grenv: I disagree with the 24/22.

I agree, you're right. I'm doing too many things at once here and that one was hasty. 13/11 is vital cover for the slot. I'd never do 24/22 and slot!

So the typo was in "Split your back checkers (24/23) and slot your five-point. It " would be the 'and' which should have been 'or'. but worse, they've completely missed out the "bring a two down from the mid-point (13/11" (copied from the 3-2 above on that page) which makes that section sensible.

playBunny: Hear hear

The concern over "chatting" is ridiculous. What's the difference between making one move or ten and then chatting? I don't get it. I think your reason is likely the only one.

Czuch: Fencer's reasons.

As far as I'm concerned there's only one real reason why auto-pass can't be done and that's because the original design didn't allow for it. The method of dice-rolling is to roll them when the user accesses the page. This precludes auto-pass.

Sites that implement auto-pass roll the dice at the first opportunity. At GoldToken, for instance, if you make a move and then visit the game (non-cube) page immediately afterwards you will be able to see the dice that your opponent will be playing - whether they're online or not. By rolling the dice automatically the system is in a position to skip the move if necessary. At BrainKing, because the dice are rolled only when the player visits the page, there is no opportunity to skip the move. I reckon the changes required would be quite considerable, hence auto-pass is not an option. Any other reasoning for auto-pass being BAD is spurious.

playBunny: I disagree with the 24/22. Here is the whole text for context.

"Split your back checkers (24/23) and slot your five-point. It was right to split your back checkers until recently, when modern computer rollouts showed that slotting is usually better, but you can vary this depending on the match score."

Clearly it is comparing splitting to slotting and assuming the 13/11.

In fact later in the site it has the two options:

"Opening 24/23, 13/11 13/11, 6/5"

Czuch, Grenv: There's no doubt that slotting the five must use the one so you can assume that 24/23 is a typo and should be 24/22.

However, that opening rolls article is the easy-to-use one and is older than the Opening Move Rollouts (link at the foot of that page) which show 13/11 6/5 to be the best move for 2-1 except in the gammon-save situation.

So for a nice read use the opening rolls page and for accuracy you should go by the Rollouts page.

Czuch Chuckers: Yes good reason to chat and see the move that auto-passes, but why not make it an option? At least an option.....It would speed up the game considerably and i think many would use it.....

About seeing what was the starting double. It is completely pointless! I can't find any reason i want to see which was the starting double that happened and led to a re-roll by the system for having a non-double.....
Tell me a reason....

grenv: It also doesnt mention the 13,11 either?
Are there any other typos or mis-statements in this link as well?

Now I have something to go on about.....

One of Fencers reasons for not having it is so we can chat between moves. We even have to see when we have "lost the initial roll" and have to pass that "non turn" but at least we can still write a message!

So, my question, why cant we see when the initial roll is a double and have that opportunity to chat as well? Why is that the only instance that this site uses the 'forbidden auto pass'????????

Czuch Chuckers: I understand what it says, I am telling you it is a typo and means what I said it means.

hat is copy and pasted straight off of the link word for word, it says clearly to split the back and slot the five....

Czuch Chuckers: 2-1 would normally be 13/11 24/23

I think it probably means 13/11 is correct no matter what, and then either 24/23 OR slot the 5-point. Slotting the 5-point is better than it looks, especially if you need a gammon.

playBunny: For the roll 2,1
it says....Split your back checkers (24/23) and slot your five-point.
If you split your back checkers (thats using the 1 roll) how do you slot your 5 point with the 2 roll? I am haing a blind spot to see how this is completed?

BIG BAD WOLF: Are we talking about "auto pass" then???????

playBunny: lol! true! at least i was consequent in my mistakes :) .. or wasnt i ? :)

Hrqls: Heh heh. No worries, I read your move as you intended it. I even knew that you meant 20 when you said 19.

Czuch Chuckers:Then the dice-generator-system of Brainking, chooses again 2 numbers until they are different.....We don't see all that....

Czuch Chuckers: I believe it just automaticly rolls again and you never see it - so the dice you first see will never be doubles.

playBunny: On brainking, what happens when the two opening dice rolls are the same? I have never seen this before?

playBunny: uhm yes i meant 13-8, 24-23 :)

(i didnt check the board and am not experienced enough to know the numbers from the top of my head :))

Czuch: So on brainking the two opponents each roll one die with the highest roll going first and using the two die that were already rolled?

Correct.

So you can never get a double on the first turn?

Also correct.

Czuch: Here are the Opening Moves. To quote:

5-1: Generally, it is right to split the back checker and bring one down (24/23, 13/8). When behind in the match and a gammon win is a major plus, you might bring one down and slot your five-point (13/8, 6/5).

Ie. it's more risk than it's worth unless you need the gammon.

The 5-point is hugely important on its own, let alone the advantage of sending a blot back by 20 pips, so, if there's a chance to hit someone who slots their 5-point, GO FOR IT!

So you can never get a double on the first turn?

playBunny: So on brainking the two opponents each roll one die with the highest roll going first and using the two die that were already rolled?

Czuch, Hrqls: "i noticed before that i have to make 1 move first before i am given the option to double"

"You" being the first player to move rather than the second player making your first move. Yes, that's correct.

"i am not sure if its a standard rule for backgammon, but it seems to be that way on here"

Yep, it's a standard Backgammon rule. The choice of doubling must be made before the dice are rolled (too much advantage otherwise) and for the game's opening move the dice have already been rolled to determine who starts.

Hrqls: I tried it, and my opponents next roll had a 4 and could have hit me, but they chose not to! I am not sure if they had sound reason or if they thought I wanted them to hit me so they didnt. L.

But there are many rolls where my opponent will have to leave one open as well if they hit me....

Czuch Chuckers: i usually play 12-17 and 24-23 .... i am too chicken to place a single on 19 right away :)

Any thoughts on a play of 12 to 17 and 19 to 20?

Czuch Chuckers: ah! could be, i noticed before that i have to make 1 move first before i am given the option to double .. i am not sure if its a standard rule for backgammon, but it seems to be that way on here

Czuch Chuckers: Is there anything about not being able to double on the first move?

Czuch Chuckers: cant see anything weird .. i think you should be able to double ?

http://brainking.com/en/ShowGame?g=1404368

Czuch: That's a good question. Here's another one. Why are we not given a link so that we can know what you're talking about?

Why am I not allowed to double in a 5 game match down 0-2?

Grrr i thought it was damn obvious. Suppose you want to set up a position with GNUBG to play from it. And then would be your turn to play, etc....
So you set up a position with the dice on GNUBG's board and finish editing. So now i ask if you know 2 ways of doing that.....? I know one but i hate this way so i thought you might know any better way.....

Pythagoras: I'm not sure what you mean by "force it to play". Play it's own moves, play both players, one player when both are human? There's always the Hint button, after which you can make the best move suggested.

playBunny: Without having time to read the conversation here do you know 2 ways of forcing GNUBG to play after you set up a position with GNUBG to play?

DragonKing: You can double from the Game menu or using <Ctrl-D>. I don't do either of those - I just click the doubling cube, lolol. You can also click it to accept a double when it's offered. Decline by using the icon on the toolbar.

If the game you're following shows no play then enter the dice and gnuBg will tell you that it's no play. ;-) If you don't know the dice - such as with the game records here :-, :-/, :-(( - then just make up a dice roll that you know won't work.

DragonKing: Ok I'm replying to my own message. The info you gave me on the dice worked- I got everything to work- I just need to know how to double and how to enter NO PLAY if that is in the game record I'm looking at.... This is great so far! Thanks!

playBunny: I guess I don't undretsand what manuel dice means- do I throw dice here and then enter what the rolls was? If that is true- do I do the same for the rolls from the game or match I'm studying? In other words- player one in the game I'm looking at rolled a 5-3. How do I enter that to GNU so that I move the checkers to the points that were used in the game? Sorry to be so slow at understand this....

DragonKing: That dice chart's an easy one to answer. Click it!

What isn't so obvious is where to click. If it's white to move then click whichever pair of dice you want. If you're creating a new match or starting a new game then it matters which pair of dice you click. If you want to be the one starting tha game then click the lower and leftmost dice that gives you the number you want, ie. below the doubles. If GnuBg is to start then click the same combination but in the top left half, ie. above the doubles. for instance, clicking 2-4 will mean you start while clicking 4-2 will have GnuBg starting.

If by "playing through a game record" you mean manually entering the moves ... the human vs human should do the job just fine when you create a new match. If it's not working I don't know why. What does it do/not do?

Can anyone tell me- is there a way to set up GNU (or any of the free on line programs) to play through a game record? Go over a pro game for example? I thought i knew how by setting it to human vs human but it does not appear to be working. AND if I set the dice to manual- what do I do after that? I get that chart of all the various dice faces-but how do I use that? Thank you for all the advice everyone!

SueQ: That is great!

playBunny and Hrqls: DONE...great idea.

Hrqls:

playBunny: *nod* thats a better idea indeed :)

Hrqls, Sue, BBW: It's nice to have these links available but, please, don't clutter the top of the board with them.

It's better to do what I did with the Japanese Chess board and appropriate one of the messages as a resources area. I've done just that with one of my old messages .. http://brainking.com/en/Board?bc=26&ngi=342190 .. so you could add that link to the board header. I've only just created it so it only has what we've just been talking about. If anyone has links that they'd like me to add to it then send me a PM or post them here.

playBunny: these links are great! thanks!

(s-q/bbw: is it possible to put (a selection of) those links on top of this board?)

I don't know of anywhere that you can download GnuBg games which contain comments. It's certainly possible to make them, I just don't think anyone's done so.

Create a Backgammon favourites folder and save these. Some of the quzzes will be more relevant to you in due course.

Matches
gammoned.com - Expert Matches
Backgammon Galore - Kit Woolsey vs. Jeremy Bagai (same link as Pythagoras' 7-ganmes)
GammOnLine - World Cup Match #1 and other stuff

Quizzes
Backgammon Blunder of the Week
Ed's Backgammon Problems
Webby's Backgammon Quiz
Danish BG Fed Forum Quiz
Backgammon Brainbusters
Backgammon Problems

panda: How wonderful! Congrats to smelly socks and Kambala. Little brothers are A-OK most of the time.

Please to excuse SueQ.

Backgammon Prize - Big Sisters and Little Brothers
6 month Brainrook to the winner.

To celebrate the reuniting of an estranged brother and sister...
smelly socks and Kambala

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=13904&tri=87765&trnst=0

This is a prize tournament my husband and I are proud to endorse. Luck to everybody.

Thank you