wow! a double allows all doubles up to double 6 ? that increases the luck factor a lot! (i think?)

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__GAME|Stra|Luck| Fun |Comp|Speed|

Fevga......|  20 |  11 |  19 |  20  |  16 |

Plakoto....|  16 |  16 |  14 |  17  |  14 |

HyperBG.|  08 |  20 |  16 |  03  |  20 |

CrazyFevg|  18 |  15 |  19 |  20  |  17 |

BGammon|  19 |  14 |  20 |  16  |  19 |

Stra = Strategy = Strategy depth and strategical mind required.
Luck = Luck involvement in the game
Fun = How much fun is to play it.
Comp = Complexity = NOT of the rules, but of the strategy required. The branching factor.
Speed = The speed of the game. How quickly it evolves not with absolute criteriaof speedness, but with some other that i can explain if you want.


All numbers in each category(column) have been derived in comparison with a 20 that has been given(defined) to a specific game) and are my feelings for each game.....

I've put fun=16 for HyperBG, as after a while it gets boring.....(personal opinion again of course)

Hrqls: I think these rules would pretty much remove what little skill I see in the game, other than the cube. I would be interested to hear the rationale behind these proposed changes, and I would hope that if Fencer implements them at all, it would be in the form of another variant, rather than changing the existing game.

Pythagoras: Where woul'd you place plakoto with regards to strategy?(i would love to see fevga here)

furbster:
First Narde(Russian) is similar(only one difference actually) to Fevga while i prefer our(Greek) Fevga because is a bit more simple and a bit more superior to strategy requirements.....

Second Crazy Narde just like Crazy Fevga(or Gioul as it is said here) has only one difference from it's non-crazy partner: The player that has a double of type X(X=1,2,3,4,5) plays all the doubles up to 6. So if one rolls a 44, he plays 44,55,66!

I would love to see Fevga/Narde and Crazy Fevga/Narde here....! And since the difference between them is so small if madPhilip implement the one here it is easy to implement the other too

Also a Crazy Backgammon is not a bad idea..... Actually it is but it will be fun!

I'd love to see crazy narde here. It's quite a luk based game, although a lot of skill is needed too. Would bring difference to the bg varients that are on this site.

For me Hyppergammon is fun but way too simple to enjoy it a lot! I want complications and Hyperthing is not giving them to me....
I vote for Fevga! Many people here in Greece say that Fevga is the King and Backgammon(Portes here) way beyond. I don't agree but i value Fevga as equal to Backgammon speaking about general greatness..... But speaking about strategical play Fevga is of course the King as it's the game that separates big brains from the others....

Hrqls: I'd welcome a reduced-doubles variant but also think that no blocks is a detriment.

In the existing Hypergammon I'd welcome the Jacoby rule: Gammons don't count unless the cube has been turned.

grenv: *nod* my thoughts as well .. (i left the stairs with single games :))

still a double six can easily make a game (or even a 5 point match)

Hrqls: I think the removing of blocks is silly. The whole point is that by creating a block you get a certain type of advantage, but limit your options next turn etc.

I think the addition of the cube negates the point about this game being too much luck. A good 5 point game is pretty skillful.

alanback proposed to use different rules in hyper gammon (fencer proposed to create a new type with those rules ... well fencer didnt say he would .. but if such rules would come into place then it would be easier to create a new game type for it :))

the new rules are

1) double count as normal rolls (only use each die once)

2) no formation of blocks (a player can not place more than 1 piece at a position)

i didnt want to clutter the feature request board with this discussion so i started it here :)

would this game be better ?
i can see the point of treating doubles as normal rolls .. i think that would be a good change ...
but removing the blocks makes the game too much a lucky race i think ?

pentejr: lol .. more the opposite for me ... i wonder why i didnt double sometimes .. and often wonder why i accepted :)

Hrqls: I know we've played, but I don't know if we've played with the cube. So maybe there's still time for mindless doubles. Sometimes I look back at some of the doubles I made, and I wonder why I made them.

pentejr: *nod* i do look at the pip count .. but only when the board setup makes me decide to accept the double with a little doubt

thanks for taking a second thought when playing me .. thats a good compliment .. although i would rather have you offer mindless doubles ;)

Hrqls: That's a definite drop, in my opinion, I halfway agree with playBunny that, in essence, your opponent may have been doing you a favor by offering. Had I been your opponent, though, I probably would have offered, for two reasons:

1.) I'm 20 points behind in pip count, which means you're going to have a decent chance to bear at least one off even if I get you stuck on the bar for a while. So chances for gammon aren't good, I would say.

2.) If I didn't know you, I would double because many players on this site will accept a double based on pip count alone, regardless of position, so that doubling and gammoning may not be mutually exclusive here. Against a bad cube player, there's a chance to win 4 here. Now, since I have played you, Hrqls, I know you are a careful and patient player, which would make me less likely to double in this spot for the same reason. But if I hadn't played you before, this would be my thought process.

playBunny & Pythagoras: thanks! i am trying to create a feeling for when to accept and when not :)

the chance to gammon made me doubt indeed :)

Hrqls: Two loose blots and a resonably open enemy table.. I'd have played on for the SIZZLE. But then I do like gammon.

... GnuBg thinks ...

GnuBg 3-ply says it's right on the border between double and too-good-to-double. 1296-trial rollout says it's a definite double and pass, not good enough for gammon.

I would decline too. Too many hit choices for black and a strong home board....

at this point i was offered a double .. i declined .. any comments ?

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=13290&trnst=0

For anyone who enjoys a face paced tourney.. Please.. I wish to offer it to those who will play continuously.. not just one turn a day ..

°°·.,,.·°¤`'¤¸`°´`°«*Scarlets Springtime Follies*»¸.¤°´`°'¤¸¤´¤°·.,,.·°°

Pedro Martínez: I believe that was the point. The U.S was planning to hold their own cup between their A and B teams and call the winner the world champion. Oh, wait, they already do that in some sports.

Czuch Chuckers: There will be no World Cup in 2096, LOL.

Pythagoras: Well... the 2096 world cup winner will be the US, but I dont think will be visiting the new year, thank you.

but don't tell me i want to enjoy watching it

When you meet our new year, tell it a hello from me..... Oh and while passing from 2010 tell me who will win the football world cup then.....

2095 now....

grenv: Maybe I was just over rated and the cube has exposed my poor play....

Czuch Chuckers: Since the cube came in my hyper rating has skyrocketted, which supports the view that single games are too much about luck. If you want a fairer rating play at least 5 point cube matches.

Czuch: Yep, I won't play singles when they are so unfairly rated. That's one part of the solution. Another part is to make fewer mistakes.

playBunny: Yeah... Imthink part of it is the two game stair matches I play, for one example. I end up losing 14 bkr points in a draw against a low rated player, or even worse if I happen to lose both games!

I have to be like you, and become more discriminating in the kinds of games I accept and play!

Czuch: It's hard to know if the free fall is due to the runs of luck that Pythagoras was referring to or whether it's a change in your playing. Certainly stress will make me play badly (and it even seems to affect my luck somehow). Sometimes these things happen because you get a set of games which are exploring new territory so you go down because you're making mistakes, but you learn from them and are better in the future. Have a look at the graphs of other players and you'll see similar patterns. Alanback, for instance. His skill cannot be doubted but he has the ocassional bad patch followed by a climb back to glory..

Czuch Chuckers: It depends from you your opponents and the dice.....Such distribution is normal.
I've dug out some results from me against Jellyfish (5-point matches). Here are the results (1=win for me , 0=lose for me):
1011000110111011100100111111111010111011101


01011000000011011001001110101101 101001 = 48/80 = 60%
As you may see i have series of 9 matches won and series of 7 mathes lost. That is normal.....

An easy way to stop the free fall is to stop playing for a while so the graph would stop look like a free fall....

2102 now! Stop the free fall!!!!

playBunny: I guess I am wondering what I am doing differently..... How have I gone so awry?

Czuch: "What happened?????"

You played the last month in a dream and didn't notice all those "Your opponent has moved all their pieces out" messages.

Czuch Chuckers: According to your rating graph, your peak rating was 2232.

Czuch Chuckers: This happened:
http://brainking.com/cz/BKRGraph?df=14&mf=1&yf=2006&dt=21&mt=1&yt=2006&submit=Odeslat&u=5745&tp=23

XUG?????

I was at 2250, and in 13th position about a month ago, now I am at 2115!!!!!!

What happened?????

alanback: LOL. That's funny!

playBunny: So every blocked player is a Pandora's box of vituperation waiting to be unleashed . . . reminds me of something one of my partners once said: "One day the sky will be black with chickens coming home to roost!"

alanback:

And there's very possibly a correlation in that idea.

Pythagorus: As BBW said: "They can continue to write and think they are writing to you, but you will no longer have to read it.". I tested this by blocking a friend in a game just now. All the messages - his and mine - disappeared and then reappeared when I unblocked him. Presumably, then, the offending diatribe plus any additionas will be in the game record for such time as the writer is unblocked.

Pythagoras: Are you suggesting that only Type A personalities can be blocked? ;-)

BIG BAD WOLF: I think you need to try again LOL

Matarilevich:

I would a bit correct the aforementioned like this:

A person that is on you list of blocked users as Person-A cannot:
* invite you to a game using the Person-A profile,
* see you on Who is online page using the Person-A profile,
* send you a message using the Person-A profile,
* add you to their Friends list using the Person-A profile.

>but i am not sure of he can not write you a message into the started game. Maybe someone can help you about this doubt.

He can't write you any message on an already started game using the Person-A profile....

BIG BAD WOLF: Thanks BBW :)

This is the backgammon board, lets try to keep our heated discussions on how the dice cheat people. :-)

I have removed all the off-topic posts - please do not be offended if I removed one of yours even if you were trying to help, but they did not make much since once I removed the original posts. I left Matarilevich's post below since it is very good advice for anyone that is having a problem with another user to place them on their Blocked users list.

Plus if you have someone as a blocked users, you will no longer see in-game chat from the person. (They can continue to write and think they are writting to you, but you will no longer have to read it.)

Thanks.

ShunAyumiTaiki: The player from the list of blocked users cannot:
* invite you to a game,
* see you on Who is online page,
* send you a message,
* add you to their Friends list
but i am not sure of he can not write you a message into the started game. Maybe someone can help you about this doubt.

playBunny: But it would happen quite often if 100 people play 500 moves a day (once a week or so).

Czuch: I'm slow today but now I gotcha. Don't mind me, I'm from sleep deprivation, lol.

And it's a 9100 to 1 happening, so pretty wierd indeed. ;-)