Why so complicated? I think the tournement creator should can set a global time frame, we say four months or so, after which he has the possibility to estimate and to finish the last running games and start the next round. This procedure can protect us from too long games.

Do you ctrl-c, ctrl-v, or do you edit-copy, edit-paste?

Hum... we are now off the subject of tournaments. Sorry all. :-)

(plus if you quit talking to me, I could play more games) :-)

Plus, anyone who used the tactics you suggested, would easily be found out as an A hole, andno one would play any tournaments with them, or they could be removed by the director.
Also if someone did that to me, it would be easy to find a way to counteract this tactic.

I think it would be rare to find that combination of people you spoke of.
Most people don't play for only one hour at a specific time every day. And the odds of that being combined with an A hole who has nothing better to do with their time than to play games to harrass other players.

Again, I also don't see how doing that would actually cause someone to time out in the first place.

Another point, many games do not lend themselves to overall time limits because the amount of moves are not finite.

I type fast - 90wpm (100+ on a good day)

<grin>

Which part do you not understand - I'll try to help.

The suggestion - a timer that runs for every minute you do not play.

The good person - Plays every day, usually the same time, take for example 7pm to 8pm and playes all their games.

The bad person - knows this persons schedule, waits until 8:01 after they sign out and plays their game.

Timer starts to run on "good player" - 23 hours taken from clock. Good player makes his daily move at 7pm the next day.

Bad player - Waits until 8:01 until the good player signs out and plays the game again. Bad player only had 1 hour taken off the time.

Yet again, the good player is off for anouther 23 hours (making the total of 46 hours off the main clock)

(Well keep doing this example for awhile, and the time will add up quickly - and if there is a limit of lets say 50 total hours, well after 2 1/2 days, the game would end.)

A suggestion I made to hopefully make it so the good person to not time out is to have a 24 hour grace period before the timer starts to run.

Does that help.

I still don't see how playing one minute after someone is going to actually hurt them.
Under your scenario, both players would at least be making one move per day.
I don't think anyone wants a tournament where you can get timed out while making a move every day.

LJ's suggestion is to have a game time limit - which as I understand it, for each minute you do not make a move, it takes away a minute.

So if you are given lets say 50 hours to make all your moves in a game, I was just showing how someone could watch and easly take away 23 hours from someone else, which would cause them to lose the game. (which is why the suggestion of a 24 hour grace before the main game timer starts).

And your are exactly right - if the tournament is set up, you probable do not want the person who moves daily to time out - which is what I was pointing out could happen! :-)

So what if someone did that and made you look like a slow player?

At least you would be making one move per day, which I don't think anyone is complaining about, and would not cause that person to time out.


It is the person who either has too many games, or purposly slow plays, and ends up dragging out a 4 day limit into a 9 month game.

... or possible make it so the "total game" timer does not start to run until 24 hours past the last move - so the first 24 hours from the last move is a "free" time that would not hurt anyone.

It's an interesting suggestion which may work, but I do see where it could be used in the wrong way.

Rule #2. Maximum time for total games.

Well there are some people who sign in every day, and maybe play for an hour. Well if I wanted to be stinky, I could figure out that they are on from 7pm-8pm every day - and wait until 8:01 to make my move where they would have 23 hours taken off their timer before they were to move again. After doing this for a week, it could look like they move slow even though they play their games every day. (Again, just an extreme example of how that rule could be used wrongly.)

this is a perfect example of one person holding everyone up.I have pm'd RSBaby...but no response..and the last person he's playing,cant do anything about it.The other section is complete and the winner is waiting to play(I have won the section in slow play) but cant move on till these 2 games are complete.
but this was already in the final match before the crash(with p257 up 1 game on me) and we wait patiently to play each other again.

It is not complicated but standard in correspondece chess since a long time (ICCF-Rules).
And it`s more variable too.

If anyone out there keeps a list of these "slow" players, please private message me with those names so I can avoid playing games and in tournaments with those people.
Thanks.

Long John..... I like your idea about total or overall time limits in conjunction with a days per move limit.

For those who worry about losing bkr if they are arbitrarily removed from a game for slow play.... take the advice Ug has given to me, and only play games or tournaments which are not rated.

Good suggestion LongJohn, although I would prefer at 1) : x moves in y days ,for instance 10 moves/ 20 days each.
And what happens with the unfinished games at 2. ? Estimation and start the next round?

Whisperz...
I was not speaking about you at all.

I think that people who purposly play games and tournaments which they know in advance they will take three months or more to finish a game, and only play turns when their time limit is up, are losers.

Thats my opinion.

If the shoe fits....

Best bit is that they are online LOL

Revenge is sweet, the worst player on this site for what we just talked about, has just timed out in 2 tourny games with me for the first time. Must have left it a little to long LMAO Be nice if it happened with the other 10's or so that they have with me LOL

I, too, like Kitti's idea that a tournament creator can declare a section when the result is definitely known. This idea should be posted on the requests board, I will do it next.

As to the determination of a game, I am generally against it. There are situations where it is not easy to make a decision and with the wide differences of abilities on this site, a good player maybe behind (somehow) but may still win with good endgame play. And this would put more pressure on Fencer but that could be solved by the appointment of panel of trusted good players ... of course, we might then have a great debate on who should (or shouldn't) be on it!!!

I would like to see that start happening in tournaments too Kitti :o)

One way to speed up the tournaments would be to end the sections when the winner is decided even if there is some games still going on. Of course the slow games would still continue, only the section winners would be announced when it is mathematically certain.

Option to end slow games doesn't sound very good to me. If moves are made within the timelimit there isn't anything to complain about.

I was pointing out no insults thrown on here for a while Ughaibu LOL

The asking to resign business is fine Harley, but I have come across at least one of these "slow" players that wont even acknowledge a pm from you or a gl or gg etc, let alone resign if requested to :o(

I have to agree with ughaibu. I'd be very careful which tournaments I joined if I thought the creator might award the game to my opponent if I took too long or someone complained. And it would create extra work for Fencer having to check out every game that a creator wanted to finish.

For me the answer it quite simple, if you have a problem with a tournament, contact the creator, tell them which game, and what the problem is.
If the creator sees that the game is hopelessly lost by one player, and it is severely holding up the tournament, send a message politely asking that person to resign. Any reasonable person wouldnt mind at all. I've been asked to resign games, and have done so. And I have also been in a position where I asked someone to resign (so a pawn could advance to the next round).
With manners and a bit of consideration, tournaments do not need to be such a headache.

You would get more complaints if pawns could post, and there are many members who wont post too. For now, I will be removing slow players before the tournys start, its not malicious etc , just trying to make the tournaments happier for all, if the slow players dont like it, its my tournaments :o)

Hey Ughaibu, you noticed the tournaments board is a more polite debate board LOL

Also, learning can be done outside of tournaments

Just like fellowships can be run how the big boss wants, surely a tournament can be run how the creater wants, thus they can do something as long as they have said it in the tournament description BEFORE hand and looks into it properly and doesnt just dive in like bull in china shop.

I personally would only look into it if asked by one of the players like you say Ughaibu, or a majority vote of the other players in the tourny (including the game players).

I think it would be a good idea Fencer, preferably used when a game is obvious who will win.
It gives more control, considering its the tournament creators right to control as they would like it to be. I would suggest though, that if finished like that, the game should not affect bkr's otherwise it could cause problems with players etc and could be used as a cheat etc.

As a "two-phase commit" [database term], of course. Such action would have to be confirmed by me.

Okay, should I add a feature for the tournament director to finish slow games when necessary?

Oye vey. "and being the behind the back ridicule of other players" .. seems to me that says more about you than it does me.

Get a grip folks. If you've nothing to do with your time other than play games, then get a life. You don't like to wait, play more games so you won't notice. Or, as was suggested, try a real-time game site.

Don't whine for the removal of limits that don't suit -you-, just don't join those games/tournaments. Control your own games, don't try to control everyone else's.

Vir has won the Five in a line section of the Brotherly Love (Beginners) - All games tournament. Congratulations again, and good luck to those still in progress! :)

I see it as a joke Bernice LOL

I am against the slow play but will stand up for Ugh because I know he is also a fast player also. The problems arise with those that are like it permanently

"""If there are 90 players, it only takes one "loser" to mess it up for everybody else. """
that is an insult...calling someone a "loser"...even if this is a game site :)

you cant be a "loser" you have came "2nd"

WhisperzQ LOLOL....you are a came "2nd'er" hehehe
please see the joke of this, i dont need another nasty attack :)

Are you calling me a "loser" IMCK?

I will not give a reason for moving at a speed which suits me, I just do ... W:)

thx. so much, my grandkids will get a kick out of that. LOL..i do appreciate it.

Thanks for the advise, I just set one up tonight and I will not have to kick no one out becuase if they dont move in two days they will time out unless is on a weekend

You go IMupChucKing Your # 1

Is that what you call 'fun"?

Not moving until the last possible time, and being the slowest player in every tournament?

The shortest time we can have a game is one day.

Assuming each player moved only at the last minute, include weekends and a two week vacation for each player.

The maximum amount of days for one game could be unlimited. Even a game with a finite amount of moves, like Battle Boats, or Reversi for example. Reversi takes about 30 moves or so. (for estimate purposes) At 1 turn per day per person = 60 days. Plus 28 total days for vacation. Plus another 8 days for weekends, that may even be a low number. Thats 96 days per game. That is 96 days for a game with a maximum of 30 moves per player.

Is this what you consider fun Ug?

what I have shown is for a one day tourney, for one game only, and only in the first round. If you have a tournament with 90 players, like the Backgammon tourney I first mentioned. That is like 13 or so groups in round one... My point is that even the minimum one day time limit could have matches that last years.

So your pint Ug, aout not joining a tournament if we don't like the time limit, makes no sense. 99% of the players here would join zero tournaments if they were told to expect every game to last 3 months, and to be happy if it was less.

Plus, again, No one wants to play a one day tournament either, since the possibility to time out, due to computer error, or some other UNFORESEEN problem which may occure. So you try a four day tournament, and now you have a 9 month per game scenerio!!!!!!

Where do you draw the line?

Excuses are like assholes, everbody has one.
Get past the excusses, and do us all a favor, have some respect for yourself, and put a limit on your games, or stay oput of tournaments or whatever you have to do.If you consider being the last player to finish every game, and holding up the fun and enjoyment for others, and being the behind the back ridicule of other players, fun, then you need to get of this game site, and into some therapy immediatly ;)~

As far as staying out of these games... How does one know?????
If there are 90 players, it only takes one "loser" to mess it up for everybody else.

Sorry to go on so... but there has to be a solution besides, live with it, get over it and shut up.

This is a case where the "rights" of a few ruin it at the expense of the majority.

If we would speak about real-time we would speak about timelimits with 2,5,10 or 30 minutes for the whole game.
And to say " Don`t join the tourney" is not the solution.

Here's the bottom line. If you don't like the time limit in a game or tourney, don't join it. This is not a real time game site. It is turned based for a reason. If you want a real time site, might I suggest Yahoo or MSN. I'm in a 30 per turn tournament that has been running for over a year and it's not done yet. Do you hear my whinning about it??? No because I knew it could take that long when I signed up.

I have three more places to fill in my prize checker tournament. Message me if you fancy playing.

But it is a fact, that we have the problems mostly with people who have hundreds of games at the same time. And it is not the theme to move always one move in one day, but continuously in the regular time frame and not every move at the end of the time limit. But the suggestion to play without weekend days seems to be an improvement.

If I set a tourny at 1 day, not many will join because of if there are problems. So I set a little longer so as to allow for this and get more to join.
A speed limit of 50mph does not mean you have to go at 50 mph, it means anywhere from 0 - 50 mph, I think the problem we are getting at is the players who constantly go at 49.8 mph just because they can. you can watch them on here doing it no matter what anyone says about they are aloud to.
I agree they can if they want, but I dont mind it on the odd ocasions, but not every move. Most of us move sensibly, but these players ruin it for us. I often end up with the first god knows how many "other player move" games all as a few players. When players say its because too many games on their list ( i understand the crash caused probs), I have said before if you cant moved all your "your move" games once in one day ( added 1 hr later so I am not misunderstood a day when they are online, not every day), then you have more than you can handle and should cut down. You have no one to blame except yourself, So dont hold everyone else up.
Lecture over LOL

A suggestion could be to have a different type of games - a "super fast" game where the time limit is the "true" time limit with no weekends or vacations.