearing Christians out to make as much profit for as little cost as they could.

... It's recorded in records.. Resources to the civilised world... guns and bullets to keep control in foreign lands.

eg.. If the companies exploiting Cuba had not done so with such disregard for the locals... Would Castro have risen to power so dramatically?

"and it's usually not anything good, except maybe for the petty dictator."

So why has our nations supported so many in return for ore and crude oil?

Apple paid $713m (£445m) in the year to 29 September on foreign pre-tax profits of $36.8bn (£23.0bn), a rate of 1.9%. It is the latest company to be identified as paying low rate of overseas tax, following Starbucks, Facebook and Google in recent weeks. It has not been suggested that any of their tax avoidance schemes are illegal.

All of the companies do pay considerable amounts of other taxes in the UK such as National Insurance and raise large sums of VAT. Apple's figures for foreign tax appear on page 61 of its form 10k filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

It had paid a rate of 2.5% the previous year.

Apple channels much of its business in Europe through a subsidiary in the Republic of Ireland, which has lower corporation tax than Britain.But even Ireland charges 12.5%, compared with Britain's 24%.

Many multinational companies manage to pay substantially below the official corporation tax rates by using tax havens such as Caribbean islands.

So.. there we have it. It's not so much the rates are too high. Just companies want to do as much as possible, to avoid paying set rates .... as low as 12%.

If an individual who was self employed tried that.... They'd be facing fines and charges for defrauding HMRC.

If companies (as Romney says) are people.... Then they should be treated as such.

But I'm told (here) that such an attitude is wrong and that these 'people' are above the law of the land.

Iamon lyme: Oh no.. they might pay an extra few %... far less though than they use to pay. But it's ok.. cause businesses are people The country's balance sheet can goto pot. Schools, healthcare, infrastructure. Meaningless.

That since Raygun cut taxes dramatically the US has gotten deeper and deeper into debt is in no way relevant. One wonders if the cuts (ordered by the puppet masters) were to high.

"A free market benefits everyone, especially the consumer."

Really. When price fixing is part of your free market scenerio.

"since your knickers seem to permantly be in a twist over off shore accounts and people trying to avoid getting screwed by unfair tax laws..."

They are unfair? ....... how?

Iamon lyme: Yeah right.. that's what they do all the time. They don't pay any shareholders, or use various ways to escape paying taxes. Legal one... that's the joke. It's legal to avoid paying taxes if you are rich.. something a ordinary man does not have the ability to do.

"More people are out of work, and have stopped drinking the koolaid because now they'd rather know (instead of being told) how our economy actually works."

....??? a tasteless reference to the Jones town massacre??

"They've seen first hand what can happen when someone starts playing around and screwing with the economy, adding obstacles to free market growth rather than removing them."

Yes.. the banking system worldwide nearly collapsed. Trillions is pension funds screwed through people taking risks with normal peoples money they ought not to be doing... actually there was regulation but they choose to ignore it.

"There is plenty of money right now just sitting on the sidelines, ready to be pumped in as soon as investors know they will not be simply throwing their money down an endless tax and spend rat hole."

There was before hand.. in tax havens.

"or watch it go away in higher taxes and more restrictions on how they are allowed to run their business."

If people can't be trusted to be honourable and they are by trade supposed to be honourable.. we are supposed to just let them be cads and get away with it?

"So tell me, does your government over there tell you how to spend your monthly stipend?"

Cos I'm not clergy.. no.

"Why should you enjoy MORE freedom in deciding what to do with YOUR money than someone who works long hours hoping to stratch out a living"

We all enjoy the same rights. But businesses are bound by health and safety.. as I am to a degree. They pay VAT.. so do I. Certain contract rules apply to all.. unless you claim sovereignty... but that is a complicated. Everyone is expected to pay local taxes, and or any corporation tax.. unless you are a multinational cheating every country out of it's fair due by lying... Or like revealed today avoiding paying NI through shell corporations and because of the law... putting various schools, colleges and universities at risk of having to pay what they already thought they had paid.

But please tell me how this free enterprise with no rules works? What safeties are there to protect us from fraud, lies, death in your world?

rod03801: I agree as it seems the majority do. But, a significant proportion of people don't.

"And I'll NEVER understand why it isn't logical that it should be guaranteed that only people who legally can vote, do vote."

We have an electoral roll register system. Everyone has to register... no ID though, just a statement on who is living at a property of who can vote. Voting time... a card is sent out that must be presented before being able to vote.

So we have a very high registered voter base.. over 90%.

"Plus, most of those unregistered voters probably already have ID's. Sadly, many people just don't get involved because they don't think their vote matters."

A percentage, yes. But not all.

.. It be interesting if the 60 million unregistered voters registered in the USA. But it's gotten harder thanks to Republican *cough* paranoia ((aka we don't want these poor people voting as they'll vote democrat)) over voter fraud.

4 more years?? Either way, the GOP is facing having to appeal to a more wider voting base.

This is where American politics changes? The campaign system of saying what Obama 'hasn't' done will have to be replaced with actual real policies. Including the recognition that the majority of Americans do not want more tax cuts for the rich, as they know if such cuts were enacted the US debt would spiral out of control.

The Col: .... baby kissing style.

Thank God us Brits don't fall for that bs anymore!

The Col: Indeed.. flipping since this .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJG75FJkjr8 ... has never been performed so well.

Both candidates seem to miss any mention of gun control. Guess saying people should be limited to buying under 1000 rounds at a time is just too much!!

The Col: That remind me of Mitten when a journalist asked him about the corporate support he gets and what influence it exerts on him.

... He said he didn't get influenced and that was it!! Really, that was it. That it was it had to be made clear several times, and that was it.

It was also made clear by his staff that Mitt did not appreciate such questions, and that was it.

Artful Dodger:

“Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the tactics, the constitutional rights of citizens who work in these businesses, yet have nothing to do with the financial transactions of the owners, have been undeserved victims of these frightening raids… unlawfully detained for hours, intimidated, interrogated without the presence of a lawyer and their personal property confiscated.”

... so in the end through lack of evidence, yet another fraudster who's put the jobs of the staff in jeopardy will go onto another company and do the same. Yeah.. we've seen it done here. Staff screwed, creditors not paid and the directors just set up the business under a different name.

... but it's ok to water board.. sorry interrogate a non American? I don't see them being quite in the same ball park some how.. Are the staff being water boarded???

The Col: One wonders if it's gonna be another Bush job if he gets elected.. or worse... RaYgUn.

My fav Romney quotes at the mo...

"I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that’s the America millions of Americans believe in. That’s the America I love"

"My dad, as you probably know, was the governor of Michigan and was the head of a car company. But he was born in Mexico... and had he been born of, uh, Mexican parents, I'd have a better shot at winning this. But he was unfortunately born to Americans living in Mexico. He lived there for a number of years. I mean, I say that jokingly, but it would be helpful to be Latino." -Mitt Romney, in leaked comments from a Florida fundraiser, May 17 2012

Artful Dodger:<span><span> Shame your party wouldn't approve the funds wanted by those in Obama's admin.

By <me> and lots of others.

The Col: Mitt's relying on Chinese whispers!!??!!

Iamon lyme: Or in Mittens' case... 10.

The Col: I hope it's old style shambling zombies.. But the questions leads to where... China, who is screwing up their eco system. Or India, where kids recycle e waste in conditions that the word toxic is an understatement.

If an American was told to work in the same way.. they'd be able to retire from the proceeds of the court case.

Vikings: It's fearful... how? Reality check fearful.. or just because it's uncomfortable to hear??