Or is the same as a 1-0 defeat. I think each game should be rated in turn. Why should months of effort be disregarded? When 24 game matches were played for the Chess World Championship in days of old, each game was rated.

A match counts for ratings as only one game. Winning a ten-wins match 10-0, for example, would result in no greater change in rating than winning 10-9.

I meant to say not calculated.

Why are wins,losses,and draws calculated for rating as they occur;instead of at the end of a match?

Hi George,

Yes, Michel's program was only one week old when it had its first win against Gothic Vortex. I was shocked to say the least, but I am glad it happened, as it lead to the discovery of a bug. The code for deciding whether a Queen + Pawn was better than Archibishop + Knight had a very bad bug. The game began:

1. Nc3 d5 2. Af3 Af6 3. d4 Bg4 4. Nxd5 Qxd5 5. Axd5 Axd5 and Black (Vortex) has given up too much material and loses quickly. Remember, this was played on an 800 MHz Pentium III at 10 seconds per move, these were not "tournament time control" games!

I am not sure what happened to Michel, the TSCP Gothic programmer. We used to play games each night over Yahoo Messenger. Then one night he did not show up. No response to emails. Reinhard Scharnagl also reports no further contact with him. Either he is working in "the bat cave" or he has just disappeared.

I think maybe the other program is really TSCP Gothic in disguise. Notice the programmer is Dutch as well. I am not sure.

Somebody registered their copy of Zillions to play in the tournament. They paid, and must think the $10 is worth the chance at $10,000. So Rob (ChessCarpenter) will be its operator for the tournament.

I am in the process of looking for a way to do a web simulcast, so you can log in and see webcams of the tournament as it happens. More on this as it developes.

I have an older copy of the ChessV software program which plays Gothic Chess. If anyone wants it, I can give it to them for free. Email me (address is on the Gothic Chess web page.)

noted.

Hello and welcome back.

I have some questions regarding G.C computer world championship. Do you know why TSCPGothic program of Tom Kerrigan/Michel Langeveld, is not participating? According to his last words the TSCPGothic was improving faster and faster and even managed to win one game against Gothic Vortex 1.0.1. It would be interesting to have it at the GCCWC.

Also will the games be live anywhere? It would be interesting.

And what about Zillions-Of-Games participation?
I've played 5-6 matches against it in a cousin that had the full version of zillions(not Gothic Evolution Chess,so yes i modified the zillions file to be able to play Gothic Chess(is this legal?Sorry if not:-))), and find the play of zillions very weak. In fact it was a complete beginner. But does it matter? Chess programs was the same at the old days. Some were very weak.

Look this: Helgason,H - Chess Challenger 10 [C50]
Reykjavik, 1979

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.d3 d6 6.h3 0-0 7.Bg5 Ne7 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Qd2 Nc6 10.Nd5 f5?? 11.Qh6 fxe4? 12.Nf6+ Kh8? 13.Qxh7# 1-0
Funny to miss a mate in one.

And do you know if any of these programs will be commercially or free available?

Apparently there is some history between Dano & Bwildman, possibly at another site. That may explain their earlier posts. However, I have PM'ed both of them. Dano has promissed me to only post about Gothic Chess here. Bwildman does not seem to have a grudge against him. Dano seems to want a fresh start, so I have unhidden him. The offending posts have been deleted (by Dano & Bwildman, not by me). Perhaps we can have some peace here for a little while. ;-)

Walter, I will try to get together with you later. Seems we have some differences of opinion. I have to go to work now.

Aloha,
Thad

http://www.gothicchess.org/papers.html

The top item is all about Gothic, Capablanca, and Bird.

Bwildman obviously taken over. This DB will go the way of the ill fated "Music" DB.

I would like to request a ddelineation of what "Thad's little missive" happens to be, and what is so disgreeable, on a term by term basis. I see nothing wrong with his post. Certainly nothing that should get the attention of someone with limited time.

Trouble already, eh? Perhaps the two new moderators would care to send me some messages about their recent decisions and actions? True enough I said a few hand, but overriding the banning of people should be something discussed amoungst ourselves.
As for Thad's little missive, I disagree with quite a few of those things in it and will ban him again if he tries any of that stuff. I'm not sure about bwildman being a moderator or not, but I think Thad is a poor choice. Way too disruptive, opinionated and dictorial. Or have I missed something in all this telling it how it's going to be without even asking? I'm easier with the off topic stuff and I will not let Thad or anyone else censor people for it. As for insults and things of that nature, I will advice against those kind of actions. Just gets people mad, and there's too many chiefs running things and we're be headlong into chaos before long.
Bye danoschek, catch you next time. After I get home I shall have more time to read this board and perhaps just drop the whole thing. I will certainly begin to research Bird's, Capablanca's, and Gothic Chess and patents and related things.

I have changed quite a bit about Vortex, and would like to know if anyone wants a 'live game' against it. I will set up some details on the web site if there are any interested players.

As moderator....I have asked danoschek to clarify,what could be construed as an insult.He was warned,and now on hide.
Lets not let personal opinions members,distract us from discussions concerning Gothic chess.

danoschek....consider this your first warning.

I believe it should be understandable and I also don´t wanna go on for so long about that little remark, it´s not so important for me and most readers. It´s just about that in other languages only very big patents include the expression "patent". Normal patents have other words in those languages which do not include the word.

I can understand(and agree) with the first part of your post,but the second part refers to Ed,and seems inconclusive.Would you mind elaborating so that it is understandable,as to the intent of that statement?

Please don´t get me wrong just because of my plain language. Of course I have greatest respect in the invetion and the work which had come with this. I am not a patent attorney but my father is. So I know some little things just from hearing, but I have never really read something about such things. I only know that in Europe, Germany specially, it is little harder to get and even much more keep a patent than in the US. But there are "small patents", called petty patent, registered design, utility patent etc. with closer protection. And not to forget it always depends on the question who is on the other side and how much is he ready to invest into a quarreling. With my recent remark I only wanted to express that such different understandings of the expression patent could be the reason for some recent misunderstandings between posters. Again, I am not at all an expert on that field and probably I am totally wrong.

As one of the new mods here, I thought I might make this post to outline how I hope to see this board function.

Ed & Dano have been unbanned. bwildman did it. He did not consult me first, but that is fine. Someone asked how the three of us will work as moderators. I guess this board is going to be run by three heads. If something needs to be done by a moderator, whichever of us does it first does it. I suppose if we disagree on banning someone, we'll have to work it out between us, but hopefully it won't come to that. Is this the best situation? Doubtful. Can it work? Likely. If you disagree with this setup, please do not post. Send a PM to one or all of us, or, better yet, to Fencer. It was his decision. Although I'm sure he has better things to do. I, personally, like to stay out of his hair as much as possible. ;-)

I believe removing Ed from the mod's position was the right thing to do. His 'job' here is to provide all his great posts here that encourage us to play and learn about GC. He cannot do that and moderate at the same time.

I also think that the banning of both Ed & Dano was appropriate. They were way over the line with the insults and off topic posts. I thought it should have been done much sooner than it was. I do not think Walter was doing his job as moderator at the time. Fencer must have agreed. Perhaps he was having computer trouble or something. I do not know, but now there are three of us and if anything needs to be done, at least one of us should be around to take care of it.

They have both been unbanned and now there is no one on the banned list. Hopefully it will stay that way.

As far as banning anyone in the future, you know what it takes. Please post accordingly. Please refrain from name calling, badgering, ranting, etc. There are other boards for that stuff. Let's enjoy Gothic Chess.

Mahalo (Hawaiian thanks),
Thad

What personal opinion is that?

I agree,Cerebro....and as moderator,I wount let personal opinion color my judgement.

Patents only last 20 years before the become public domain. Otherwise, can you imagine what the Ford Motor Company would be worth today if they could get a percentage of every vehicle sold?

but no need to point out.. since I've been using that hide feature.. hehe..

Hi Scarlet. Someone else is back too. But thanks for welcoming me back. :)

Welcome back.. So good to have you back again...

for technical reasons you can't ignore moderators entirely ... but I agree ... ~*~ :)

I say we should all pay Iraqi's some money since chess was originally invented in Babylonia. I guess after playing it for so many centuries we all owe them about $100 billion in royalties.

I think that anybody who thinks that Ed's contribution to Gothic chess is not substantial can sit down, think and invent a game themselves. In my opnion Ed deserves a lot of credit for fixing the problems with Capablanca chess. Yes, the game is patentable and if Ed gets a patent with the WTO his invention will be protected even more.

I am someone who enjoys Gothic Chess a lot. I just hope the bickering will be kept to a minimum. Chess breeds critical and strategic thinking. Unfortunately for some players it does not breed maturity. I think it is unfortunate that some people have picked on Ed, Danoscheck, etc. It is even more unfortuante that they would be foolish enough to let some people get under their skin. If somebody makes a stupid comment, just ignore it. Let them drown in their own drool.

he accused fencer wrong period. for sensitive minds insulting. ~*~

Ed, your rating is not the only rating on BrainKing that is off a little. Fencer already said he is working on a script which will actually go back to the first game and recalculate all ratings from the start.

So why should he spend time going in and fixing everyones rating now when it will be fixed once the script is done?

the las time I checked...bickering requires 2....
seems Ed was voicing an opinion,which is entirely acceptable.As is...it is acceptable to voice ours,as long as it doesnt seem like an insult.

Fencer does not refuse to adjust your ratings, as he already replied, there are
higher priorities befor a major change to the ratings system is on timetable anyway ...
I am waiting myself since more than two months btw without running out of dry tissues ... ~*~

Welcome back Ed! ;-)

maybe......just maybe.....you forgot the magic word? just a speculation. ;-)

8 points! What a scandal, should I cancel my membership?

By the way, my rating should be 2433, but Fencer refuses to give me my 8 points back after the server timed out a game against Caissus and gave him 10 points as well.

Just wondering how he could restore our game so quickly yet continue to ignore my requests to have my rating reset to where it should be.

The purpose of the patent is to prevent a company like Hasbro from releasing their own Gothic Chess board game that we invented, not charge a user, like yourself, a fee for playing.

Gothic Chess "looks easy" to have invented, after the fact. I challenge you to come up with another 80-square arrangement where:

1. All pawns are defended in the starting configuration.
2. Many themes from chess still apply (castling, Inidian formations, fianchettoed Bishops).
3. The game is playable (no mates in 2, as in Bird's Chess)
4. It does not already exist.

It is interesting that nobody thinks there is anything wrong with Milton Bradley patenting a game like Stratego. It really is the same thing.

Can Microsoft make a software version of Stratego? Not without paying a licensing fee.

That's all. Anyone wants to distribute the game, they pay a licensing fee.

By the way, the European Patent has been finialized, so, yes, Germany has allowed it, via their proxy vote from London.

Gothic Chess has already "survived" two court victories, so perhaps before you make such statements, you should do some research.

It just shows how little respect people have for attorneys, since everyone offers their own opinion of "the law" and "what is right".

I can't see you doing the same thing is a surgeon was about to cut you open to save your life. Would you tell them "the way it should be?"

I am from Germany, and according to our patent laws Gothic Chess would be never ever patentable. Maybe you would get a patent, but it would not survive a quarreling in a court. But I have no doubt that Ed Trice has invested a lot of time and barrier breaking thinking into this new game, and has invented it, so I have no problem with paying just those 20 dollars. Anyway, to be honest, I would prefer paying for a leading program, not for a game which is based very much on Capablana chess, despite I really like it and Ed has found it first in the chess universe.

Ed does have a patent on Gothic Chess; but I think that if he ever wants to see it become as popular as it should be that he should be more flexible on letting more sites use it.

no one is banned at this moment. please read previous posts.

I personally do not see why Ed was baned to begin with. I think people have a right to say what they feel. And if being attacked to defend themselves. I think Ed should be allowed back!!

If it was so easy to just add a couple of co-monitors then why not do it when Ed was a monitorator. Just does not make any sense, if you ask me.

How a person can be banned?

A)Only one moderator (who wants to ban someone, without the other 2 know) is enough to do it.
B)Any 2 of the 3 moderators if they agree to ban someone, while the other disagree, are enough to do it.
C)All the 3 moderators should agree to ban someone.

Re Dano and Ed Trice - or anyone else!
How about reinstating them BUT the moderator putting their posts on 'hide' or for the moderator to approve the messages before posting?
If they're on topic, reveal them. If they're not, delete them.

before again somebody else offers the service of translating me :D
that meant that I vote for keeping gothic chess at brainking - on about the
wavelength of m.coan - no major interfering with server business presumed, i.e. ... ~*~

I'm sometimes reminded of competing video-codes - a court stated if you
cAn memorize the whole program for a decoder then it's not patentworthy ...
just an allegory, not unconditionally valid here, but every code wants to be default ... ~*~

Now I return to lurker mode *puuff*

red didnt unban you.but I'm glad to read your remarks.

I'm no longer banned and indeed I'm here just for
gothic chess and any senseful capablanca idea more ... ~*~

it is an interesting point. The internet is still open season as proven by the failure of numerous prosecutors to secure jurisdiction on something that belongs to no and yet every country at once. Good observation about the real world tourneys....so few games and sports that we enjoy are trademarked so who knows?

A question of registered trade mark? It's an interesting point. Presumably no licence is needed to hold a tournament of gothic chess, even if so named, in the physical world, but how about if such a tournament were played with home-made sets?

Ed is not banned.