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5. 12月 2011, 13:36:58
dAGGER 
件名: Re: tournament time control
Nothingness:
if vacations are not allowed, I think it will not encourage me and a lot of players, because you can easily have any incovenience that prevents you from connecting to the site (sickness, holiday, work, connection breakdown,....).
It would be better to have a short time per move. Usually players can be very slow because they have hundreds of games running and they simply play the first one in the time list. They are always near the time limit.
The problem is: what is a short time for you?
For me it is 2 days, with vacation on.
Maybe it is too long for many others.

5. 12月 2011, 13:31:16
cookie monster 
件名: Re: tournament time control
Nothingness:

I think the Fischer Clock controls are reasonable, The default for that control: 7 days with 1 bonus day added for each move seems reasonable. At the limit case, each player gets 1 day per move + weekends. The two slowest players in a tournament would both have to make 100 moves in a game in a year (200 moves + 80 weekend days + 90 vacation days) = roughly one year. Perhaps it would be more weekend days once the vacation kicked in, but close enough. If you play large sections (7 or 8 players) you should finish in two rounds.

4. 12月 2011, 11:05:08
Chaos 
件名: Re: tournament time control
Nothingness: you can make it an invitation only tournament, only it will require more of your time.

4. 12月 2011, 10:27:29
joshi tm 
joshi tm (4. 12月 2011, 10:27:55)に変更されました。
It 's a shame that the 6x6 tiny variant doesn't exist. ;)

I like Fast Espionage the most (yup, with the volcanoes), or Open Small Espionage.

For time control you should have the vacation on, as the new format only allows 45 vacation days (60 if they would pay another membership) . If those are all gone, that's over for them. It's fair to assume that players visit the site daily, so use a fixed time per turn, say 1,5 days per turn. If you hate the vacation system, do fixed weekends only or even no days off.

4. 12月 2011, 04:52:42
Nothingness 
件名: tournament time control
Nothingness (4. 12月 2011, 04:54:53)に変更されました。
I'm thinking about running a prize tourney in the next month or so.. I want to know what the best time control is ( i know best is subjective). I dont want to have it be a tourney that takes years to finish. I also do not want to scare away many individuals that just cant committ to a short time frame? I will also be carefully watching who enters and will be eliminating individuals who move slower than molasses in the winter time. I want this tournament to attract as many individuals as possible. I currently am in a tourney when two individuals have not made there first move yet and they are black rooks ( tons of auto vaca) and the tourney started in october. and they are using 30 day time control.
Also what would attract more players for a variant and format? im looking at Open version and either elimination or 1 game each person 4 player sections.
The volcano versions do not get enough love and the open versions seem to be the most played.
As for the time control im looking at: 1 day plus 12 hour bonus with a 3-5 day max with auto vaca disabled? or a 1 day with 8 hour bonus with a max of 5-7 days. I'm trying to encourage fast play without making it too difficult to manage with daily life. I'm a school teacher so I have a fairly forgiving schedule, others may not. I'm open to suggestions.

28. 11月 2011, 11:17:21
Celticjim 
件名: Re: Requests to Fencer
Chaos: ..now I'm confused........the bug makes it possible to in fact not just move forward--that is the bug....it is relevant if you were down to 5 pieces or less surely? Actually now I think about that I'm not sure the piece number relevance is known.Can you link the game in question for us please ...

28. 11月 2011, 11:09:16
Chaos 
件名: Re: Requests to Fencer
Celticjim: my pieces were still able to move, but only towards the claws of my waiting opponent. So the bug wasn't relevant in this game.

28. 11月 2011, 10:58:12
Celticjim 
件名: Re: Requests to Fencer
Chaos: you said earlier when referring to the rule about not moving back where one came from...."One can corner an opponent by limiting their movement abilities using this rule. As has just been done to me..."...so I thought maybe you would take the opportunity to 'check' whether the bug had been fixed,not ask about it as we all know that is pretty much pointless .....good luck getting a corner variant implement if that is the plan--never was a fan of that one

28. 11月 2011, 10:40:21
Chaos 
件名: Requests to Fencer
Celticjim: no, I haven't asked about the bug. Sorry! Some time ago I was busy trying to see what the consensus for a draw rule was, but didn't succeed. My plan was to combine the request for a draw rule with the request to change the bug. Now we also have the request we want to make for a diagonal version. At the moment I do not have the time to address people personally to get opinions or to formulate different options so players can vote for them. Maybe someone else can step up to take these tasks? You can put my name under the request for any of the diagonal variants, draw rule (50 or more noncapture moves) and the bug.

28. 11月 2011, 04:00:49
cookie monster 
件名: Re: No
Dark Prince:

"I would be interested to know the other players who agree that long games show the greatest skill. I think they show the least skill."

I don't think the length of the game is too important. I like to see a player create an imbalance (e.g. Recon vs 2 or 2 vs Redon, 4 vs 5 or 5 vs 4, etc.) and then demonstrate they know how to play it advantageously.

28. 11月 2011, 01:34:24
Nothingness 
件名: equal rank attacks and the origin of open
As we all know that in the original stratego when a 2 attacked another 2 both pieces were removed. This rule enabled a person to be aggressive and defensive all at once. Once you spotted the 2 and the 1s were exposed or removed it was a feast on the remaining armies and the 2 could attack without prejudice (granted that he didnt run into any bombs). But unitl that happened you played cautiously and very defensively.
Espionage and Sabotage changed this rule and created an aggresive style that if you attacked 1st you get favored with the win. This created a defensive style on my part and I realized that I have to be more cautious and not attack as much due to the numerous threats and open space.
When we ( the IYT committee [I was not on the open committee]) first decided to implement the open version on IYT we had many long discussions about many different things many of which i do not recall ( how many moves and board setup) probably Chaos would remember. I very much agreed on an open verison and wanted a more aggressive type of game. I really enjoy the open game b/c it challenges my defensive style and is much more difficult to set up a solid unbreakable defense. But i have yet to find a glitch or the perfect setup. But i try to find it all the time even if it means losing a game here and there. Every game has its glitch or achilles heel. eventually open will be exposed, but it will take awhile.

28. 11月 2011, 01:20:12
Nothingness 
件名: Re: Volcanoes
joshi tm: The one feature that really prevents a solid unstoppable defense was the implementation of random volcanos. On IYT "ialwayswinsam" and myself had a way of setting up an unstoppable defense. b/c we always knew the volcano set up prior to the match. Now it cant be done, you have to gamble on the setup which isnt tacticly sound and involves luck. We however rarely ever used this tactic unless we needed a must win. I had a record of appx 300 wins and less than 12 loses until i timed out of 33 games at once due to lack of internet access. As for saying something making it true or untrue the same works both ways. (and just b/c majority rules doenst make it a good or prudent choice.) And as for being able to move backwards that would not be good. to much to explain here. The rule i always favored is the original: equal rank attacks remove both pieces. This is why this game has always favored the aggressor. Which i will explain in a new post.

27. 11月 2011, 21:56:28
joshi tm 
件名: Re: Volcanoes
Dark Prince: Always on the middle ranks, but placed after both players set up an army. I think it would be a big improvement to alreadt place volcanoes on the map before setting up an army, as a player can set up accordingly to the different terrain.

27. 11月 2011, 18:14:02
SL-Bosse 
件名: Slowly play
I want to apologize everyone for my slow play for the moment. I am in to too many games, and to much work.

27. 11月 2011, 17:22:11
Celticjim 
件名: Re: No
Chaos: just out of curiosity,did you check whether the bug had been fixed?

27. 11月 2011, 13:54:14
Chaos 
件名: Re: No
Justaminute: I do not agree with you on that. The rule not to be able to move the piece back where you came from is one of the best rules of espionage in my opinion. I'm not a fan of defensive play, but this rule makes defensive play harder as well. One can corner an opponent by limiting their movement abilities using this rule. As has just been done to me...

27. 11月 2011, 13:22:38
Justaminute 
件名: Re: No
Dark Prince:
I’m with you on this. I rarely play espionage anymore because of just this point. Games of 300+ moves may be strategically perfect but so what, for most people this is on par with watching wallpaper dry. I’ve said it before but I think the game would be vastly improved if forward moves were not penalised by not being allowed to reverse the next move. It would make the game a lot faster without reducing the skill level.

27. 11月 2011, 09:03:26
Dark Prince 
件名: Volcanoes
The rules indicate that the volcanoes are randomly placed, but some things are not specified. Are they placed symmetrically and always on the middle 2 ranks? Do you see the volcano placement when you begin setting up pieces or not until the first move?

27. 11月 2011, 07:59:31
joshi tm 
It's a shame we can't check the "knowledge" positions anymore of your game: Klein Spionage (Nothingness - Sandoz) as every piece is uncovered.

Looks like an awesome game. The volcanoes were pretty annoying here.

27. 11月 2011, 06:12:01
Dark Prince 
件名: No
Nothingness:
Saying it, doesn't make it so, even though you've repeated it several times. I doubt many players agree with what you're saying. Your analogies don't support your point either.
In war, blitzkrieg is an effective tactic that can force on enemy onto its heels, but mine fields can funnel an attacking enemy into killing zones. The volcanos perform a similar function to that of mine fields and thus favor a defensive strategy more than the open variations.
The open variations do NOT force aggressive play, but they do require a different set of tactics for effective defensive play.
Aggressive play does not imply reliance on blind luck.
I would be interested to know the other players who agree that long games show the greatest skill. I think they show the least skill.

27. 11月 2011, 05:24:33
Nothingness 
件名: Re: looong game
Nothingness (27. 11月 2011, 05:25:57)に変更されました。
Dark Prince: It's just the opposite.. it shows that you were able to out wit and out think the opposition..you dont see the military just go in guns a blazing. There is strategy involved not just blind luck to see who B#$#$#%^%^ their best. Being able to out think your opponent is the best strategy. Being able to crack a strong defense is more admirable and takes skill. not just shifting peices around until you get lucky. Try letting a wild animal into your house (a Raccoon into your cabinet) and see how tough it is to get it out. But if its just running around your kitchen its much easier to get rid of just open your door. Ironically the open versions force people to play an aggressive style and it avoids defense, but the volcano versions allow for defensive play and more critical thinking and less offense. But in the volcano version offense MUST be timed PERFECTLY.. there can be no error or you will lose. You can get lucky with a runner in the open versions. But once your pinned in its over. Its like comparing Mac to the PC the both have their advantages and disadvantages.