Übergeek 바둑이: Over here if someone acted like that on a show... sacked. It does not matter about the apology it just is a step to far in terms of bad taste.

But.. I guess the hate of others towards Obama justifies his kid being used in a bad joke, in the minds of those who hate Obama that is.

Artful Dodger: No... you brushed it aside. seems you've turned liberal. At least that is what you keep accusing those who do not support you in your opinion. Just as you seem to brush aside that the modern terrorists from Islamic faiths are a creation of America and other western countries, who abused a religion and created terrorists to kill Soviet troops. Blame Raygun and the CIA if anyone.

(V):

> I just thought.. is this change of subject just leaving this question unanswered??

The answer is that in that particular radio broadcast Glenn Beck was at his worst. There is no way anyone could justify his actions there. It is why the topic was brushed aside. What could anyone say to justify Glenn Beck? Glenn Beck did apologize later. It was the least he could do.

.......Pilate appears in all four Canonical gospels in association with the responsibility for the death of Jesus. In Matthew, Pilate washes his hands to show that he was not responsible for the execution of Jesus and reluctantly sends him to his death.[4] Mark, depicting Jesus as innocent of plotting against the Roman Empire, portrays Pilate as extremely reluctant to execute Jesus, blaming the Jewish priestly hierarchy for his death and washing his hands not of Jesus (as in Matthew) but of the Sadducees and of any association with their actions........

Good Muslim, Bad Muslim: America, the Cold War, and the Roots of Terror

"Labeling us, and our acts, as terrorism is also a description of you
and your acts," bin Laden said recently. "Our acts are a reaction to
your acts." In this meandering rumination on modern-day terrorism,
Mamdani takes a controversial step by agreeing with bin Laden, at least
on this point; he argues that groups like al-Qaeda are generally
motivated by legitimate political grievances with U.S. foreign policy.
"In a nutshell," Mamdani writes, "the U.S. government decided to harness
and even to cultivate terrorists" during the latter half of the Cold
War as it sought to roll back the Soviet Union’s global influence. Now,
with that legacy coming back to haunt its creators, Mamdani concludes
that "no Chinese wall divides ‘our’ terrorism from ‘their’ terrorism.
Each tends to feed the other."

Politicizing notions of Islam by differentiating between secular,
Westernized ("good") Muslims and fanatical, medieval ("bad") Muslims,
Mamdani argues, misrepresents the often apolitical character of Islam.
It also dangerously ignores cold war-era American complicity in the
turbulence of the Muslim world through the waging of proxy wars,
particularly the one in Afghanistan in which, says Mamdani, the CIA
created Osama bin Laden.

"Forget the huffingtonpost link for now, we'll come back to that.

Yes, we should forget it because that is the one where Glenn Beck says that Obama hates black people, but then, he was just ridiculing Obama's daughter. I guess it doesn't count in your eyes."

I just thought.. is this change of subject just leaving this question unanswered??

Artful Dodger:

All I can say is if I generalize about Christians fundamentalists, you do so with Moslems. There are good Chistians (the vast majority) and there are a few destructive Christian zealots (like David Koresh).

Likewise there are good Moslems (the vast majority) and there are the zealots who engage in terrorism. If every Moslem were a terrorist, the USA would have no hope of winnig because there would be over 1 billion terrorists against the USA. Islamis terrorists are a small minority of what otherwise is a mostly peaceful religion.

Fundamentalist Islamic terrorists use the literal Interpretation of the Koran as justification for their actions. Likewise, some extremist fundamentalist Christians use the Bible as justification for their actions too.

Christians are not perfect. If they were, Chistians would never commit crimes or sins. They would never contradict themselves. Anybody who even remotely understands the Sermon on the Mount could never justify killing anybody under any circumstances. Yet many Christians have read it and they still justify wars and politically motivated killing (like the killing of communists during the Cold War or the killing of terrorists during the War on Terror). Christians are not immune to brushing aside their most cherished beliefs when politics and economics come into play.

If you as a Christian take a self-righteous stance and point the finger at others (like Moslems), you should not be surprised when others turn around and point the finger at Christians.

Artful Dodger:

> That's because those like you on the LEFT are so dishonest you'll stretch anything to make your lame points.

And the religious right in the USA does not stretch the truth? How quickly you forget how the USA sees itself as a Christian nation, and how religious leaders in the USA advocated the war. George W. Bush made the war a Christian crusade against "Islamic terrorism", and the religious right bought it. Then, when it was shown that the WMD claims were false and manufactured, the religious right went on to hide their heads in the sand and make lame excuses. Oh, it was OK to take out Saddam and the religious overtones of the Bush admnistration had nothing to do with it. Christianity had nothing to do with it anyway. We just go back to our churches and forget the whole thing, because it was somebody else who did the killing on our behalf. What matters is what Jesus taught, not the fact that before going on the battlefield, our soldiers lowered their head to pray to Jesus.

Here is your assignment. Prove to me that christians are NOT violent and cruel when it suits their political and economic interests. Prove to me that christians don't brush aside their scriptures when it is convenient. One thing is the New Testament, and another is what Christians actually do. Let's conveniently separate the two, then Christianity remains unscathed.

Artful Dodger:

Perhaps I did not make my point clearly. All I said is that fundamentalists interpret scripture literally, and use scripture to justify their actions.

The New Testament has no references to rape or murder being acceptable. There are some references to slavery and slaves submitting to their masters, particularly is some of the writings by Paul.

Christians are different. When a Christian commits a crime, it is seen as external to the religion. He is a sinner, without reflecting on the scriptures themselves.

I will say this. Christian fundamentalists do use the Old Testament as a source of justification for their actions. For example, David Koresh used the Old testament extensively in justifying the sexual abuse of young girls.

A lot of Christians also believe in "biblical inerrancy", the belief that everything in the Bible is accurate, right and true. Many of these people interpreted the Bible to justify things such as the Iraq War and the atrocities that went on there and elsewhere. Christians are not immune to contradictions between scriptures and their actions.

4 So Moses said, “This is what the LORD says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. 7 But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any person or animal.’ Then you will know that the LORD makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel.

Our God commits genocide!!??!!

OT or NT .. it's still the same God.

Artful Dodger: Still OUR GOD WHO IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE IT!!

Artful Dodger: Yes... who trained these "terrorists" to be such good fighters. We did. We trained them to kill others. Did we wash our hands afterwards?

"The best jules could do was go back in time - way back."

Uganda is a current problem in which many African churches are extreme. We had cases in the UK of Christian abusing children in the name of God, calling them "witches".

A sin is a sin. Making one's enemies sins bigger does not in the eyes of God (as far as I remember from scripture) make yours any less.

Artful Dodger:

> Give some current examples of Christians blowing up planes, gunning down children, shooting rockets at unarmend civilians, blowing themselves up at market, stoning or lashing offenders.

What about a Christian president and his Christian cabinet ordering war planes to another country, then sending 400,000 civilians to their death? Did not George W. Bush said that the US was engaged in a crusade?

"This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."

I suppose there is no contradiction between claiming to be a Christian and then openly advocating a war that kills hundreds of thousands.

People sometimes forget that the Old Testament is full of examples of killing, rape and abduction of women. For example:

Judges 21:8-14

8 Then they asked, “Which one of the tribes of Israel failed to assemble before the LORD at Mizpah?” They discovered that no one from Jabesh Gilead had come to the camp for the assembly. 9 For when they counted the people, they found that none of the people of Jabesh Gilead were there.
10 So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.
13 Then the whole assembly sent an offer of peace to the Benjamites at the rock of Rimmon. 14 So the Benjamites returned at that time and were given the women of Jabesh Gilead who had been spared. But there were not enough for all of them.

Thus the Israelites murdered all those men and their wives, then took their virgin daughters who were forcibly married to the Bejaminites. Murder, abduction and in many cases, rape. I doubt those women wilfully consented considering that their families had been murdered.

Numbers 31: 7-20

7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.
15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
19 “Anyone who has killed someone or touched someone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives. 20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood.”

Midianite virgins were abducted after the killing of their families. Then the sin was purified by merely "purifying themselves" on the 3rd and 7th days. Now a pattern of murder, abduction and rape is emerging. Obviouly it was culturally acceptable in that era.

Deuteronomy 20:

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

Pillage, plunder, murder, rape, slavery and genocide. These are the laws of war from Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 22

These are some of my favorites. If a man accuses his wife of not being a virgin and she is found guilty, she is to be stoned to death:

20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Consensual sex between a man and a married woman or a virgin demands the death sentence:

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

My favorite is this:

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

A man can rape a virgin, pay her father and marry her. Thus a woman is forced to marry her rapist and live with him for the rest of her life.

We notice that in essence, fundamentalists are applying laws from the Old Testament literally. This is true among Islamic fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists alike. Those who interpret scripture literally are bound to read these passages and use them as an excuse for cruelty and brutality.

Tuesday: ... and sell books/dvd's justifying they are right via the likes of "True Christians"(tm)...

Artful Dodger: Capitalism.. Conservatism as in the war against Communism.

And btw... "What other religion actually celebrated the 9/11 attacks," ... some Christians celebrated the event and still celebrate the deaths of all the American soldiers who die on foreign soil.

"What other religion has verses in its holy book that remind men of their divine permission to beat their wives and rape their slaves?"

...... The Bible!?! .. in the sense of how some have taken to interperate it's divine message of the man being the head of the household over the ages..... Christians. How long ago is it Women had to fight for the right to vote?

(V): Do we really want to know?

Mousetrap: I wonder how big the parts shop is for that show??

(V): Your not kidding Real Housewifes? They should call it Fake Housewifes, everything about them is fake

Mousetrap: It'd beat Real Housewifes!!

Mousetrap: They over did the intensity and attitude a bit in that prog. Many of the religious groups are against the attitude and anti gay laws. Yet the hard Conservative element of Christian church's ... .. it seems from further research appears to be a regional thing. Most countries in the region come down hard on gays!!

Politics (Artful Dodger, 2009-09-25 05:36:06)
Artful Dodger (hide)
show this user posts | show thread | link
Subject: Re:
Pedro Martínez: Glen Beck is my hero.
Reply (box)

Politics (Artful Dodger, 2009-02-11 06:15:53)
The Usurper: I'm not a big fan of Rush. But do like Hannity but don't watch him much. O'Reilly is my hero. My favorite is Glenn Beck. He used to work for CNN.

Artful Dodger: I'm sure you've said he's your hero!! ..... after swapping from Bill O'Reilly who was your hero.

Artful Dodger:

> Forget the huffingtonpost link for now, we'll come back to that.

Yes, we should forget it because that is the one where Glenn Beck says that Obama hates black people, but then, he was just ridiculing Obama's daughter. I guess it doesn't count in your eyes.

> Here's a clue for you and others who are still not getting it: Beck NEVER said Obama hates black people (in the same way you never said it).

I am sure he never said it, except it is his voice in the radio show. Let's for a moment suppose that I am an idiot and I am failing to get the point. If he did not say it in the post about the BP oil spill, what about the one where he mock's Obama's daughter? You can make excuses for the BP spill post, but how do you excuse the Malia Obama post?

I know you admire Glenn Beck. I think he is a smart man. I disagree with his political views, but it does not mean that he lacks knowledge or merit. I think he just lacks good judgement. In his desire to provoke he puts his foot in his mouth more often than not. Still, he has made enough racially insensitive comments to make me wonder just how far his prejudice extends.

The Col: Sounds like a good series

Mousetrap: I'm personally inviting any hot women to find out what it's like to be straight in Toronto ...............sorry mouse, couldn't resist

(V): There was a program on Tv the other week about it. The narrator who is gay himself went over to find out what it really was like to be gay in Uganda and everyone he spoke too really hated gays.

Artful Dodger:

Sure, I am wrong, then how do you explain what he did in the radio show when he was mocking Malia Obama's voice?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/28/glenn-beck-attacks-presid_n_593587.html

"Daddy? Why do you hate black people so much?"

Who is missing the point? Me and my "ultra liberal" mind? Like I said before, Glen Beck can sound honest and smart through all of his sarcasm. But when stops thinking about what he says, he shows a side of his thinking that points to his deep seated prejudices. In reality it is not only him. Rush Limbaugh has said some things that make Glenn Beck look tame.

Artful Dodger:

I understand that Mr. Beck is getting at how both Bush presidents were hammered on accounts of the Exxon-Valdez and Hurricaine Katrina, while Barrack IObama was left relatively unscathed by the BP oil spill. However, Mr. Beck does clearly say that the president hates black people, and further repeats it in that joke at Malia Obama's expense. It is all I am getting at. Beck has called the president a racist both against black and white people. He called justice Sotomayor a racist too. There is a pattern there.

Artful Dodger: Yes. Many a time I have.. But you never understand...

Must be an ideological black hole or something.

Artful Dodger: Perhaps you can explain the context and how you see it rather than just say ..."you still have it wrong"

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064rdvK16TQ

Artful Dodger:

> btw, you got that wrong. YOu really should know what you're talking about first before you post about it.
> This was NOT the main thrust of the full context. So try again.

Here is the original from Glenn Beck's website. Note that in his website Glenn Beck edited a sentence out "Is it the white part of Barrack Obama?". Obviously Mr. Beck did not want to appear racist once he had time to think about what he said live in his radio show.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/41203/

It is clear, Beck said that Obama hates black people. Well, you can justify this on accounts of the Gulf Oil spill, but what about the tasteless jokes at Malia Obama's expense? "Daddy why do you hate black people?" Clearly Mr. Beck thinks Obama is a racist who hates both black and white people.

Well, the point I was tyring to make is that Mr. Beck has been attacking the president for a long time now, grasping at anything he could to discredit the president. In accusing the president of being a racist, Mr. Beck projects his own racial prejudice.

Artful Dodger: Really.. I have to shut up because you say so!!

Übergeek 바둑이: They did DNA tests on several 'white folk' in the UK as part of an experiment regarding genetic heritage. The people who were tested had all expressed concerns over certain minorities and their influence in the UK.

... Their genetic heritage showed that all of them had genes that proved their family tree including such minorities and as a matter of course all 'white folk' in the UK had some DNA that could be traced back to non white folk genetic heritage.

Artful Dodger: I think[Übergeek 바둑이 has given fine examples of how Beck Manipulates things.

I can find more if you want.. and you know I'll find them.. if you are honest on the subject that is...

Glenn Beck talking about Obama's response to the oil spill in the gulf of Mexico:

"Now wait a minute. Hang on just a second. That’s James Carville talking about Louisiana. Why does Barack Obama hate black people? Is it the white part of Barack Obama? Once again, Louisiana, let me tell you something. If this was happening in the very white state of…"

In May, 2010, Beck's radio show aired a very insulting series of jokes in which Beck mocks Obama's 11-year-old daughter Malia. In it Beck insinuates that Obama hates black people.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201005280025

The most recent, and the one that cost Beck his job:

“This president, I think, has exposed himself as a guy, over and over and over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture."

“I’m not saying that he doesn’t like white people, I’m saying he has a problem. He has a - this guy is, I believe, a racist.”

The following day, Beck stood by the remarks: “I think the president is a racist.”

So President Obama hates both Black and White people.

I am no Sigmund Freud, but it seems to me that in attacking the president Glenn Beck is projecting his own hatred. Beck's vitriolic attacks are an effort to mask his own insecurities and racial prejudice.

(V):

It is not the first time Glenn Beck does this. In 2009 Sonia Sotomayor was nominated as the first female Hispanic justice of the Supreme Court. After her nomination Glenn Beck called her a racist after she insinuated that in some cases a Hispanic woman who had the life experience of a Latina might be better equipped to deal with interpretation of the law than a white male who did not have the life experience of a Latina. Glenn Beck went onto call her a racist repeatedly just based on a single comment taken out of context.

Beck has a history of racially motivated remarks. His comments on migrant Mexican workers borders on xenophobia. So does his fear of Moslems, and his hatred of President Obama. Beck has gone so far as to say that Barrack Obama chose his name because it is a deliberately unamerican name that represents the values of his "radical" father. Calling Obama a racist who hates white people is stupid. How quickly Mr. Beck forgets that Mr. Obama's mother is Caucasian. To Mr. Beck anything not remotely resembling his narrow view of "white culture" is unamerican and a threat.

While there are times when Glenn Beck might sound coherent and smart, this time around he put himself forward as somebody prejudiced and ignorant. He has no clue of what he means when he says "white culture". Does he mean German culture? Italian, French, Russian, Romanian, etc.? To him white people and white culture are the American Anglo-saxon right-wing middle class. Anything else is unamerican, and therefore a threat to that narrow view of white culture. In making this comment, as well as several other racially insensitive actions and remarks, he has portrayed himself as a xenophobe. It comes as no surprise that advertisers in and out of the USA have withdrawn their support for his show.

400 advertisers did not like "I think Obama is a racist... deep-seated hatred for white people" and hence boycotted his show.

Artful Dodger: I saw reasons why yesterday. Flicking through the news channels here I caught a glimpse of Glenn and his way of manipulating data. Same as a Conservative MP on Question Time last night. To quote a figure whilst not giving an accurate representation of what it signifies is a con. On Question Time the MP was called on his loose use of a meaningless yet leading statistics.

As to Glenn in the future, sure those who like his style will keep lining his pocket for a sound bite that makes them feel righteous over their view on America. Feeding conspiracy theories whilst those lining his pocket through 'sponsorship' line their pockets through old out of date cold war rhetorical mumblings.

As for Obama hating white folk... why? I've seen more in the way of hate towards him from white folk, I can understanding having annoyance at such can't you?

No doubt if Beck can't sell his venom through a political 'talk' show he'll turn to religion and slime his way into some church who's willing to use his manipulation as a means to get more donations.

Artful Dodger: stay out of it and let them kill themselves...it will eventually happen.

Coalition friendly fire kills 13 rebels in Libya.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/9124801/coalition-friendly-fire-kills-13-libyan-rebels/

"A NATO-led air strike killed 13 Libyan rebels, a rebel spokesman said on Saturday, but their leaders called for continued raids on Muammar Gaddafi's forces despite the "regrettable incident.""

As was reported earlier, Al Qaeda has infiltrated the rebel ranks. Is it a coincidence that NATO is bombing the rebels too? The Obama administration has admitted that CIA special forces are on the ground in Libya. If that is the case, they might be passing intelligence about the location of high ranking members of Al Qaeda's AQIM army. It should come as no surprise if we see more of these "friendly fire" incidents.

Besides, even during his early 2010 heyday, Fox was unable to generate advertising revenues to match Mr. Beck’s ratings, since no reputable company would sign on to sponsor the guy who accused Mr. Obama of harbouring a “deep-seated hatred for white people.”

Mr. Beck’s ratings plummeted 31 per cent in the first three months of 2011, compared with the same period last year. His audience among viewers in the key 25-to-54-year-old cohort plunged 38 per cent to fewer than 500,000.

Mr. Beck has still been drawing almost two million viewers during his 5 p.m. time slot, which is more than the number who tune in to the four competing cable news channels combined. But Beck diehards tend to be older, while serious political news junkies are returning again to CNN.

For months, reports have been surfacing about a souring of the relationship between Mr. Beck and Fox president Roger Ailes. Notwithstanding its “Fair & Balanced” tagline, the network owned by Australian magnate Rupert Murdoch is an unapologetic champion of the right. But Mr. Beck’s bombastic, and regularly offensive, commentary had become a drag on the Fox brand.