(V): Banks are not the problem. Government is. Regulations are in effect, but not followed. In some cases, the government forced bank policy to act against sound financial sense. Many banks saw only dollar signs and went along. Some got greedy. Many didn't. Credit Unions are still strong. I have all my money in a local credit union. Investing in my community. Bank greed is a symptom of a deeper problem. So your only 1/2 right on that point.

Bernice:

Artful Dodger: Greece is a strange case, due to much of the country being owned by the Greek Church. As a general example it's pretty crap. Yes in the UK we have problems.. as do all modern economies.

The failure of economies is due to the banks... a capitalist system with no or little regulation at the time, as we were told that they were trustworthy.

The USA is already bust. If it were not for the Chinese and others buying your debt it would be more evident. Something that was started back in the 80's under Raygun and no Pres or US government since has had the balls to stand upto those who choose to manipulate the US economic system just so 1% of Americans can get loads of extra cash.

In real terms the other 99% of Americans have had their income drop allowing for inflation, etc... just so 1% can see their income rise.

Artful Dodger: thank god for Australia :)

(V): And Europe is going broke. You can only give away so much money before you saturate the system. You know that. One look to Greece is all you need to see how badly a system can fail. You Brits aren't doing so well either. And the USA is heading that way fast.

That could be said of the many attempts at a pure capitalist society. That is why Britain adopted some form of socialism when it came to the welfare of it's people.

It was found that even with Conservative Christian policies on giving to those in need (about a 10% donation) ... was not enough. It was the Quaker Bankers who contributed much and founded good society, and in some instances their rejection of capitalism still 100 years on has an impact and contribution to those seeking to better themselves.

If Bankers today went by the Quaker Banker code there would be honesty and none or little fraud, the Likes of Madoff would be unheard of.

btw.. it could be said going by recent events, that a pure capitalist society is just a destructive as a pure socialist state.

But seeing as both sides of the coin have been interfering with each other. Has there been any pure socialist/capitalist society in the last 100 years?

There are different definitions for socialism.
some are Marxist, but many are not.
The failure or success of a system in a particular country may have little to do with economic factors.
Other factors may include internal corruption, overpopulation, external pressure such as foreign support of coup attempts and sanctions.
Consider that a poor country may have been poor before adopting its current economic strategy.

The following countries adopted a socialist economic model. I don't see imminent collapse or increased paralysis compared to their previous economic state.
Bangladesh since 1971
Guyana transitioning from capitalism to socialism 1980-96
India since 1947
Portugal since 1974
Sri Lanka since 1978
Tanzania since 1964

@AynRandBot
Ayn Rand Bot
Instead of prosperity, socialism has brought economic paralysis and/or collapse to every country that tried it.

Übergeek 바둑이:
He is running to sell books and speeches.
He is no politician and has no expectation of getting the nomination much less becoming president.
The point about the lie detector is not about whether Herman is guilty of sexual indiscretions. I couldn't care less about that. The point is about the dishonesty in the campaign ad itself. Herman did NOT take a legitimate lie detector test. It was software used on the videos of Herman and his accuser. I think the reliability of the software and its application on video material is questionable at best.

Dark Prince:

People do things that they regret later in life.

Herman Cain will of course deny involvement with those women because he wants to be president.

In a perfect world people would be able to distinguish his private life from what he can offer as a poltiician, but people are swayed by personal details in a candidate's life.

I think that somebody in the Republican party wants Herman Cain out of the election. It has been claimed that the inital leaks of Cain's indiscretions came from the Perry campaign. At this point the one who benefits the most is Romney.

Regardless of that, Herman Cain would alienate the Hispanic vote because he openly proposed building an electrified fence across the border with Mexico. That would alienate the 17% of the voters who are Hispanic.

If Herman Cain were to be nominated for the Republican party, Obama is sure to win. "Here is the man who harrassed all those women, kept a mistress for several years, and wants to build a fence to keep Hispanics out." The voting public might not be as discerning, and reelect Barrack Obama easily.

Herman Cain refuses to concede. He keeps denying the allegations, in spite of several women coming forward to disclose the nature of the settlemetns that occurred out of court. If Herman cain was smarter, he would simply own up to his mistakes, apologize, and then point out to the fact that in spite of his mistakes, he has the capacity to be president. Instead all his denials make him look shifty. There are times when honesty and admitting one's mistakes is the winning political move.

"one of the foremost lie detector experts in America said about Herman Cain.”

That lie detector expert is an Atlanta private investigator who WGCL enlisted three weeks ago to analyze Cain’s denial of Sharon Bialek‘s sexual harrassment allegations.

Using “$15,000 software,” the P.I. concluded that Cain was not lying when he denied Bialek’s allegations at a press conference held after she came forward. On the other hand, the software listed Bialek’s account of Cain reaching for her genitals as having a “high risk” for lying."

There is no evidence that this lie detector software can reliably detect lies or truth from video. It is BS!

Bernice:
http://www.401k-and-ira-retirement.com/
It's an investment retirement account that an employer may or may not match contributions usually up to a certain percentage. If the employer matches contributions, it can be a great investment. If not, it carries virtually the same risks as IRA accounts.

Artful Dodger: Could you please explain to me just what exactly is the above and how does it work?

I keep hearing it on TV progs and am curious....
thanks :)

He is an American hero!

Übergeek 바둑이: "Atheists see objective truths as just being without the need for a creator or giver. The sun IS. Science can describe how a sun is formed, how it functions, etc. Science cannot prove whether God made the sun or not, because science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. Thus the atheists says: the SUN is and there is no need for any God to have created. Whether the atheist is right or wrong is a matter of faith."

I think God takes this with a shrug ;)

(V): probably an other expert of the internets. I'd rather thrust google news than bbc..

Artful Dodger: I'd rather trust Reuters then a blogger who takes his "facts" from Daily Mail. If we are to trust the word of the Daily Mail, then you have to accept (as your blogger does) as fact the view of the paper on Palin, Bachmann and many of your heros being complete morons living in la la land. :)

"There is a new paper on Science Express that examines the constraints on climate sensitivity from looking at the last glacial maximum (LGM), around 21,000 years ago [Schmittner et al (2011)] (SEA). The headline number (2.3ºC) is a little lower than IPCC’s “best estimate” of 3ºC global warming for a doubling of CO2, but within the likely range (2-4.5ºC) of the last IPCC report. However, there are reasons to think that the result may well be biased low, and stated with rather more confidence than is warranted given the limitations of the study."

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/11/ice-age-constraints-on-climate-sensitivity/#more-9939


-Since October we know that 2010 the worldwide co2-emissions soared as fast as never before, for 6 %.
-At the same time we heard about the surface of the arctic ice (smaller as ever).
-A new study shows on the basis of the heatwaves and forest fires in Russia 2010, that the global warming trend is influencing the weather system.
-The IPCC presented a survey warning of strong rains, droughts, sea level and more heavy storms on nov. 18.
-According to prognoses, most of all it's the south of Africa threatened by floods, water shortages and bad harvests.
-The efforts to climate protections are bigger in emerging countries as in our crashing countries (lol joke, sort of).
-The UN-Climate conference in Durban is not a ecological happening. Lots of governments send their responsible for foreign affairs and economic policy, not their environment secretaries.

The human contribution to climate still stands by my informations, but that's not even the point. Our governing class is still grinding us down to a nub.

10) "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."

9) "I am in favor of cutting taxes under any circumstances and for any excuse, for any reason, whenever it's possible."

8) "The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit."

7) "When everybody owns something, nobody owns it, and nobody has a direct interest in maintaining or improving its condition. That is why buildings in the Soviet Union -- like public housing in the United States -- look decrepit within a year or two of their construction..."

6) "There is all the difference in the world, however, between two kinds of assistance through government that seem superficially similar: first, 90 percent of us agreeing to impose taxes on ourselves in order to help the bottom 10 percent, and second, 80 percent voting to impose taxes on the top 10 percent to help the bottom 10 percent -- William Graham Sumner's famous example of B and C decided what D shall do for A. The first may be wise or unwise, an effective or ineffective way to help the disadvantaged -- but it is consistent with belief in both equality of opportunity and liberty. The second seeks equality of outcome and is entirely antithetical to liberty."

5) "When the United States was formed in 1776, it took 19 people on the farm to produce enough food for 20 people. So most of the people had to spend their time and efforts on growing food. Today, it's down to 1% or 2% to produce that food. Now just consider the vast amount of supposed unemployment that was produced by that. But there wasn't really any unemployment produced. What happened was that people who had formerly been tied up working in agriculture were freed by technological developments and improvements to do something else. That enabled us to have a better standard of living and a more extensive range of products."

4) "Nobody spends somebody else's money as carefully as he spends his own. Nobody uses somebody else's resources as carefully as he uses his own. So if you want efficiency and effectiveness, if you want knowledge to be properly utilized, you have to do it through the means of private property."

3) "Inflation is taxation without legislation."

2) "The great danger to the consumer is the monopoly -- whether private or governmental. His most effective protection is free competition at home and free trade throughout the world. The consumer is protected from being exploited by one seller by the existence of another seller from whom he can buy and who is eager to sell to him. Alternative sources of supply protect the consumer far more effectively than all the Ralph Naders of the world."

1) "(T)he supporters of tariffs treat it as self-evident that the creation of jobs is a desirable end, in and of itself, regardless of what the persons employed do. That is clearly wrong. If all we want are jobs, we can create any number -- for example, have people dig holes and then fill them up again, or perform other useless tasks. Work is sometimes its own reward. Mostly, however, it is the price we pay to get the things we want. Our real objective is not just jobs but productive jobs -- jobs that will mean more goods and services to consume."

(V): Sure Jules. That must be it. "MY" source lies and of course, "YOUR" source is spot on.

The Canadian government dismissed the Kyoto Protocol on climate change as a thing of the past on Monday, but declined to confirm a media report that Canada will formally withdraw from the protocol before the end of this year.

"Kyoto is the past," Environment Minister Peter Kent told reporters in Ottawa, describing the decision by Canada's previous Liberal government to sign up for the protocol as "one of the biggest blunders they made".

Andrew MacDougall, a spokesman for Prime Minister Stephen Harper declined to comment on Canada's plans, but said a protocol that doesn't include major greenhouse gas emitters China and the United States "will not work."

"Canada will not sign on to a new agreement that does not include all major emitters," he said.


>>it seems your sources lie Art<<

Artful Dodger: The BBC is engaged in a cover up!!..... .... maybe they just remember the effects of Acid Rain on the UK and Europe and therefore side on those who think pollution can effect our climate.

You've heard of that nice side effect of pollution haven't you?

Rain that'll kill trees. Or has that part of of human pollution history been missed in the USA??

"The UK Daily Mail has actually been doing real journalism"

Then their view that American Conservatism is nuts and corrupt holds true then?

November 28, 2011
Global Warming Bubble is Popping
James Lewis


Hoo, boy, as Mad Magazine used to say.
Remember that old Market Crash of 2008? It started very slowly when some investors got suspicious about empty mortgages (wonder why?) wrapped in layers and layers of tin foil, then told some others about their doubts, and more and more and then BANG! Markets panicked, John McCain lost, Obama won on sheer unmitigated gall and nothing more.
In math-physics this is called a "phase change, "and it doesn't just happen with water molecules locking together to make ice crystals and acres of Lake Michigan all going Crack! when the water temps drop below zero C. It also applies to avalanches, demand-and-supply markets (including political ones), and scientific "consensus" based on dubious evidence.
The 5,000 internal emails among "scientists" in the UK -- Climategate 2.0 -- are proving to be the tipping point. This story is now moving at warp speed.
In the UK the Prime Minister's office has just run up the white flag of surrender.
The BBC Organ of Propaganda is now a target of the British press, who seem to remember what news coverage is for. See here.
Excellent blow-by-blow coverage is being provided by Climate Depot.
The UK Daily Mail has actually been doing real journalism -- a disappearing commodity in Crony Socialism.
Here are today's MailOnline headlines:


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/11/global_warming_bubble_is_popping.html#ixzz1f0woq7sE

November 28, 2011
Another blow for warmist fraud: Canada pulling out of Kyoto Protocols
Thomas Lifson


Canada is reported to be planning tom announce it is leaving the Kyoto Protocols, intended to reduce CO2 emissions in the hope of halting global warming, which hasn't occurred in the last decade, according to theories which lack actual scientific proof. The private Canadian CTV television network reports:
Canada will announce next month that it will formally withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol, CTV News has learned.
The Harper government has tentatively planned an announcement for a few days before Christmas, CTV's Roger Smith reported Sunday evening.
The developments come as Environment Minister Peter Kent prepares for a climate conference in Durban, South Africa that opens on Monday, with delegates from 190 countries seeking a new international agreement for cutting emissions.
Issues on the agenda include extending the Kyoto emission targets, a move being championed by Christiana Figueres, head of the UN climate secretariat.
Kent said in the House of Commons on Nov. 22 he won't sign a document at the Durban conference that extends the Kyoto targets.
"Canada goes to Durban with a number of countries sharing the same objective, and that is to put Kyoto behind us," Kent said
The global warming emperor has no clothes, and now a member of the G-8 is going to be saying so, if this report is correct.


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/11/another_blow_for_warmist_fraud_canada_pulling_out_of_kyoto_protocols.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#ixzz1f0s4ICtL

gogul:

Artful Dodger: An absolutely beautiful place, imagine the highlands forestet climate change, noo not true lol

gogul: Go Scotland!!!

It's to be raging to have no single line of reasonable news from hungary in the english language. Shame on you.

Together we can make Scotland better. http://www.snp.org/

gogul:

Artful Dodger: well said.

lmao

(V): Well the point is that the BBC engaged in a cover up and altered the truth. They lied.

Artful Dodger: Your blogger quotes 5,200 emails.... .... .... the actual figure stolen (and the police are investigating) was over 200,000 ....

"...which are encrypted, and no password is provided. Presumably, this is to protect the individuals involved - or simply because the material is so non-controversial or boring that it's not worth releasing..."

****From the Daily Mail****

All the emails date back to before 2009 and not as your blogger states... "shed light for the first time on an incestuous web of interlocking relationships between BBC journalists and the university’s scientists."

But seeing as many of those working at the BBC probably attended the University, it's no surprise there is a relationship. Just like we in the UK know there is a relationship between going to "OxBridge" and getting a good Civil service job.

(V): Well now you can say you heard of the corrupt BBC

Artful Dodger: .... In the UK we hear more about how News Corp took part in a systematic campaign of phone hacking and blackmail to get stories.

Last I heard James Murdoch faces a recall into accusations from witnesses he knew, despite him saying he didn't. That News Corp is willing to sacrifice The Sun and The Times if needed to save it's more lucrative satellite and internet business arms.

What do you have to say to critics of Fox News who regard it as a tool of the right wing?

I always love questions like that, because no one ever says, "I don't like Fox News." They say, "What do you say to the critics?" In the old days, major media was outrageously liberal, but they owned all the players on the teams, they owned the ball, they owned the stadium. And when Fox News shows up to play, everyone else wants to take the ball and go home. You hear nothing but whining about Fox News because they're kicking everybody's butt. And I love that. The people who whine about Fox News are hypocrites — they say they're totally tolerant, but when they run into someone who doesn't share their assumptions, they say, "Fox News is evil, and it must be stopped."

(V): duh, to what extend?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO8eubj23dQ

Loophole???

Mars Science Laboratory Lifts Off for Red Planet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jEXoMpmfJcM

... The emails – part of a trove of more than 5,200 messages that appear to have been stolen from computers at the University of East Anglia – shed light for the first time on an incestuous web of interlocking relationships between BBC journalists and the university’s scientists, which goes back more than a decade.

They show that University staff vetted BBC scripts, used their contacts at the Corporation to stop sceptics being interviewed and were consulted about how the broadcaster should alter its programme output.

... BBC insiders say the close links between the Corporation and the UEA’s two climate science departments, the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and the Tyndall Centre for Climate Research, have had a significant impact on its coverage.

‘Following their lead has meant the whole thrust and tone of BBC reporting has been that the science is settled, and that there is no need for debate,’ one journalist said. ‘If you disagree, you’re branded a loony.’



Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2011/11/27/latest-climategate-emails-bbc-cahoots-climategate-scientists#ixzz1evJylwWl

Artful Dodger: Hey.. I'm from England. We've had our time of Christianity being "it" and "untouchable"... what a mess that led us into!! lmao

(V): Well that's good then. Case closed.

Artful Dodger: True.. I've not read it all seeing as I've not bought it. But as you've said.

>>"Not being a huge fan of the deeper math concepts (because it's not a skill I possess) I still know enough to be fascinated with just how precise math can work and solve deep mysteries."<<>>"I don't understand the book fully"<<

........... so>>"and you can come to a full conclusion. Never mind that you haven't read his book or considered his ideas in any deep way."<<

I don't need to. I have no need to read a book to prove it's ok to believe in God.

(V): Good. That was quick. A few minutes looking at a very short preview and you can come to a full conclusion. Never mind that you haven't read his book or considered his ideas in any deep way. I would have expected as much.

So that ends that@!

Artful Dodger: He's not exactly using high level maths is he from what I saw in the Amazon preview...

... "Faith = (mind) + (heart) + (will)

imho ... he's just getting his bit of the Christianity gravy train than anything else. I can make similar easily enough.

God's faith = XY x 10^Z

Get him to answer that one ;)

(V): He's a Ph.D from Purdue Univ. A smart guy. Not that that makes him right. But interesting at least. To save you time, here are some links.

https://www.facebook.com/Dr.MarvinBittinger
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Bittinger,%20Marvin

his books that are widely used....so he's no slouch

http://marvinbittinger.com/
http://thefaithequation.com/
http://www.facultylinc.com/bittinger-marvin-l/
http://www.amazon.com/Introductory-Intermediate-Algebra-Bittinger-Worktext/dp/0321613376/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

(V): I found the book. I'll look for a link ;)

(V): Just a small correction. Argues the existence of God and proves the existence are two very different things. No one can "prove" God exists IMO.