Yes, it is despicable to urinate on a corpse, but this was filmed because they saw nothing wrong with it. They are operating on some moral high, the legitimacy of their cause. They have just killed these men but you guys are complaining because they "peed" on them. What is the penalty for denigrating a corpse? You think 6 months in jail is not enough but murder that is ok? We should be looking rather at a society that breeds these types of men, then harnesses and nurtures these instincts and finally celebrates their achievements.

Übergeek 바둑이: I have to agree with you, our legal systems have been inadequate. Especially when influenced by politicians and agencies wishing to hide their dirty laundry, or use legal jargon that has no real reality bar making justification morally easier for the voting public to digest.

Yet I've noticed over the last decade or so that hiding has become much harder. The reporting and investigation done, even with the various biases revealing much by how they write.

.. and even with the likes of Murdoch and other right wing news outlets, we still have some independent journalistic outlets.

So, while I don't trust our legal systems, I know it is being watched. And I do trust our deep down humanity.

(V):

> Heads will hopefully roll on both sides of the pond.

I wish that I had your faith in the legal system. To me the legal system is an inadequate joke when it comes to war crimes comitted by western military forces. I look at the Abu Graib case, and not a single one of the soldiers involved served a full sentence. Most of them pleaded guilty, "cooperated" with prosecutors and got either reduced or suspended sentences. The ones that served sentences ended up being paroled early. It is a joke to me that these people could torture and sexually abuse prisoners, and get no substantial punishment. Worst of all, they can still return to active duty even if they were demoted to privates. Abuses at Guatanamo bay have received no legal prosecution and have for the most part been swept under the carpet.

These men urinating on corpses will be demoted, have their pay suspended for a month, and serve at most 6 months in prison. It will be another legal joke just like Abu Graib.

Übergeek 바둑이: I think it's more a case of the psychology of someone who kills easily, any elite force is going to have a high degree of this small percentage of humanity (something like only 3-4%) .... and that within this small percentage you are going to have a few some real morons with no respect.

They'll be caught and made an example of. Of course the name of the person filming and uploading it will come out. Then it becomes a matter of how much of a sheep they were.

Artful Dodger: You would have thought knowing what could happen to them if caught, they would've not wanted it videoed. Just as the UK intelligence service is now facing investigation on handing over people to the former Gaddafi regime knowing they would be tortured.

The records found by the rebels are rather incriminating

Heads will hopefully roll on both sides of the pond.

(V):

I suppose that humilliating a dead body shows their courage, determination and devotion to freedom and democracy. As always, the fascist nature of the war rears its ugly head. One would like to believe that it is the exception rather than the rule, but as with Abu Graib, the crime is not in doing something rotten, but in being so stupid as to film it and then expect it never to be seen by anybody else. I am sure the whistleblower who leaked it will end up in a court martial because the real crime is exposing a dirty secret and then "risking national security".

(V): First of all: Why did they video tape it??? And how is it that tapes like this get out??? Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb!!! I hope those idiots all get discharged and lose all their $$ etc. Idiots.

(V): A typical misunderstanding. They don't know how it really works. They, among others, need a lesson in capitalism. (hint --> employment protection).

So what exactly did those Marines pissing on corpses help to achieve by their "golden showers"?

gogul: I'm counting on proper conscience. It kills if you were a bad boy (or girl for that matter).

What's going on with Wulff in Germany is just a flashbang. In Europe, some may get a little angry about certain german politicians somewhere ... around the european central bank... Barroso and the kind are not justifiable anymore in their positions. What can they do? Wipe streets? Cleaning public toilets? Move to prison?

gogul: Payback is too big for our supercapitalists, they can't pay back their depts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GorqroigqM

Worth watching, and having deforestation, disastrous pollutions and such in mind. If you don't know what this is, you have a gap in education. If you think you are not part of what happens somewhere abroad, you are an ignorant.

(V): So it is, the republicans for sure are not part of the solution.

Übergeek 바둑이: And this needs to take 6 months!!

Guess it's the politicians and the PR firms who are profiting, not the people. All that money would do wonders helping build community projects

(V):

As I understand it, the membership of each state casts its vote. The nomination is done through election within the party. People outside the party do not get to vote in the nomination process.

..... I don't get why the states vote on who gets to be the leader of the opposition. Isn't that something the party should decide?

Well the new supreme leader looks ... ... in control.

... Those hats remind me of ..

Übergeek 바둑이: I don't..

"However, when the war in Iraq started he completely abandoned his left-wing politics in favour of right wing ideology."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUixaVH8DVY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj6WechLhw&

I don't think so. I think he was not of one ideology.

Let us replace the EU personnel.

Übergeek 바둑이: It must be kind of desperate, and the fight against ignorance can lead some people to anything, even the ugly. Neocreationism for instance, stubbornness due to an illusion related to the "birth", the right of the first birth. Nobody keeps his first new birth, but the illusion is kept alive with dark spots in the soul. These black spots, Hitchens was on about them, and I admire him for that. Neocreationists are missled, and it ruled the americas. Hitchens stood open to a lawsuit for the Babylon trip of Mr. Bush, his Irak war.

To me it is interesting that people on the right admire Hitchens. Of course he is an atheist, but that is forgiven because he was a big defender of the war in Iraq. If Hitchens had opposed the war, would he be a "scholar and a gentleman"? His friendship with Paul Wolfowitz certainly helped to assuage any concerns about his atheism. People forget that Hitchens started out as a Troskyist (a communist) and it was in that part of his life that his atheism developed. However, when the war in Iraq started he completely abandoned his left-wing politics in favor of right wing ideology. For all his intelligence, he seems to me ideologically flaky. Anybody who goes from left to right like that shows a lack of conviction in his beliefs. Yet in spite of his ideological switch, he still remained an atheist. It is rather a paradox.

Bernice:

it is good to see that the USA and Afghanistan are such good friends on Twitter :)

you can feel the love :)

Despite the gloomy economic situation, the United States has become the world's most generous nation, according to this year's Charities Aid Foundation's World Giving Index.
Ireland is ranked second followed by Australia, New Zealand and the U.K. Charities Aid Foundation used Gallup's Worldview Poll to look at three behaviors: "giving money, volunteering time and helping a stranger."
The U.S. came out on top after being ranked fifth last year.
"Overall the World Giving Index demonstrates that the world has become a more charitable place over the last 12 months - with a 2 percent increase in the global population 'helping a stranger' and a 1% increase in people volunteering," CAF said in its press release.
The Washington Post, reporting on the survey, shows that wealth and charity don't necessarily go together. Of the world's top 20 wealthiest nations, only 5 made it into the top 20 most charitable.
And who is bringing up the rear as least charitable nations?
China, Russia, and India.


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/12/us_regains_top_spot_as_worlds_most_charitable_nation.html#ixzz1hDjsd5LE

(V): Maybe it was his journalistic style I liked so well. Don't know. I just enjoyed listening to how he said things.

Artful Dodger: Hitchens was a journalist, Dawkins is a scientist. Hitchens can be just as blunt but by trade he is more of a wordsmith. He hated religion after 9/11. This display of "tribalism" is just as present according to him in any major monotheistic religion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA55jGyq2C8&

(V):Hitchens was an intellectual and a gentleman. Dawkins is smart, but not at Hitchens level of intellect. Dawkins didn't have an anti-religion passion, he had hate. And he wore his hate on his sleeve.

Bernice: The Dead Man disowned one of his sons because he wanted to goto Tokyo's Disneyland. Another he disowned because he was to feminine.... "no good because he is like a little girl".

Which left him one son to name as the new King.. sorry, great Leader!

Artful Dodger: In which way? The Atheism or the anti religion passion he had?

Bernice: I thought so too

Artful Dodger: now that IS interesting......thanks :)

I suppose a kid in his early 20s is "entitled" to be a leader. It is no different than kings and queens and the princes that get propped up into power. However, these people are just figure heads. In reality the power resides in a technocratic apparatus, a system of bureaucrats that exercises power on behalf of the figure head.

Well, the technocratic, bureacratic apparatus is the same in every government. Western pseudodemocracies have "cabinets" with their ministers and secretaries. The difference is that in western pseudodemocracies people vote to chose their dictator for a few years, they have the option of calling him names if they don't like him, and finally he leaves only to be replaced by another one. In North Korea the dictator is imposed, nobody can call him names and he leaves only when he is dead.

The military bases are there because of fear that war could break out again. After all, North and South Korea never declared peace. They live under a cease fire, and they are both too radicalized in their ideology to concede peace to each other.

Is North Korea a threat? Historically it is and it is not. North Korea never attacked the USA, or any European nation, or Japan. If anything, it was always the other way around since it was the empires that attacked the weaker nations. The Japanese empire abused Korea for centuries,as did the Chinese empire and the Mongolian empire. However, North Korea did attack the south with the backing of the People's Republic of China and the Soviet Union. Our western empires killed 3 million North Koreans, and at the same time they want North Korea to trust the west. Would the USA or the UK trust a country that killed 3 million of their people?

Western empires want North Korea to abandon its nuclear program, even though those empires make no effort to abandon their own. Western empires deplore WMDs, even though they have arsenals that could kill every living thing in this planet. The West expects North Korea to be sane, without admitting the insanity of their own behaviour.

Bernice: Maybe he's even more of a nut.

Artful Dodger: well the Dead Mans SON has taken over and to me that is to cause much concern...."the apple never falls far from the tree"

Bernice: You're right about North Korea. I'm more that the world is on alert (as we in the US always are or should be) than worry. But you probably mean worry as in "concern" and we should be concerned who takes over etc. We are only ONE nut-job away from some serious conflicts with those nations that have the big bomb (as does N Korea). That should "worry" everyone. ;)

Bernice:
I didn't say there is nothing to worry about.
I am saying there is nothing additional to worry about than previously until the new leader of North Korea indicates there is through word or action.
If anything, the change in leadership should be viewed as an opportunity to renewed diplomacy with North Korea.
Whether I sound like someone else is hardly an issue.

Dark Prince: the americans have approx. 36,000 troops in Korea....if there is nothing to worry about why are they there....but then you are starting to sound like someone else in here....

Bernice:
Media fear mongering.
It's ridiculous. A new leader doesn't imply an imminent attack without cause. Have we, or has any country, given North Korea cause to attack?
If not, they won't.
The media is creating news merely for marketing purposes.

Übergeek 바둑이: what is wrong with a severe fine if you dont vote? We have that iv Australia and it works:(

Don't quote poor to me, those without can work for the community.

The world nervously holds it's breath

The anonymous vote is a disguise pretending that voters want it. In fact, each voter could be issued a code to maintain anonymity while publishing the votes in each district with the code to allow the voters themselves to verify accuracy and complain if not. When a count is questioned, the votes could be decoded for verification purposes.

Bernice:

This does not come as a surprise. Specially in a system in which two political parties have monopolized all political power. All representative pseudo-democracies are susceptible to this. Considering the amount of wealth and power involved, we should not be surprised if those in power want to cheat to win elections.

In many countries today Internet voting is being pushed as a way to "entice" voters to participate in elections and increase voter turnout at election time. Instead, computerized systems are easily rigged to manipulate results.

I would say the the USA is the most vulnerable for several reasons. You have a highly polarized political system with two parties that vie for nearly 50% of the vote each. You have highly technified private companies with the capability to program computerized voting systems. You have very wealthy and powerful men who have every interest in making sure that a candidate that represents their interests wins. You have a lobby system that pervades through every sector of your government. While the population votes, all political power resides in the hands of a plutocratic elite that manipulates and corrupts elected representatives. This is just an example of the undermining of the democratic process. I suppose it is up to Americans to protect their democracy and most Americans are too distracted by terror and paranoia to realize that the biggest threat to American democracy is not terrorists or communists, but rather the plutocratic elite that manipulates all western democracies.

(V): Dawkins couldn't even wear his socks.

Artful Dodger: The news about the Higgs Boson ..... Plus I think Richard Dawkins fills some of the guys boots.

Aye.. he had no room for intellectual dishonesty. The Ol' journalist streak in him.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the death of Christopher Hitchens. So I will. It's a very sad sad day. The world has lost a powerful voice. His intellect resides at the very top with the very brightest. His rhetorical skills were unmatched but by the very few. The world now has a hole in it that won't be easily filled. RIP

Artful Dodger: It's more of a case of what is considered liberal to the US version of the idea. Our PM (conservative) is in full support of the NHS, as are about 99.99 of politicians. Considering some of the reasons for setting up the NHS and other social systems, it would be considered an insult to many who have served or contributed towards the victory of both world wars. As well as several dozen nails in the coffin for any major UK political party to announce it wants to disband it. UK history lessons teach of the poor houses, the deaths before we got social systems and the NHS.

Plus even the likes of the CBI acknowledge the health of the working population is a asset to businesses.

.. the usual argument in the end comes to how to run things.

As to progressive.. the most would in my mind be the SNP, as they won the right for Scotland to rule itself rather than London. But that is the same as being a State in the USA.

But.. I have to say the word progressive has different meanings. Technically there is no UK equivalent to the US. Your whole political system in some forms is alien to the UK.

eg.. unending tv commercials come elections is not allowed. Sure politicians can get on tv shows or be interviewed, but that is upto the TV stations. Lobbying like in the USA is illegal in the UK. Anybody caught red handed (but not slightly pink handed) is gone, possibly even made an example of... ie not allowed to resign and sacked or even actually facing criminal charges.

... I say "even" after the expenses scandal. Too many MP's would have been sacked if they hadn't been allowed to hand back their expenses money. I also wonder why all those big national building companies were not all in court, rather than the few out of 500+ caught fixing bid prices and other fraud, which cost the public and private sector.

(V): And what of US progressives? What is your equavalent?