Dear CC,

I tried your link, "game#98589," and got an error msg:

HTTP ERROR: 404 Not Found

RequestURI=/game/archievedgame

Powered by Jetty://

-Fx

game#98589
Here is the game everyone!

I don't think I would trade my A for 2N + 1.5P.

Then again, all the pawns might have been easier to coordinate with 3 pieces instead of one A.

I think the Germans pronounce it "TZOOG-tsvahngk." It's a deeply intellectual phenomenon which people are much better at understanding than computers are. It most certainly deserves a different kind of name like this! The machine will be utterly incapable of "contemplating" such an oddity, while the human spirit can pause and look deeply into it, imagining the ancillary implications...

What is a link to this game? Or the game #?

well let's see. Subtract 7 pawns from each side.

2N + 1R vs. A + 2P

Let's convert A to B + N + 1P for the sake of simplicity.

2N + 1R vs. 1B + 1N + 3P

Subtract 1 Knight from each side

1N + 1R vs. 1B + 3P

Let a Bishop be a Knight plus half a pawn

1N + 1R vs. 1N + 3.5P

Subtract a Knight from both sides

1R vs. 3.5P

I'd say your side was doing better.

I remember that game! I thought it was going to be a draw, but then you set a trap that I didn't go for. You had a back rank mate if I attacked your knight after a check! Very clever, but seen! My passed pawn was too far advanced for you stop, so I guess you gambled on me going for the trap! Good game.

Skill and determination :)
[It was K+2N+1R+7pawns v K+1A+9pawns which is probably about even in points anyway]

Yeah how did you lose that one game to ChessCarpenter? All he had was an Archhbishop and you had like 2 Rooks and a Knight or something like that :)

I don't need a mutual zugswang to go from a win to a loss ... I can do it all on my lonesome LOL W:)

ahhh...now I know how to describe myself!! LOL:)

We have the Germans to thank.

now theres an unusual name.I'm curious as to its origion.

Have you ever had a mutual zugzwang in your games?

The second max_w number applies to positions with black to move and win rather than white to move and win.

The "w" does not stand for white. It means Max Win Length.

Zugzwang is when it sucks to be your move. You lose as a result of it, and could draw if your opponent was to move.

Mutual Zug is very bizzarre. In super-tough endings, your side to move wins by the narrowest of margins. If your opponent could move, he can win. In fact, if you misplay, you go from a win to a loss!

Tomorrow I have to go and play this through.
Thank you for looking.

Okay muggins is now better educated, thanks, but let me clarify that the second Max_W is the number of moves for white after black has moved first and I guess, Mzugs (mutual zugzwangs - sorry, never heard the term before) are postions from which both agree that to pursue the matter is a venture into hopelessness (for one side anyway).

Thanks GI

Lets take the queen vs. archbishop ending:

kqka 31 66.7 32.4 9.2 24 30.5 59.3 16.5 29

white has the queen
black has the archbishop

Max_W = maximum number of moves to win.
This is 31 moves for white.

% win = what percent of all of the white to move positions win? In this case, 66.7%

% draw = 32.4%

Ave_W = the average length of the wins for white to move. With 9.2, most are easy wins. With white having more power and the turn to move, this can be a little misleading.

The other states are for black to move. The longest win is 24 moves for the Archbishop side. This does not mean the Arch is stronger since it wins more quickly. It just means if you don't win within 24 moves, you aren't going to win.

Only 30.5% of the positions win with the Arch to move, and 59.3% are draws. The average win legnth is 16.5 moves when the Arch can move and win.

The last stat, Mzugs, is the count of mutual zugzwang positions.

I am a mug so you will need to elaborate a little on the Max_W etc codes, what they mean I mean :)

Peace and good health to all.

The Gothic Chess Ladder has begun accepting challenges.

Come and see!

Also, the group decided to make it a one-game challenge.

6 battles are ongoing:

A) bwildman (position 12) challenges clean4today (position 9)!
B) ChessCarpenter (3) challenges Oliottavio (2)!
C) MidnightMedic (17) challenges Lythande (15)!
D) MatthewHall (16) challenges Spocko (14)!
E) Nasmichael (10) challenges Fencer (7)!
F) Greenknight (8) challenges Tangram (6)! --this one is particularly important,
as the winner of this clash may face one of the top 5!

More Jousting for 1800 and under...starts March 8th!! Look for it in the "Tournaments" Section.

OOps. Let me try again. The Gothic Chess Ladder

LOL..that link led me to the founders fellowship....guess I'm banned!LOL
never know till you look!

Please look at The Gothic Chess Ladder to see the list.
Commentary is welcomed.

Following are some of the sites (other than those who name it in the title of the fellowship) that play Gothic Chess. If you are in regularly in contact with any of these “Big Bosses” please let them know we are working on a Gothic Chess Ladder (see the fellowship) and we would welcome their players to come and try their hands and minds there.

I collated some players names, ratings, records, and will put them at that fellowship.

If you are interested in helping manage that site, send a note my way. Thanks to Greenknight and Taikoki for their quick responses as to the possibility of a ladder.

Lion Heart Chess—Nomad, BigBoss
USA—PUPPETMASTER, BigBoss
Wombats United—Cariad, BigBoss
!The Zoo!—Nightstorm, BigBoss
*practice room*--Jason, BigBoss
Ironhorse Saloon—bwildman, BigBoss
THE CAVE—bwildman, BigBoss
Noodleland—Judd, BigBoss
The Mercenaries—Goonerg, BigBoss
HOME—harley, BigBoss
Show must go on—ability, BigBoss
Peppermint Patty’s Challengers—Radiant 36 9, BigBoss
New Beginning—Erika, BigBoss
MadMonkey’s Swing Madhouse—MadMonkey, BigBoss

We need 16 players for the tourney. It will not begin until March, so as not to pull away from one whose registration closes this week.

Gothic Invitational--Fihankra CC

Wow. That's great service. I really appreciate your diligence, Ed. Now I just need the time to read your answer... Let's see: 1. b8=A! Kd8 2. Kd5 Be3 3. Ke6 Bf2 4. Af4 Kc8 5. Ad6+... I'll be back in a week or two... Tell the front desk to take my messages... I'm "busy."

Position:

- - - - - - - - - -
n P - - k - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - -
- - b - K - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - -

White to move and mate in 181


b8=A mates after 180 more moves
b8=Q draws
b8=C loses in 34
b8=R loses in 34
b8=B draws
b8=N loses in 34

Kf5 loses in 36
Kd5 loses in 36
Ke4 loses in 36
Kf4 loses in 36

1. b8=A! Kd8 2. Kd5 Be3 3. Ke6 Bf2 4. Af4 Kc8 5. Ad6+ Kd8 6. Ae4 Bg1 7. Af3 Bf2
8. Ag4 Bg1 9. Ah3 Bh2 10. Af1 Bg1 11. Kd6 Nc8+ 12. Kd5 Nb6+ 13. Kc6 Nc8 14.
Ah3 Ne7+ 15. Kd6! Bh2+ 16. Ke6! Nc6 17. Af1! Bg1 18. Kd6 Ne7 19. Ae2 Bh2+ 20.
Ke6! Bi1 21. Af3 Ng6 22. Ac6+! Kc8 23. Kf6! Nf4 24. Kf5! Kc7 25. Ah1 Kb6 26.
Aj3! Ng2 27. Ke4! Bb8 28. Ae8 Kb7 29. Kd5 Nf4+ 30. Kc4! Ne6 31. Af7 Nc7 32.
Ad6+ Kb6 33. Ae4 Na6 34. Aa8+ Ka5 35. Ad5 Bi1 36. Ag2 Bb8 37. Ae3 Nc7 38. Ad4
Na6 39. Kb3 Bd6 40. Ae3 Nc5+ 41. Kc4! Bf8 42. Ad5 Ka6 43. Ac7+ Kb7 44. Aa5+
Ka6 45. Ad8 Bd6 46. Kd5 Nb7 47. Ae6 Kb6 48. Ad7+ Kc7 49. Ab5+ Kb6 50. Aa4+ Kc7
51. Kc4 Bg3 52. Ab5+ Kd8 53. Ac6+ Kc7 54. Ad5+ Kb8 55. Ah1 Bh2 56. Ac6+ Kc7
57. Ab5+ Kb6 58. Ad4+ Kc7 59. Ae6+ Kb6 60. Ad5+ Ka6 61. Af3 Bg3 62. Ae2! Bi1
63. Af1! Kb6 64. Ae3+! Ka6 65. Ag2 Bg3 66. Af1 Bd6 67. Kd5+ Kb6 68. Ke6 Bc5
69. Ac4+! Kc7 70. Ab5+ Kb6 71. Aa4+ Kc7 72. Ae8+ Kc8 73. Kd5 Bg1 74. Ab5 Nd8
75. Ad6+ Kd7 76. Ae5+ Ke7 77. Ag4 Nf7 78. Ah3 Bi3 79. Af5+! Kd8 80. Ag6 Ng5
81. Ke5 Kd7 82. Ah5 Bj2 83. Af6+ Kc7 84. Ad5+ Kd7 85. Kf5 Ni6 86. Af4 Ng5 87.
Ae5+ Kc8 88. Af6 Kb7 89. Ad5+ Ka6 90. Ah1 Nh3 91. Kg4 Ni5+ 92. Kf4 Bi1+ 93.
Kf5 Kb5 94. Ae4 Bh2 95. Af2 Bj4 96. Ke6 Kc4 97. Ag3 Ng6 98. Ae2+ Kb3 99. Ah5
Nf8+ 100. Kd5 Bg1 101. Af4 Bj4 102. Kc5 Bg7 103. Ad5+ Kc2 104. Ae4+ Kb3 105.
Af5 Bi5 106. Ad4+ Ka3 107. Kb5 Bj4 108. Kc4 Bi5 109. Kc3 Be1+ 110. Kc2 Kb4
111. Ac6+ Kc5 112. Ae7+ Kd4 113. Axf8 Bg3 114. Ab4 Ke5 115. Ad3+ Ke6 116. Kd2
Be5 117. Ke3 Ba1 118. Ke4 Kf6 119. Ac4 Kg6 120. Ag8 Kg7 121. Ab3 Bf6 122. Kf5
Bc3 123. Ae6+ Kh6 124. Af4+ Kg7 125. Ah5+ Kf8 126. Ad1 Bd4 127. Ab3 Bg1 128.
Ad5 Kg7 129. Af3 Bb6 130. Ah5+ Kh6 131. Aj4+ Kh7 132. Kg5 Be3+ 133. Kh5 Kh8
134. Ai6+ Ki7 135. Aj5+ Kj6 136. Ag8 Bc1 137. Ki4 Bd2 138. Ac4 Bb4 139. Kh5
Ki7 140. Ab3 Kj6 141. Ac1 Be1 142. Ah6 Bc3 143. Ai4+ Ki7 144. Ag5+ Kh8 145.
Kg6 Ba1 146. Ad2 Bg7 147. Kf7 Bd4 148. Ag5 Ba7 149. Kg6 Bd4 150. Af4 Ba7 151.
Kh6 Bg1 152. Ad5 Bj4+ 153. Kg6 Bg1 154. Af6+ Ki7 155. Kg7 Bj4+ 156. Kg8 Ki6
157. Ag4+ Kj6 158. Kh7 Bf8 159. Af2+ Bi5 160. Ah3 Be1 161. Ag2 Bf2 162. Ai4+
Ki5 163. Ah3+ Kh5 164. Axf2 Kg5 165. Ad3 Kf6 166. Kh6 Ke7 167. Kg6 Ke6 168.
Kg5 Kd5 169. Kf5 Kd4 170. Ae4 Ke3 171. Ke5 Ke2 172. Kf4 Kf1 173. Kf3 Ke1 174.
Ac3+ Kf1 175. Ad2+ Kg1 176. Kg3 Kh1 177. Kh3 Kg1 178. Ae3+ Kh1 179. Af2+ Ki1
180. Ki3 Kj1 181. Ah3#

Number of times there is only 1 move to win: 17

Ed, what is the move list for how the Archbishop can win against the Knight and Bishop? It looks like a typical draw to me, due to insufficient material advantage. The Archbishop is unable to attack the Knight with a knight move, and unable to attack the Bishop with a bishop move, while each of these pieces often protect each other while preventing the Archbishop from gaining access to otherwise vulnerable squares. The two pieces have more chances to check the enemy king because of their separate locations, but the Archbishop is more maneuverable due to its unity of location. Looks like a toss up to me!

I was data mining today and found a position where the only win is a promotion of a pawn to an Archbishop where no checks are given as a result! Promoting to a Queen would draw, a Bishop would draw, and a Chancellor/Rook/Knight promotion would all lose!

The position:

white pawn on b7
black knight on a7
black bishop on c5
black king on e7
white king on e5

1. b8=A! is the only win, and it requires a total of 181 moves.

My vote:
White: King a1, Bishops a8,j8
Black: King c2, Pawn j7
White to Move.

LOL...loop gothic chess?? theres an idea!

I assume the bishops do not have to be on opposite colours?

everyone is welcome :)

from 8 move finish...to 202 move finish,with wins,losses,and draws.. all posibilities.That I can understand.
Wouldnt it be safe to say,that with a human factor,most all matches could have a different outcome?Also..how many variables would there be if it were 2 humans playing,or does this take every mistake into consideration?

All right! I finally won something! :-)

I have the winner from the Knight + Bishop vs. King contest. The checkmate solutions are shown in bold...

ChessCarpenter
B+N vs. K contest
26. March 2003, 13:51:32

Ed,

Here is my setup for the contest:

Black King = a8
White King = c6
White Bishop = c5
White Knight = b5

I only have a mate in 25 moves for White! I can not seem to get more!

[Mate in 23]
---------

juangrande
B+N vs. K contest
26. March 2003, 14:09:14

I'll make an educated guess for the setup, since I don't have the resources to conduct a detailed search. :-)

White: Ka8, Be8, Nj2
Black: Kc8

Of course, the mirror image positions should be considered equivalent:

White: Ka1, Be1, Nj7
Black: Kc1

White: Kj1, Bf1, Na7
Black: Kh1

White: Kj8, Bf8, Na2
Black: Kh8

[Mate in 37]

---------

WhisperzQ
Re: B+N vs. K contest
31. March 2003, 22:24:42

Okay, I had my guess early, but to put some positions on it:

White: Ka1, Ba2, Nb1
Black: Kj8
Black King has many posible locations but generally in that diagonally opposite corner.

[Mate in 33]

---------

ChessCarpenter
Re: B+N vs. K contest
1. April 2003, 00:18:25

Well, here is my shot!

White Kc8,Ba1,Ni1
Black Ka8
Like Whisperz I needed to put something in!!

[Mate in 24]

==========

So Rob snuck in a second entry...but both of his were in the low 20's, so the winner is, JuanGrande!

Congratulations Juan, you finally won your Gothic Chess mug!

There is an easy solution to this. Ask Fencer to set up a position, suspend the 50 move rule, and play against this database. I will move for it. You can move for yourself. We play until checkmate.

I setup a similar position in chess:
White: King a8, Queen h2, Pawn d2
Black: King f1, Queen g7

White wins in 76 moves by playing Qf4 or Qh3! All other moves lead to the draw or loose. I get this result from Nalimov Tablebase Server
on http://www.lokasoft.nl/uk/tbweb.htm

The larger board in Gothic Chess allows the black to survive more then 3 times longer (assuming Ed's software to compute Gothic Chess tablebases doesn't have bugs).

Who can verify so many moves? :)

Mate in 268

Registered owners of Gothic Vortex will get the 4 pieces databases once they are hooked up. The 5-piece databases are 900 MB total so they cannot be included without multiple CDs are some form of compression.

1. Qe2 Qg8+ 2. Ka7 Qg7+ 3. Ka6 Qa1+ 4. Kb7 Qb2+ 5. Kc6 Qf6+ 6. Kc5 Qf5+ 7. Kd6 Qf8+ 8. Kd7 Qf7+ 9. Qe7 Qd5+ 10. Qd6 Qb7+ 11. Ke6 Qe4+ 12. Kf6 Qf3+ 13. Ke5 Qe2+ 14. Kf5 Qf3+ 15. Qf4 Qd5+ 16. Kf6 Qc6+ 17. Ke5 Qb5+ 18. Ke4 Qb1+ 19. Ke3 Qe1+ 20. Kd3 Qc1 21. Ke2 Qc2 22. Ke3 Qc1 23. Kf2 Qc2 24. Kg3 Qg6+ 25. Kf3 Qd3+ 26. Qe3 Qf5+ 27. Kg3 Qi5+ 28. Kg4 Qi6+ 29. Kf4 Qf6+ 30. Kg3 Qj6+ 31. Kf3 Qi6+ 32. Kf2 Qi5+ 33. Ke2 Qb5+ 34. Ke1 Qb1+ 35. Kf2 Qa2 36. Kg3 Qg8+ 37. Kf4 Qj8+ 38. Kf5 Qf8+ 39. Ke6 Qc8+ 40. Kd6 Qd8+ 41. Kc6 Qa8+ 42. Kb5 Qb7+ 43. Ka5 Qa8+ 44. Kb4 Qb7+ 45. Ka3 Qa6+ 46. Kb2 Qb5+ 47. Qb3 Qe5+ 48. Qc3 Qb5+ 49. Ka3 Qa6+ 50. Kb4 Qb6+ 51. Kc4 Qc6+ 52. Kd4 Qd6+ 53. Ke4 Qg6+ 54. Kd5 Qg8+ 55. Kc5 Qc8+ 56. Kd4 Qg8 57. Qc6+ Ki2 58. Qd7+ Ki3 59. Kc3 Qa2 60. Qd6 Qa1+ 61. Kc4 Qc1+ 62. Kb5 Qb1+ 63. Qb4 Qd3+ 64. Kc6 Ki2 65. Qi4+ Kh2 66. Qh5+ Kg1 67. Qd5 Qa6+ 68. Kd7 Qa7+ 69. Ke6 Qb6+ 70. Kf5 Qf2+ 71. Ke5 Qe2+ 72. Kf6 Qf2+ 73. Ke7 Qa7+ 74. Qd7 Qc5+ 75. Qd6 Qg5+ 76. Ke6 Qg6+ 77. Kd7 Qg4+ 78. Kc6 Qa4+ 79. Kb7 Qe4+ 80. Kb6 Qb1+ 81. Ka6 Qa2+ 82. Kb7 Qf7+ 83. Kc6 Qf3+ 84. Qd5 Qf6+ 85. Kc5 Qa6 86. Kb4 Kf2 87. Qb5 Qe6 88. Kc3 Kf3 89. Qd3+ Kg2 90. Qc4 Qe1 91. Qg4+ Kh2 92. Qf4+ Kg2 93. Kb2 Qe2 94. Qi4+ Kh2 95. Qh4+ Ki2 96. Kc2 Kj3 97. Kc3 Qf3+ 98. d3 Qe3 99. Qd4 Qh6 100. Qd5 Qe3 101. Kc4 Qa7 102. Qc5 Qa2+ 103. Kc3 Qa1+ 104. Kd2 Qa2+ 105. Ke3 Qe6+ 106. Kd4 Qg4+ 107. Kc3 Qg3 108. Qf5 Qc7+ 109. Kd2 Qd6 110. Ke3 Qh6+ 111. Ke4 Qc6+ 112. Qd5 Qg6+ 113. Kf3 Qf6+ 114. Ke2 Qj2+ 115. Ke3 Qe7+ 116. Kd4 Qh4+ 117. Kc5 Qe7+ 118. Kb6 Qf6+ 119. Kb5 Qb2+ 120. Kc6 Qc3+ 121. Kd7 Qg7+ 122. Ke8 Qh8+ 123. Ke7 Qh4+ 124. Kd7 Qh3+ 125. Kc7 Qg3+ 126. Kc6 Qg6+ 127. Kc5 Qa6 128. Qf3+ Ki4 129. Qg4+ Ki5 130. Qd7 Qa5+ 131. Qb5 Qc7+ 132. Kd5 Qd8+ 133. Ke6+ Ki4 134. Qd5 Qg8+ 135. Ke5 Qg5+ 136. Kd4 Qg7+ 137. Kc4 Qc7+ 138. Qc5 Qf7+ 139. Kc3 Qf3 140. Qd6 Kh3 141. Qe6+ Kg3 142. Kc4 Qf1 143. Qg8+ Kh4 144. Qd5 Kg4 145. Kb5 Kg3 146. Qg5+ Kh2 147. Qe3 Kg2 148. Kb4 Qb1+ 149. Kc5 Qc2+ 150. Kd6 Qc8 151. d4 Qd8+ 152. Kc5 Qc7+ 153. Kb4 Qb6+ 154. Kc3 Qa5+ 155. Kc4 Qa6+ 156. Kc5 Qa5+ 157. Kc6 Qa8+ 158. Kd7 Qd5+ 159. Ke7 Qb7+ 160. Kf8 Qb8+ 161. Kg7 Qc7+ 162. Kg6 Qc6+ 163. Kg5 Qa8 164. Qe2+ Kg1 165. Qe5 Qj8+ 166. Kg6 Qj6+ 167. Kf7 Qj3+ 168. Ke7 Qi3+ 169. Kd7 Qh3+ 170. Kc7 Qc3+ 171. Qc5 Qg3+ 172. Qd6 Qc3+ 173. Kd7 Qh3+ 174. Kc6 Kh1 175. d5 Qh8 176. Kb5 Qh7 177. Kb6 Qh8 178. Qe7 Qb2+ 179. Kc6 Qc2+ 180. Qc5 Qe4 181. Kb6 Qb1+ 182. Qb5 Qg6+ 183. Kc5 Qf5 184. Qe2 Ki1 185. Qe1+ Kh2 186. Qh4+ Ki1 187. Kd4 Qf1 188. Qg3+ Kj2 189. Qj6+ Ki1 190. Qi6+ Kj2 191. d6 Qa1+ 192. Kd5 Qa8+ 193. Ke5 Qb8 194. Qj5+ Ki2 195. Qg2+ Ki1 196. Qc6 Qh8+ 197. Ke6 Qh3+ 198. Ke7 Qh4+ 199. Kd7 Qh7+ 200. Kc8 Qg8+ 201. Kc7 Qg3 202. Qc4 Ki2 203. Qb4 Qe5 204. Kc6 Qe6 205. Qb2+ Ki1 206. Qc1+ Ki2 207. Qi7+ Kj3 208. Qj7+ Ki4 209. Kc7 Qc4+ 210. Kd8 Qg8+ 211. Kd7 Qg3 212. Qe7 Kj4 213. Qj2+ Ki5 214. Qd2 Ki6 215. Kc6 Qf3+ 216. Kc7 Qf5 217. Qe2+ Kj6 218. Qc4 Qa5+ 219. Kb7 Qf5 220. Qc6 Qb1+ 221. Kc7 Qi1 222. Qd5 Ki6 223. Qf5 Kj6 224. Kd7 Qg3 225. Ke6 Qb3+ 226. Kf6 Qi3+ 227. Kf7 Qi7+ 228. Kf8 Qh8+ 229. Ke7 Qi7+ 230. Qf7 Qc1 231. Qf6+ Ki7 232. d7 Qc5+ 233. Ke8 Qb5 234. Qc3 Ki8 235. Ke7 Qg5+ 236. Kd6 Qh6+ 237. Kc7 Qf4+ 238. Kb7 Qe4+ 239. Kb6 Qb1+ 240. Kc7 Qi1+ 241. Kc8 Qi2 242. Qd3+ Kj8 243. Qg6 Qh3 244. Qg8+ Ki7 245. Qg7+ Kj6 246. Qf6+ Ki5 247. Kc7 Qh7 248. Qd4 Ki6 249. Kb7 Kj7 250. Ka8 Qh1+ 251. Ka7 Qh7 252. Qd1+ Ki7 253. Qc1+ Kj6 254. Qc7 Qh8 255. d8=Q Qa1+ 256. Kb8 Qb1+ 257. Qb6+ Qxb6+ 258. Qxb6+ Ki5 259. Qb4 Ki6 260. Qi4+ Kh6 261. Kc7 Kg5 262. Kc6 Kf6 263. Qh5 Kg7 264. Kd5 Kf6 265. Kd6 Kg7 266. Ke6 Kg8 267. Kf6 Kf8 268. Qh8# 1-0

Not sure if it is correct, the material seems to be nearly equal. Is this an analysis by Gothic Vortex?

1. Ka1b2 Nb3c5
2. Aj7i8 Kf1f2
3. Kb2c3 Kf2f3
4. Kc3d4 Nc5b3+
5. Kd4d5 Nb3d2
6. Ai8j7+ Kf3g2
7. Aj7h5 Be7b4
8. Ah5i4+ Kg2f2
9. Ai4h3+ Kf2g3
10. Ah3i5+ Kg3g2
11. Ai5e1+ Kg2h3
12. Kd5e6 Kh3g4
13. Ae1d3 Bb4a5
14. Ad3e2+ Kg4g5
15. Ke6e5 Ba5c7+
16. Ke5d5 Bc7b6
17. Ae2i6+ Kg5f5
18. Ai6g7+ Kf5g5
19. Kd5e6 Kg5h4
20. Ag7f5+ Kh4g5
21. Af5h3+ Kg5h4
22. Ah3f4 Nd2f3
23. Af4d5 Nf3d4+
24. Ke6e5 Bb6a7
25. Ad5e4 Kh4h3
26. Ae4f2+ Kh3g2
27. Af2e3+ Kg2f3
28. Ae3d1+ Kf3g2
29. Ke5e4 Nd4e6
30. Ad1f3+ Kg2h3
31. Ke4e5 Ne6d4
32. Af3i6 Nd4c6+
33. Ke5e4 Ba7b8
34. Ai6j4+ Kh3i4
35. Aj4h6+ Ki4j3
36. Ah6f5 Nc6e5
37. Af5g3 Kj3i3
38. Ke4d5 Ki3j2
39. Ag3h2 Kj2i2
40. Ah2f4 Ki2h1
41. Kd5e4 Kh1i2
42. Af4e2 Ne5f7
43. Ae2g4+ Ki2h1
44. Ag4e6 Nf7e5
45. Ae6h3 Kh1h2
46. Ah3f1+ Kh2i3
47. Af1a6 Ne5d7
48. Ke4f5 Bb8i1
49. Aa6f1 Nd7e5
50. Kf5g5 Ne5f3+
51. Kg5h5 Nf3h2
52. Af1g3 Nh2j3
53. Ag3e4 Nj3h2
54. Ae4f5 Nh2j3
55. Af5j1+ Ki3j4
56. Aj1g4 Bi1b8
57. Ag4d7 Bb8i1
58. Ad7f6 Nj3h2
59. Af6g5 Nh2j3
60. Kh5i6 Bi1g3
61. Ag5f6 Nj3h4+
62. Ki6h5 Bg3e1
63. Af6g4 Kj4j3
64. Ag4h3 Kj3i3
65. Ah3g1+ Ki3j3
66. Kh5g5 Be1g3
67. Kg5g4 Nh4i2
68. Ag1f3 Kj3i3
69. Af3g2+ Ki3h2
70. Ag2f1+ Kh2i3
71. Af1j5+ Ki3h2
72. Kg4h5 Bg3d6
73. Aj5i4+ Kh2g1
74. Ai4h3+ Kg1h2
75. Ah3g4+ Kh2i1
76. Ag4c8 Bd6c7
77. Ac8h3+ Ki1h2
78. Ah3i4+ Kh2i3
79. Ai4g2+ Ki3j4
80. Ag2h3+ Kj4i3
81. Ah3g4+ Ki3j3
82. Ag4e6 Bc7d6
83. Ae6f7 Bd6b8
84. Af7e8 Kj3i3
85. Ae8f6+ Ki3j3
86. Af6d7 Bb8f4
87. Ad7e8 Bf4g3
88. Kh5g4+ Kj3i3
89. Kg4f3 Bg3h4
90. Ae8h5+ Ki3h2
91. Ah5i4+ Kh2i3
92. Ai4g2+ Ki3h2
93. Ag2f1+ Kh2h1
94. Kf3g4 Bh4d8
95. Af1i4 Ni2g1
96. Ai4g3+ Kh1g2
97. Ag3f4+ Kg2f2
98. Af4d5 Ng1e2
99. Ad5c6 Bd8b6
100. Ac6e4+ Kf2g1
101. Ae4d3 Ne2d4
102. Kg4f4 Kg1g2
103. Ad3c4 Bb6a7
104. Ac4e3+ Kg2h3
105. Ae3g4+ Kh3g2
106. Kf4e4 Nd4b3
107. Ag4e5 Nb3d4
108. Ae5f4+ Kg2h1
109. Af4e3 Kh1i2
110. Ae3g4+ Ki2j3
111. Ag4c8 Nd4c6
112. Ke4d5 Nc6b4+
113. Kd5e6 Ba7c5
114. Ke6f5 Nb4c2
115. Ac8b7 Bc5b6
116. Kf5g4 Kj3i3
117. Ab7g2+ Ki3h2
118. Ag2f4+ Kh2i3
119. Kg4g3 Nc2e3
120. Af4g5+ Ki3i2
121. Ag5h4+ Ki2i1
122. Ah4j3+ Ki1j2
123. Aj3h1+ Kj2i1
124. Ah1c6 Bb6c7+
125. Kg3f3 Bc7b6
126. Ac6d7 Ne3c4
127. Kf3g3 Bb6c7+
128. Kg3g2 Nc4e3+
129. Kg2g1 Ki1j2
130. Ad7e6 Bc7b6
131. Kg1h2 Ne3f1+
132. Kh2h3 Nf1e3
133. Ae6f7 Bb6a7
134. Af7i4+ Kj2i1
135. Ai4g3+ Ki1j2
136. Kh3i4 Ne3g4
137. Ag3h1+ Kj2i1
138. Ah1c6 Ba7f2
139. Ac6g2+ Ki1h2
140. Ag2f3+ Kh2g3
141. Af3e2+ Kg3h2
142. Ae2xg4+ Kh2g2
143. Ag4e2 Bf2a7
144. Ki4h4 Kg2f2
145. Ae2d1+ Kf2e1
146. Ad1f3+ Ke1f1
147. Kh4h3 Ba7b6
148. Af3e5 Kf1f2
149. Kh3g4 Bb6a7
150. Ae5f4 Kf2e1
151. Kg4f3 Ke1d1
152. Af4d3 Kd1d2
153. Ad3c4+ Kd2c2
154. Kf3e2 Ba7g1
155. Ac4e6 Bg1a7
156. Ae6d7 Kc2b3
157. Ke2d3 Ba7g1
158. Ad7f8 Bg1f2
159. Af8e7 Bf2i5
160. Ae7c5+ Kb3b2
161. Ac5d4+ Kb2a3
162. Kd3c4 Bi5h4
163. Ad4c3 Bh4g5
164. Ac3b5+ Ka3b2
165. Ab5d4+ Kb2c1
166. Ad4c3 Bg5h6
167. Kc4d3 Bh6i5
168. Kd3e2 Bi5j4
169. Ac3d4 Bj4i3
170. Ke2d3 Bi3g5
171. Ad4e5 Bg5j2
172. Kd3c3 Bj2d8
173. Ae5g4 Bd8a5+
174. Kc3d3 Ba5d8
175. Ag4e3+ Kc1b2
176. Kd3d2 Bd8a5+
177. Kd2d1 Kb2b3
178. Ae3d5+ Kb3a3
179. Kd1c2 Ba5e1
180. Ad5e7+ Be1b4
181. Ae7c6 Bb4f8
182. Ac6d7 Bf8e7
183. Ad7b5+ Ka3b4
184. Ab5c6+ Kb4c5
185. Ac6xe7+ Kc5d4
186. Ae7g6 Kd4c4
187. Ag6h8 Kc4d5
188. Kc2d3 Kd5c5
189. Kd3e4 Kc5c6
190. Ah8d4+ Kc6d7
191. Ad4f5+ Kd7e8
192. Ke4d5 Ke8f7
193. Kd5e5 Kf7e8
194. Ke5e6 Ke8f8
195. Af5h6+ Kf8e8
196. Ke6d6 Ke8d8
197. Ah6g7 Kd8c8
198. Kd6c6 Kc8b8
199. Kc6b6 Kb8a8
200. Ag7e6 Ka8b8
201. Kb6a6 Kb8a8
202. Ae6c7#

what am I missing,Ed?
edit*
I guess I miss your meaning.Do you mean 202 moves? If so,how can you come to that conclusion?

Point taken, I will escalate my play in this game as far as possible ... and thanks rabbit ... you obviously know my true abilities, something you have exploited already a few times LOL :)

:)@ rabbitoid,if the player in section 6 does not resign the game can take a long time too.
And in section 7,I think this is the typical case for estimation.

interresting situations, the two sections are not in the same state:
in section 6, only a miracle (or a massive australian network breakdown... ) can prevent black from winning; but miracles are not uncommon... and the outcome of this game can modify the standing in this section.

in section 7 the situuation is different. one player has a significant advantage, but the game can still take a LONG time to finish. however, the outcome will have no impact on the section. in that case fencer can be asked to declare a winner to the section, and advance the tournament to round 2.

Estimating is usual only if the time runs out of the ordinary.
But perhaps you are right and I will do this,after waiting a little bit.

Well maybe not ask them directly to resign! But if I was in a tournament and was holding it up, I would never know. I'd appreciate a message asking me to hurry it along a bit if anyone was concerned, becasue I just don't look at tournaments I'm in.
I had a look at the tournament in question, and I know that at least one of the players is extremely pleasant and friendly when asked to make a few more moves to help a tournament along.

I've never heard of estimating a game, but if its the tournament creator finishing games on their behalf - I think it would be more polite to send a short message to the players first. Once they realise they are holding people up, they may make an effort to finish the games.