(V): I never doubted how bad things are, my opinion is that its all part of a normal economic cycle (well normal for a free market economy, which would be different from normal under a socialist type of system)


He and other economic experts just not think things were as bad as they were

Well experts thought Saddam had not got rid of the WMDs , but then they found out he had... thats the point, get it yet? Experts think things all the time, and they are not always correct.... and most of the time we realize this and we move on.


But how do you know that these Obama economic experts really did know what the economy was like, and that they really had no hope of creating 3 million jobs like they said they would? But they lied to us just to get their big spending spree passed easier.... Thats what was said about Bush, right? That he lied and should be impeached, right?

Its about a point, how the media and the liberals in general think about things differently when it is Obama or Bush, not trying to say anything about the specifics, just pointing out a bias and hypocrisy, as I see it....

Czuch: No. He and other economic experts just not think things were as bad as they were. And come to think of it... neither did you.

Jim Dandy: That post was addressed to Czuch and he likes it when I talk that way.

If it makes you feel any better I now think Bush was an idiot.

(V): Once again you miss my point... its not about what is specifically going on, its about the fact that expert intelligence isnt always as accurate as we would like it to be... that Obama pushed this package through in a big hurry, and was able to pull it off based in part on faulty expert intelligence!


Now, the real point for me, is the hypocrisy by the media and the liberals in general..... if this were Bush, we would be told how he lied to us to get what he wanted and he should be impeached blah blah blah

but now you say, "whats wrong with that?" well whats wrong is that we had this huge stimulus forced down our throats at record speeds, and now that it is a done deal, we are told that the info used to make this legislation was wrong, and since it is a president popular with liberals and the media, well, lets just say again, if it were Bush, you wouldnt be so easy on him, would you????

Artful Dodger: re:If this were any Republican President it would be a different story. But Obama is the darling of the press and inspite of the fact that he's running this country down the toilet, consider that those politicians who fully support Obama have been floating in that same toilet, waiting for someone to flush it.


It's good to know the moderator of this board shows such restraint

Czuch: Was it?? The page I found the interview on was dated December 2008.

Unless, the interview you saw was just a repeat of another one he did last year?? Who knows!!

The guy is saying the economy is in worse state then at first thought, what is wrong with that? We've had the same over here by our Government. I would you'd like to focus on that your current admin is trying to cut the budget deficit. I would have thought you would like that idea!!

(V): Well, the interview I quoted from was from a couple of days ago..... and the point is, that we were rushed into this multi trillion dollar stimulus package on faulty intel, both about the state of the economy, and on how the stimulus would create some 3 million jobs.

The press was all over the Bush administration for crap like this, but why nothing now????

"Bams clan lied, the nasty slobs... now more people lost their jobs!"

Czuch: You forgot to mention...

"There is no short run other than keeping the economy from absolutely tanking. That's the only short run," Biden told me.
Biden said he has canvassed Republican and Democratic members of Congress about a second "big" and "bold" stimulus package . He said the Obama team is focused on creating jobs and spending on energy and information technology infrastructure.

"Every single person I've spoken to agrees with every major economist. There is going to be real significant investment, whether it's $600 billion or more, or $700 billion, the clear notion is, it's a number no one thought about a year ago," he said.

The future vice president said the struggling economy will be the number one priority for the Obama Administration next year. "

******************
I'm surprised as a republican, that it took you so long to pick up on this story as the interview was in December last year.

Czuch:  If this were any Republican President it would be a different story.  But Obama is the darling of the press and inspite of the fact that he's running this country down the toilet, consider that those politicians who fully support Obama have been floating in that same toilet, waiting for someone to flush it. 

Artful Dodger: Right...so it is okay for them to rush a multi trillion dollar stimulus package, and tell us how many jobs they were to save, and blah blah blah..... and now say they really didnt know what they were talking about, and it doesnt even matter to anyone????

Again if this were Bush, do you think it would be a non story????

Czuch:  Biden isn't a good barometer simply because he speaks with his foot firmly planted in his mouth. 

Czuch: Its all hypocritical left wing leaning media bias... the one that no liberal will admit

"No one realized how bad the economy was. The projections, in fact, turned out to be worse. But we took the mainstream model as to what we thought -- and everyone else thought -- the unemployment rate would be."

"Everyone guessed wrong at the time the estimate was made about what the state of the economy was at the moment this was passed."

These are quotes from Biden..... if this were Bush, I am sure we would have heard non stop about their poor intelligence

(V): at least we have freedom of speech and the right to demonstrate

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

1995. Mr. Saro-Wiwa, Shell’s most prominent critic at the time in Nigeria

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/09/business/global/09shell.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=shell&st=cse


Shell ...agreed to pay $15.5 million to settle a case accusing it of taking part in human rights abuses in the Niger Delta in the early 1990s, a striking sum given that the company has denied any wrongdoing.

In a statement, the company said the agreement “will provide funding for the trust and a compassionate payment to the plaintiffs and the estates they represent in recognition of the tragic turn of events in Ogoni land, even though Shell had no part in the violence that took place.”

Ten plaintiffs, including the son of Mr. Saro-Wiwa and his brother, accused Shell of seeking the aid of the former Nigerian regime to silence the critic, as well as paying soldiers who had carried out human rights abuses in the impoverished region where it operated.

The Niger Delta continues to be marred by violence and ethnic strife. Much of Shell’s production in the delta is still the target of militants seeking a larger share of the country’s oil wealth.

The prominent case involving Shell was the latest to challenge the behavior of some of the world’s biggest oil companies in developing countries. Companies are increasingly being called to account for their environmental record as well as any collusion with repressive governments.

“We hope this sends a signal. It’s a relief also that we’ve been able to draw a line over the past. And from a legal perspective, this historic case means that corporations will have to be much more careful.”

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/shell_royal_dutch_plc/index.html?scp=1-spot&sq=shell&st=cse

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/clean-energy-funding-trumps-fossil-fuels/?scp=3&sq=shell&st=cse


I love it when a plan comes together.

Snoopy: And they will get more power unless some things change. And it's gotta be more than a scrap of bread.

Artful Dodger: OK.....was looking for a particular post of Gregs and couldnt find it unfortunately

Bernice: I'm the only one that can remove them (besides the original poster) and I've not removed any.

how many "posts" have been removed from here?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8088381.stm


Labour being so unpopular gave them the seats

if these results are repeated in a General Election were in for some very uneasy times

Universal Eyes:

Czuch:joe shmo or joe the plummer?

Czuch: What? No socialist out there want to argue against this ?

Czuch: According to this man.... wE aRE AlL doOMeD!!!!

But who is this guy anyway??? Just some shmuck who founded this country.... just some joe shmo who doesnt have any clue about our "modern day" "progressive" society.. what an idiot, dolt!

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe,
we shall become as corrupt as Europe .
Thomas Jefferson



The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson



It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes.
A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson



I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson



My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government..
Thomas Jefferson



No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson



The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson



The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson



To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson



Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered..'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6433889.ece


how long can Brown carry on

Czuch: Still being looked into.

(V): Whatever happened to that cop that killed that pedestrian for no reason?

Artful Dodger: Trouble is you need as many voters behind it as possible. EG regulation of health care companies. The lobbying system, etc.

It has to be as it started out... one country.

PAT PAULSON for President 2012

(V): I agree about the party thing. I don't think we'll get any help from the Democrats on that one and certainly the Republicans haven't been much help either. I think the best bet is the independents and there's lots of them (and the numbers are growing - me for example).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8080777.stm

i dont think he last another month esp if local election results tomorrow night go against him

Artful Dodger: Only way is for your fellow citizens to forget party and join together over one particular, or a few universal grudges.... and ya TV and radio to back the USA population. As long as they split ya..

a few whistle blowers helps

(V):  Wish we could get rid of a few (lots I mean) or our knuckleheads. 

Artful Dodger: Several MP's have stood down, or been told that they will not stand at the next election. ... And the Home secretary has resigned.. and good riddance!! She was an idiot.

(V): What's going on?

Heads are rolling.

Has the rest of the world seen the "joke" after typing "Cheney CIA documents" in a search machine?

Right, I'm off the public boards some days.

The Excommunicated Roman Catholic Church.

No pope beni xx something, right?

GTCharlie: <---laughing cheaply

of the shocking story just comming to light
on what most parents think is a safe site for children to browse YOU TUBE

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/24272/youtube-porn-attack-videos-uploaded.phtml

a very high profile baby abuse case in the UK has finally ended with the sentencing of the 3 evil monsters
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8055340.stm


the sentences are not has heavy has what ppl would of liked but considering what has now come to light
we should be somewhat grateful that they were not even lighter
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8062099.stm


and it sends a warning to all the bloggers esp on facebook that all the hate groups set up at the time did more harm than good

(V): Yes, it does get maddening when the people elected to do the peoples work end up doing more for themselves, and even at the expense of the people

Maybe we have to look at it more from the point of view that it is not simply fraud or corruption, but an act of treason, that might get their attention a bit, make them think a bit before falling for the greedy, self indulgent crap, if they have some serious jail time, or worse, hang them in a public square

and I did that t for cheap laughs

(V): You have to admit, I'm closer than most

heavenlyemma: I'm not perfect as you say.. you should know better then all here.

But I'm willing to learn and have adapted some interesting methods of looking at things. Black and white just don't work for me!! Even grey is not enough sometimes.

Czuch: Aye... we have laws and some are outdated or do not cover modern problems..... So, we need Government, but we need one free of corruption. Two Lords over here have been caught talking about taking money to influence legislation as part of a sting op by journalists. This is the kind of thing we do not need.

Bernice: Not everything lol noone's perfect Bernice and if they were it would be boring "Yawn"