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12. Joulukuu 2008, 20:09:29
Mort 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Artful Dodger: .... The American government has been sticking it's nose into various things around the world and in it's own country for ages under both parties...

Cold war... even though there were alot of wars, and even thinking of using a possibly unsafe element called agent green on it's own soil.

.... And it's the governments job to help the people as best it can, it won't stop all the "chips" falling, but taking the edge off is like a doc given you painkillers for a cracked rib..... You know it's gonna take time to heal, yet at least you don't have to feel the worst of the 'pain'.

"the automobile industry can file bankruptcy and then restructure in such a way that they will truly be competitive on the world market."

And the jobs lost in the process right now in the midst of a depression, when jobs are harder to find... And what if the all American car makers get bought by foreign companies?

.... How would that look and feel to proud Americans?

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:03:16
Bernice 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
(V): you sound as tho you are having a "nasty" against USA

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:05:02
Mort 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Bernice: Nope.... Just read alot of history and watched documentries about in the ins and out over the last 60 years. I mean... how many people know we've come close to full scale Nuclear war twice?

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:14:54
Bernice 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
(V): well there was definately Russia under Boris Yeltsin, and I don't know why but cuba comes to mind.....but please feel free to enlighten the "unread" of us LOL

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:17:53
Pedro Martínez 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:30:13
Bernice 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Pedro Martínez: Thanks for that :) I didnt search because it was only 6.15am Saturday morning and a bit heavy to get into before I go to work ROFL..........

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:18:50
Mort 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Bernice: 1983... The russian sats thought high altitude clouds for missile launches, if it weren't for a guys gut feeling that it was a false alarm.. well. ... ...

plus many times The USA's systems have 'malfunctioned' .

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:31:58
Bernice 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
(V): BUT...to follow up on your how many people know we've come close to full scale Nuclear war twice?

more people than you realize I think

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:41:53
Mort 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Bernice: Possibly, and possibly not. It's a cat situation.

12. Joulukuu 2008, 21:02:56
Mort 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Artful Dodger: ?? Which ones, the ones who need help.. or the ones who don't but it'll be good to have an enemy of your enemy on your side?

Yes.. Jobs will be lost no doubt. But how many and for how long, and maybe it'll give some of your corps more time to think together.

13. Joulukuu 2008, 00:13:31
rod03801 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Artful Dodger: I think one problem with the bankruptcy route could be that most people probably don't want to chance buying a car from a "bankrupt" company, and if sales get even worse, there is even less chance of recovering.

I'm against the bailout though, but I do worry about that.

13. Joulukuu 2008, 01:24:58
anastasia 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
rod03801: the banks were bailed out...the auto will be given a loan they are saying (saying) they will pay back.
Why are the banks (AIG) not being held accountable that after the big bail out they sent their CIO's on vacations,not once but twice...and the banks used the money to buy out other banks....why is nobody raising hell about that??

13. Joulukuu 2008, 03:28:36
coan.net 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
I'm just going on things I heard or read - sorry I don't have examples - nor am I sure this is 100% correct, but I will try to post what I know about the automobile bailout.

As anastasia has said - it is more of a loan then a bailout.

Also, as I understand it - the UAW in their last 2 contracts have already given in on many things they had in the past, and as I understand it - the president of the union has also agreed that the union will take more cuts. As I understand it, the Senate wanted the union president the other day to promise exact cuts that the UAW would take, and even though he agreed that the UAW needed to do that - he could of course not give specifics since things like that would have to be voted on by all UAW union workers.

The Union president has also said that (as I mentioned about, the union already took cuts and willing to do more), that he also believes that the union should not be the only one giving back. The CEO's and upper management of the car companies should also give back. Also the majority of car parts are made by non-union companies, and even though the UAW has taken cuts in the past - management and other outside sources have only gained in the past. So as he said, the union is willing to do their part - but they also should not be the only ones.

Plus just to let people know - I believe unions today are almost pointless. I believe I lost my job 6 years ago because of the greed and uselessness of a union - so it's not that I'm pro-union... I'm just posting what I understand of the situation right now.

... and again, I say "as I understand" a lot since I'm not 100% sure of all of those - it is just things I have heard and read - so it might not be correct.

13. Joulukuu 2008, 04:08:35
anastasia 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
coan.net: I'm pretty much on ya with everthing you said...that is what our news is also reporting to us as of 6 pm today..
I agree unions are pretty pointless today,I know alot of people would string me up for that one,but I laso worked for one up till about 1 year ago and all they did was take my dues every week.
Upper management SHOULD give back....why the people for these compnaies make MILLIONS of dollars a year is beyond me

13. Joulukuu 2008, 12:04:26
Bernice 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
anastasia: unions is australia are practically null and void....thank the Lord for small mercies LOL

13. Joulukuu 2008, 12:31:20
Snoopy 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
anastasia: thanks to the Iron Lady we dont hear much from the unions now in the UK

13. Joulukuu 2008, 14:48:58
Mort 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Snoopy: Ohhhhhhh yes we do, just certain practices are now illegal that they use to do when it came to strikes.

There have been quite a few one or two day strikes in the last year by various unions which they take if the membership do so vote in the majority. Plus all the lorry driver protests over fuel prices specifically 'duty'

... I've seen teachers and experianced the consequences of teachers striking, seen council workers strike, fireman strike, tube drivers strike, and many threats of such unless a compromise could be met over the unions demands (supported by the members) which would lead to a resolution to the problem or dispute at hand.

13. Joulukuu 2008, 14:55:15
Mort 
Otsikko: Re: make MILLIONS of dollars a year is beyond me
anastasia: Greed and the ability to give themselves wonderful pay rises.. It's the golden handshakes that get to me.... where some get it even if they've done a bad job and are having to resign or get sacked.

... In those conditions I don't think they should get a penny extra except what is owed to them under the same laws as average John by state law. Usually paid till the end of the month or what ever pay period is used.

13. Joulukuu 2008, 18:58:05
Czuch 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
anastasia: Upper management SHOULD give back..

If I were in congress right now, I would tell them that I would not listen to one word they have to say until each and everyone there begging for us to help them survive was to quit!

Only then would I be assured they have the best interest of the industry in mind and not their own well being!

13. Joulukuu 2008, 18:54:48
Czuch 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
coan.net: As anastasia has said - it is more of a loan then a bailout.


I dont have to read more than that right there to know it is a bad idea! If this was really a loan and a good idea, then there would be hundreds of private banks etc lining up to give them financial help! The fact that they are asking the federal government for help tells me straight away that they have no banks or other private institutions that think this is not a huge risk! Why should we take a risk that nobody else thinks is worth it?

What thet are asking for, pure and simple is a bail out, it is notever going to get paid back, using the word 'loan' is a bunch of crap!

13. Joulukuu 2008, 00:25:48
rod03801 
Otsikko: Re: New topic, if there is interest.
Artful Dodger: I, personally, understand that.

For most people, a car is one of their biggest purchases. When foreign cars are already better (in many peoples' eyes), I think a majority of people will say, "Why chance it?" and buy from other companies.

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