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 Pente


Pente & its variants.

Here are the Pente rules for beginners



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22. apríla 2003, 00:04:16
Gary Barnes 
Subjekt: We agree that separate variants ARE BETTER!
To all -

Based on a lot of soul-searching this weekend, we have come to the conclusion that we have under-estimated the degree of passion that people have in wanting to play Pente and Keryo Pente without the restriction. This despite the strong advantage of one side and the potential confusion of BRAND NEW players to the game.

Pioneer54 has mentioned the fact that he thought that we might have 'ulterior motives' in our stance. Rest assured that he is CORRECT in that assessment. Our ulterior motives are that we are passionate in believing that new and beginning players learn the game correctly. It had nothing to do with us wanting to force-feed our views on everyone or somehow 'control' the game. We just feel strongly that beginning players are being dealt an injustice by learning it without the restriction. Where it appears that we have gone wrong is that those new and beginning players might STILL want to eventually play without the restriction.

We could probably prove easily that player 1 wins easily in Pente. In Keryo Pente, it may be a little harder to prove, mainly because there is more defensive options available for the defending side and we have studied the game FAR less, but with 6-12 months of concentrated experience and study, I'm confident that we could also prove the same in that game. But that is obviously a moot point to players who play 'for fun'.

Based on all of this, we have made a recommendation to Fencer that, if he is willing to do it, should satisfy everyone AND prevent any problems related to ratings as a result of the 'Restriction Option' on the smaller board.

Obviously, I cannot speak for Fencer, because we have only recommended it, but I want everyone to know what we have recommended to him:

1. Create two entirely NEW separate variants called 'No-restriction Pente' and 'No-restriction Keryo Pente'. These games would be played on a 13x13 board without the restriction and would be EXACTLY LIKE IYT's 13x13 games.

2. Do NOT put the option on Small Pente and Small Keryo Pente. Leave those game like they were changed to a few weeks back WITH the restriction. Fortunately, I DON'T think he has completed that just yet, although I could be wrong. The problem with the option is, like has been mentioned before, the ratings. There are also other problems like players 'cheating' by only playing as White without the restriction and possible LARGE amounts of confusion related to creating and entering tourneys for the game with a restriction option. I DO think that was a GOOD initial thought by Fencer because of all of the 'arguing' that he noticed on the boards here, and it would certainly placate BOTH sides of the issue in the short term. But I think there would be quite a few complaints in the long term relating to ratings, cheating, and tournament confusion.

So here would be the result of all of this:
Pente and Keryo Pente:
19x19 boards WITH restriction
Small Pente and Small Keryo Pente:
13x13 board WITH restriciton
No-restriction Pente and No-restriction Keryo Pente:
13x13 board WITHOUT restriction

I think that this will make EVERYONE happy for the following reasons:
1. It maintains the currently accepted rules of the game by the names of 'Pente' and 'Keryo Pente' so that beginners that are BRAND NEW to the games will not be confused what the correct way to play it is. (Very important to us!)
2. It makes it OBVIOUS what games to play if you prefer no restriction. And those games are what everyone is used to playing at IYT. (Very important to many of you, I think!)
3. It won't confuse the ratings by having restriction and no-restriction games mixed together.
4. It would allow players to create and play in tournaments on the Small Pente and Small Keryo pente variants without there being a confusion as to whether the restriction would be used or not.
5. It will prevent potential ratings cheaters who only play without the restriction as white on the Small Pente and Small Keryo Pente variants.

Obviously the last 3 are important to EVERYONE, I think! One final benefit is that it would probably take more players from IYT, and most people know my feelings about them! :-)

The only thing about all of this is that it will be additional work for Fencer to create the 2 NEW variants. I'm guessing that it won't be TOO much work since MOST of the programming code should already be in place and that could just be duplicated. I'm sure that he will let all of us know if this is OK for him.

For a VERY interesting REFUTE to my supposedly 'unassailable' challenge (like several people said it was), see my next Email. I refuted MYSELF and so could have everyone else!! (LOL, I guess it's better to refute YOURSELF than have others do it for you!)


Gary Barnes

22. apríla 2003, 03:39:28
mmammel 
Subjekt: Re: We agree that separate variants ARE BETTER!
Thanks for these recent posts Gary, it good to see that you can understand and entertain everyone's thoughts. I agree with the initial idea that if someone wants to play Pente seriously, especially in tournaments, it is essential to learn and play with the opening restriction. But I also see no reason to ban anyone from playing the simpler game without the restriction if they'd like (or tic tac toe for that matter :).

I think we can do well with having some kind of option for the opening restriction. And maybe be prepared for other opening rules -- see my post on the Pente board about opening rules and the World Pente Federation.

-MM

22. apríla 2003, 03:54:31
Pioneer54 
Subjekt: Re: We agree that separate variants ARE BETTER!
I would go along with the listing of games, as Gary has detailed.

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