Bernice: I thought so too

Artful Dodger: now that IS interesting......thanks :)

I suppose a kid in his early 20s is "entitled" to be a leader. It is no different than kings and queens and the princes that get propped up into power. However, these people are just figure heads. In reality the power resides in a technocratic apparatus, a system of bureaucrats that exercises power on behalf of the figure head.

Well, the technocratic, bureacratic apparatus is the same in every government. Western pseudodemocracies have "cabinets" with their ministers and secretaries. The difference is that in western pseudodemocracies people vote to chose their dictator for a few years, they have the option of calling him names if they don't like him, and finally he leaves only to be replaced by another one. In North Korea the dictator is imposed, nobody can call him names and he leaves only when he is dead.

The military bases are there because of fear that war could break out again. After all, North and South Korea never declared peace. They live under a cease fire, and they are both too radicalized in their ideology to concede peace to each other.

Is North Korea a threat? Historically it is and it is not. North Korea never attacked the USA, or any European nation, or Japan. If anything, it was always the other way around since it was the empires that attacked the weaker nations. The Japanese empire abused Korea for centuries,as did the Chinese empire and the Mongolian empire. However, North Korea did attack the south with the backing of the People's Republic of China and the Soviet Union. Our western empires killed 3 million North Koreans, and at the same time they want North Korea to trust the west. Would the USA or the UK trust a country that killed 3 million of their people?

Western empires want North Korea to abandon its nuclear program, even though those empires make no effort to abandon their own. Western empires deplore WMDs, even though they have arsenals that could kill every living thing in this planet. The West expects North Korea to be sane, without admitting the insanity of their own behaviour.

Bernice: Maybe he's even more of a nut.

Artful Dodger: well the Dead Mans SON has taken over and to me that is to cause much concern...."the apple never falls far from the tree"

Bernice: You're right about North Korea. I'm more that the world is on alert (as we in the US always are or should be) than worry. But you probably mean worry as in "concern" and we should be concerned who takes over etc. We are only ONE nut-job away from some serious conflicts with those nations that have the big bomb (as does N Korea). That should "worry" everyone. ;)

Bernice:
I didn't say there is nothing to worry about.
I am saying there is nothing additional to worry about than previously until the new leader of North Korea indicates there is through word or action.
If anything, the change in leadership should be viewed as an opportunity to renewed diplomacy with North Korea.
Whether I sound like someone else is hardly an issue.

Dark Prince: the americans have approx. 36,000 troops in Korea....if there is nothing to worry about why are they there....but then you are starting to sound like someone else in here....

Bernice:
Media fear mongering.
It's ridiculous. A new leader doesn't imply an imminent attack without cause. Have we, or has any country, given North Korea cause to attack?
If not, they won't.
The media is creating news merely for marketing purposes.

Übergeek 바둑이: what is wrong with a severe fine if you dont vote? We have that iv Australia and it works:(

Don't quote poor to me, those without can work for the community.

The world nervously holds it's breath

The anonymous vote is a disguise pretending that voters want it. In fact, each voter could be issued a code to maintain anonymity while publishing the votes in each district with the code to allow the voters themselves to verify accuracy and complain if not. When a count is questioned, the votes could be decoded for verification purposes.

Bernice:

This does not come as a surprise. Specially in a system in which two political parties have monopolized all political power. All representative pseudo-democracies are susceptible to this. Considering the amount of wealth and power involved, we should not be surprised if those in power want to cheat to win elections.

In many countries today Internet voting is being pushed as a way to "entice" voters to participate in elections and increase voter turnout at election time. Instead, computerized systems are easily rigged to manipulate results.

I would say the the USA is the most vulnerable for several reasons. You have a highly polarized political system with two parties that vie for nearly 50% of the vote each. You have highly technified private companies with the capability to program computerized voting systems. You have very wealthy and powerful men who have every interest in making sure that a candidate that represents their interests wins. You have a lobby system that pervades through every sector of your government. While the population votes, all political power resides in the hands of a plutocratic elite that manipulates and corrupts elected representatives. This is just an example of the undermining of the democratic process. I suppose it is up to Americans to protect their democracy and most Americans are too distracted by terror and paranoia to realize that the biggest threat to American democracy is not terrorists or communists, but rather the plutocratic elite that manipulates all western democracies.

(V): Dawkins couldn't even wear his socks.

Artful Dodger: The news about the Higgs Boson ..... Plus I think Richard Dawkins fills some of the guys boots.

Aye.. he had no room for intellectual dishonesty. The Ol' journalist streak in him.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the death of Christopher Hitchens. So I will. It's a very sad sad day. The world has lost a powerful voice. His intellect resides at the very top with the very brightest. His rhetorical skills were unmatched but by the very few. The world now has a hole in it that won't be easily filled. RIP

Artful Dodger: It's more of a case of what is considered liberal to the US version of the idea. Our PM (conservative) is in full support of the NHS, as are about 99.99 of politicians. Considering some of the reasons for setting up the NHS and other social systems, it would be considered an insult to many who have served or contributed towards the victory of both world wars. As well as several dozen nails in the coffin for any major UK political party to announce it wants to disband it. UK history lessons teach of the poor houses, the deaths before we got social systems and the NHS.

Plus even the likes of the CBI acknowledge the health of the working population is a asset to businesses.

.. the usual argument in the end comes to how to run things.

As to progressive.. the most would in my mind be the SNP, as they won the right for Scotland to rule itself rather than London. But that is the same as being a State in the USA.

But.. I have to say the word progressive has different meanings. Technically there is no UK equivalent to the US. Your whole political system in some forms is alien to the UK.

eg.. unending tv commercials come elections is not allowed. Sure politicians can get on tv shows or be interviewed, but that is upto the TV stations. Lobbying like in the USA is illegal in the UK. Anybody caught red handed (but not slightly pink handed) is gone, possibly even made an example of... ie not allowed to resign and sacked or even actually facing criminal charges.

... I say "even" after the expenses scandal. Too many MP's would have been sacked if they hadn't been allowed to hand back their expenses money. I also wonder why all those big national building companies were not all in court, rather than the few out of 500+ caught fixing bid prices and other fraud, which cost the public and private sector.

(V): And what of US progressives? What is your equavalent?

(V): we have more than two parties too but only two dominant parties. Which of yours dominate? And how do liberals of GB differ from liberals in US?

Übergeek 바둑이: Of course they are a relative term. A BNP party member considers the Conservatives a leftist group. The Communists consider the Labour party a right wing group.

I mean.. how does Sinn Féin position in political terms the Ulster Unionist Party. Former foes in Northern Ireland's long war!

Artful Dodger: ...For a start we do not just have two parties, here is a list of all those with a MP or Lord at the mo....

Labour Party
Conservative Party
Liberal Democrat
Scottish National Party (SNP)
Plaid Cymru - the Party of Wales
Democratic Unionist Party (DUP)
Sinn Féin
Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP)
Ulster Unionist Party (UUP)
Respect
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
Independent Labour
Independent Conservative

More so, even within a party there can be a big difference in views on some items. There is no 'tea party' or be a better 'ideology' except of the 'fars' of movements whether left right or central.

(V): What the difference for example with your conservatives and liberals?

(V):

> Piers Morgan is considered a conservative

What passes for liberal in the USA and Canada is a right wing conservative anywhere else!

The USA has two choices: right wing, and right of right wing. Well, it just shows that the concept of left and right is relative.

Artful Dodger: Piers Morgan is considered a conservative here in the UK. He certainly had no qualms about working for Murdoch as the editor for the NOTW in the past... can't get any righter than working for Murdoch.

If you are talking about his interviewing style with politicians.... He's an English conservative, not an American one. The difference is bigger than the Atlantic ocean!!

(V): that's not a lot of viewers. Certainly not enough to sustain a show. On YouTube yes, cable no. You have to wonder why MSNBC keeps hiring these liberal nut jobs (Joy Bahar, Al Sharpton....) as they can't pull in any decent ratings. But if they put a good conservative at the helm, they'd easily score over a million viewers. American's are tired of the liberal spin here.

Artful Dodger: Damn!! Does that mean he'll be coming back and doing UK TV soon... ... again!

His 'interviews' over here (on ITV) were too choreographed, quite the opposite from his days with NOTW where justified going after celebs lock, stock and two smoking barrels!!

@toddstarnes
toddstarnes
Cable News Ratings - O'Reilly 3,271,000 Piers Morgan 604,000

Übergeek 바둑이: They are relying on their viewers not to know the difference.

eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MjRV-UTs9o

Artful Dodger: Formal logic.... excluding a middle ground... .... yes, I understand the idea, but as having dealt with logic on a formal training ground in the likes of the ultimate logic devices, computers.


.... I find that it's not logical.

A computer uses 01, yet from that it must to operate, be capable of and/or gates as well as yes/no.

Then after reading up I have to ask, are you talking about the Aristotle version or Begriffsschrift?

Way to go Fox News and CNN. It is nice to see those networks lying to their viewers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-qRU2nAUQ

Specially Fox News. They are so incompetent that they can't even figure out the difference between Greek and Russian writing.

DAMMIT!!

(V): I was speaking of formal logic. But then you knew that, right?

Artful Dodger: Yes... As they do on the BBC. Many once hardened lefties or righties, but softer now on a channel they use to fight with.

Interesting fact that!!

Artful Dodger: Seems there are several languages or varieties of that.

(V): All cable news outlets have paid contributors.

Artful Dodger: "

PROPER to pay them as they are regulars"....

Ships biscuits were trice baked. Very hard after that, but add gravy...

(V): philosophical logic??? off in left field?

(V): Should have said two opposite views. And yes, one view presented was completely opposite as she's a well known liberal. Fox has liberals on all the time and it's PROPER to pay them as they are regulars. Some guests don't get money as they are guests being interviewed. But those offering up commentary are called contributors and they are paid. So what.

Logic is abused and often chemical biological truths are mixed in to cause a move from binary to at least a trinary system. That languages keep on changing, and you've always got a chance of a ghost in the machine.

.. Especially back when I was at college when punch cards were used to program the mainframe, as we did back then before PC's!!

Artful Dodger: wow.. they really opposed... ... ... hard!!

I guess if they did their Fox paychecks would stop!! eheheheheh

(V): Eric Bolling=1 person. I've seen that video. Did you notice that he had TWO OPPOSING views presented?

Oh yeah DP, you walked away from our last exchange with your tail between your legs. You should stay away from trying to identify logical fallacies and stop pretending to understand logic. It's clear you don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE


4 in this link to the fox news article.

Artful Dodger:
I don't think so, but feel free to persuade with either a link or an accurate quote.

(V): you were talking about the muppets. Show me more than one. More than two??

last time you tried that you had egg all over your face.

Artful Dodger: That's an excuse you keep using. But when many commentators on Fox say similar things about Liberals, socialism and communism at every opportunity...

It's more then one!!