Well to get back to the Movies topic, and also at the same time stay political.

Has anyone seen the "This Land" Cartoon which stars both Bush & Kerry?

You can view it here - It is somewhat big, but VERY FUNNY! (Note: It takes jabs at both Bush & Kerry in a very funny way!)

Well I could respond to most of that, but we are getting more and more off the subject that has been covered in other places like Unsensored Debate. (Plus I still have not had a chance to view all the link you provided below - but I do plan on as soon as I get enough free time.)

The one thing I do want to disagree with is that my parents will always have 3 children, no matter how old we get. Just because a child turn a legal age (adult) does not mean they are still not someone's children. I think they point you are trying to make is by using the world child, it paints a picture of a 9 year old, and of course we all know that 9 year olds are not being sent over to the war. But I'm not 29 years old, and I'm still the child of my parents.

I wish I had time to watch "The Factor" last night.

Actually Lawmakers by agree to go to war actually do send everyone elses children to war.

So me as a parent, if my son were to signup (if he was old enough), I would not actually send him off to war. But if I was a person who helped make this war possible, then it would be me who would be sending this solders to war. Are they actually children, or corse not - but they are someones children. And if I remember the film correctly, not sure if it is true or if I'm remembering correctly - but Moore makes the point that only 1 Congressmen had a child (adult child) over in the "war zone". Is this correct or not? I'm not sure. I think there are others in the military, but only 1 was actually out in the war zone. (But I'm not really sure about this - I would have to do more research.)

"Why is Moore's movie a side of things you won't see in the (main stream) Media?" Well that is because if the main stream media reports bad things about Bush, or makes the current administration unhappy - they as Media people will be shut out. They will not be invited to special events, special news confeces, etc... For example, when Bush made that surprise trip to Iraq on Thanksgiving (Nov 25th), he took along key media people. And who did he not take along. Anyone who was shut out of the loop. So occasionaly you will see some negative news stories on the news, but it is usually just a passing blurb..... where the news will focus on the "happy Iraqi's dancing in the street", and ignore all the familys, houses, children whos lives have been destroyed. Why? Because if American keep thinking we are going a good thing in Iraq, Bush looks good. If American start to see that War has a bad side, which (IN MY OPINION) Strongly out weighs the good side, then Bush starts to look bad.

I'm getting confused now. :-)

Like I said back in my original post, I don't remember Michael Moore saying that Bush lied about WMD, just that Bush mislead America. If Moore did say Bush lied, well then I would disagree with Moore on that point - Since Bush (and administration) were very carefull on what they said.

[This is the biggest problem with the movie. Michael Moore ignores the facts and redefines terms in order to promote his personal view of things. So what you ask? The problem is that many people will see this film and believe it is all true. That is a tragedy. The real villain is guys like Michael Moore who resort to whatever it takes, word twisting, equivocating, omission of crucial facts, to promote their personal ideology.] I actually agree with you 100% - and I always try to tell everyone who has/will see it that it is just one sided. BUT in my opinion, and I believe Michael Moores opion (plus probable many others) - this is the same that Bush (and administration) has done to get the things done that they wanted to get done also - like a war with Iraq. And it is a tragedy that so many people will just believe what Bush & Administration is leading them towards - even if Bush is very careful on what is said. The one thing I disagree with is that is the real villain is guys like Bush. Michael Moore is just trying to "expose" what he has done. And it's like 3rd graders. It's OK for Bush to mislead the public, but how dare Moore try to do the same!

[I’m not arguing here that Bush didn’t lie or intend to deceive. That is not the point I’m trying to make. My argument centers around the film Fahrenheit 9/11. I’m asserting that there is ample evidence within the film itself, that Michael Moore twists facts, presents information dishonestly, completely ignores information he obtains that doesn’t support the points he wants to make in the film (and in fact counter his points).] ---------- Yes, Michael Moore has even said he made a movie to show the side that you normally don't see in the main stream press. He admited that right up front. It would be a pretty boring movie if you see all the things you have also watched on the news for the past 3 months.

6th sense, and signs - I like both of those movies.

I have unbreakable, but I did not really like that one. It looked and sounded good, but for some reason I did not like it.

I'm not sure which films he did in the past (without going and doing a quick search), but the previews I have seen for The Village looks like it could be pretty good. (Have not heard any review or anything yet - just the preview on TV.)

["But when the Bush Administration manipulated data, that is dishonest also." Of course. But we are talking about the film Fahrenheit 911 and should stick to that. "] --------- Well one of the main reasons the film was even made was to point out the bad decisions that the Bush Administration had made. So we sort of have to look at both the film, and why the film was made to get the full picture. Moore has said his main goal of the film was to give the side of the story that the Bush Administration, and the main stream press does NOT give. (so basicly us citizans need to take a little of this side, a little of that side - and hopefully somewhere in the middle we can figure out the truth since anyone involved has probable manipulated the talk to help their cause the most.) (I see Moores film as a way to try to off-set the manipulation from the other side.)

Do I think Bush lied? No. Do I think Bush purposly misled America. Yes. Bush was very carefull with his words, his speechs. He would one minute be talking about 9/11, and terrorist. Then in the next breath he would be talking about Saddam. Even though he was carefull on what he said, I believe he manipluated what he said to get what he wanted. (Also note when I say "Bush", most of the time I mean "The Bush Administration" as a whole, not just the 1 person)

WMD - I believe the Bush Administration had data of both - that is data that said there were WMD in Iraq, and data that said there were no WMD in Iraq. So Bush, who wanted a war with Iraq took the information that best suited his need. Did he actually lie? I don't like to say that, but I do believe he knownly misled all Americans.

[When you make this statement: "Just like when Bush was deceiving America, Bush left out the information he did not want the public to know." are you willing to agree that if your statement is proven false that you "lied" to me when you said it?] -------Most of what I say, and basicly anyone else on a message board is opinions. But in my opinion, I'm 100% sure that Bush (BUSH ADMINISTRATION) left out data and fact that hurt their goal - which if you read through the Uncensored Debate board, you can read back on much about that.

[Last statement - AD a teacher or dishwasher] - now lets say I take it a step further. Lets say I have 1 person tell me you are a teacher, and another person that tells me you are a dishwasher. Would I mislead people if I just ignored the data about you being a dishwasher, and told people what I wanted to believe - that you are a teacher?

Well I have not had a chance to read all the links in the previous post, but as soon as I have some more time - I will for sure take the time to read through them. But going from memory, here are my replies to the few snippets that you provided in the post.

* "The Bin Laden family did not get to fly out the next day as Moore reported" - Now I heard this "argument" before I seen the film, and when I watched it - I did not find ANYWHERE where it said that they left the next day. I believe it said like on day 2 or 3, many (all) of the Bin Laden family were allowed to leave as soon as possible. I also think I remember it saying that the FBI did interview the family members it thought it should - but the point that I got from Moore was even if they did not think the family members had anything to do with it, Moore was making the point that they should not have been allowed to leave since they probable did have more information then they got.

* "Moore ignores facts that he doesn't want in his fiml" - Yea, that is true. Moore even admits that he tried to make a film with the information that you normally don't see in the main stream media. Just like when Bush was deciving America, Bush left out the information he did not want the public to know. This is sad, but common - and it's usually the best way to get what you want.

* "... reading story to some Sarasota second-graders..." - I don't know how this is not a fact. Moore wanted to make the point that Bush stayed there an additional 7 minutes. That is a fact. Was Bush confused? Probable - along with almost 100% of America. This was something that caugt basicly everyone off guard, and if Bush wasn't confused and ready for this attack - well then that probable would scare me even more!

* "*Moore claims that Saddam never harmed or threatened any American" - Again, I don't remember seeing this in the film, but it might be in there - I don't remeber. I was thinking that something to the effect that Saddam was not a THREAT to America was in there, but I don't remember the above. Again, haven't seen the film for awhile, so I could be wrong. (Will have to watch it again before I can comment any more.)

"Moore clearly manipulates events in his film to make his points. That is dishonest." - I agree 100%. But when the Bush Administration manipulated data, that is dishonest also. What goes around, comes around I guess. :-)

I don't have a lot of time to talk about this now, but hopefully tonight I will have more time.

AD - What parts do you think are "Flat out wrong"?

Personally I believe there are many opinions in the movie which are either right or wrong depending on what opinion you have, but I also have not done much research into everything that is mentioned in the movie.

I like the movie, but I also know that is is COMPLETELY one sided, and even Moore will agree with that.

So I believe some things were left out, but I as of right now I don't know of anything in the movie which is flat our wrong - but would love to hear what parts you think are, plus any link or information on why you think that way would be great.

Hum... starting to sound like a debate board. But hopefully we can stick to the Movies topic of Michael Moores movie, and not get into too much how bush has destoried America. (or not destroied America depending on your view.) :-)

(in my opinion) most of the movie is "fact", BUT AGAIN, just the one side.

The movie makes a lot of good & valid points, but does leave out the other side. Even though I love the movie, and would like people to be better educated by the film - I try to warn anyone I know who has seen it that it is just the one side - confuses most people I know since I want them to see it, then I try to point out the "other side" of it. :-)

AD - I'm glad to see that you will go see the movie - I know some people who are so stuck in their own world that they would never watch the film - I guess because they fear things might make since.

Hopefully everyone who see's the movie will be open minded, and also know that only 1 side is covered in the movie (Michael Moore even admits he tells the story from only the one side - basicly because the side he shows is the side that the media has refuse to cover, while the other side is continuasly covered by the media)

Anyway, glad to see open-minded people here - even if you come out of the movie and disagree with everything in it.

News Story - OK, sorry - it's 60%, not 75%

I'm almost positive that the DVD will be out BEFORE the November election - already 3 or 4 studios have been "bidding" on the rights to distribute the DVD (even though Disney in it's blackmail still gets like 75% of all profits from the movie even though they did not want to release it.)

Note - all Disney's 75% profit goes to a charity of Disney's picking. So actually think of it this way - seeing the movie is like helping a charity! :-)

(I'll see if I can find the news story that has the details that I wrote about here.) :-)

What better to scare my opponents into making a stupid move! Muhahahahaha *COUGH* *COUGH* - sorry, hair ball.

Movie List

Well for this weekend:

1)Fahrenheit 9/11 - $21 mil - in only 868 Theaters!
2)White Chicks - $19 mil - in 2726 Theaters

Anyway, I watch the movie stats a lot since I play on a site called HSX - which you buy/sell stocks to movies to increase/decrease your profolio - and I wish I would have bought more stock in Fahrenheit 9/11 since no one really thought it would do that good in so few theaters.

So far, Michael Moore's documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 has took in between $8.2 million to $8.4 million in it's first day, positioning it to be the #1 movie.

"White Chicks" took in about $1.5 million LESS the Fahrenheit 9/11 to place it second.

What makes those numbers if more remarkable is that Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in just 868 theaters - fewer then a third the number for the movie White Chicks!

Well I never had cable/satilite TV until recently - so I would buy a lot of pre-views movies from Blockbuster (or other stores), so I have slowly built up a collection of over 1,000 VHS tapes, and now about 250 DVD. BUT recently we got satilite TV, so now I rarely watch any of my movies - and will probable start trying to sell many of the VHS movies soon since I don't watch them.

Mystery, Alaska - is that about hocky? I believe that is one of the movies I own (I have over 1,000) - but it's been a long time since I watched it.

Passion will be in France - French courts refuse to ban the movie even though many people wanted it banned. (I believe it is playing.... now, or in the next few days/weeks)

Hey cool - the Movie "The Babe" about Babe Ruth the baseball player just started on TV.

I was an extra in this movie back in 1991/1992, but because the movie is so boring, I never have sat through the whole movie. (I think I'll try right now!)

N E W S - The original Star Wars Trilogy will be finaly released on a 4-disc DVD box set on Sept 21st. (That is Star Wars IV, V, and VI)

The box set will include only the 1997 "special-edition" versions of the three films - also featute commentary from Lucas - and new interviews with cast.. 4th disk will include never before seen footage & a new 2 hour documentary, plus more.

The the finaly Star Wars movie (III) will be out in theaters in May 2005.

Dennis Roadman (basketball player) is one of the players - that will make it interesting.

TV Talk (hope you don't mind including TV talk in the Movie board - but seems like the best place)

Celebrity Mole: Yucatan (Premiere tonight)

Does anyone else like the Mole? It's one of the few "reality" shows that I watch.

I use a site called Epinions.com all the time - and it is basicly a site where people can go and give opinions about almost any product - or in this case, web services.

NetFlix has over 350 reviews (Most good, some bad) - but it is always good to read all you can so you know what to expect - Epinions NetFlix Reviews

Actually while I dug around on Netflix website - I can across this "Fact Page" - which has some interesting notes about netflix.

They actually have 4 different price planes:
$13.95 Four DVDs a month, two (2) titles out at a time
$19.95 Unlimited DVDs, three (3) titles out at a time
$29.95 Unlimited DVDs, five (5) titles out at a time
$39.95 Unlimited DVDs, eight (8) titles out at a time

Plus they have 20 "shipping" centers around the US to try to make the mailing of DVD's be an overnight type thing - or close to it.

Plus If Netflix members, instead of receiving movies by mail, drove two miles each way to a rental store, they would consume 100,000 gallons of gasoline per day and release 300,000 tons of carbon dioxide emissions annually.

.... I have no idea why i'm trying to "pitch" this to people when I don't use it myself, but.... :-)

Has anyone here ever tried NetFlix.com

I believe it is only available in the US, but basicly for $20 a month (with no other fee's) - you can rent as many DVD's as you can. (Limit 3 at one time)

How it works:

They have over 15,000 movies to choose from - You go on-line to make up your movie list (Lets say you put 20 movies on your list)

They will then ship the first 3 movie to you. You then get done with 1 of the movies, you can then ship it back (Pre-paid special mailer which cost you $0.00) - and in 3-6 days you will get the next movie on your list.

I personally don't use them, but I have not heard anything bad about them - just good things. No driving to the video store - no worry about late fees (You can keep the same move for 2 months if you want - yea, it will still cost you $20 a month)

So if you are a type of person who may spend close to $20 a month at the video store - this might be something you can look into.

Yea, sully... I type quick - and usually make speelling mistackes. :-)

You know I just started Monsters Inc for my kid about 2 minutes ago (before I came here and read the new post!)

My son's favorite part is when Scully is fighting the bad guy (when the bad guy is invisable). My son copies Sully, falls on the floor, runs around the room - so that is my favorite part also... because I like to watch him! :-)

I love Monters Inc. - and it is my son's (age 2 1/2) favorite movie. He can act out almost the whole movie - will scream when someone on the movie screams, etc...

I have Drop Dead Fred.... have not watched it for years.... and now that your brought it up, I think I might dig it out and watch it again! (Have over 1200+ movies in my collection - Drop Dead Fred is like number 4 - had it for a long time) :-)

Lets start a survey

1. What is your favourite movie of the year?
2. What is your favourite movie of all time?