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15. August 2011, 09:42:28
gogul 
By the way, it's not capitalism that won over a soviet failure. It was the peoples lionhearted courage, not the terror organization CIA in the chicken background. Hungary, Poland 1956. Czechoslovakia 1968, they tore down the wall, not reagan, not kohl, it was the "wir sind das volk". That's something completely different. Capitalism is seductive to some with a affinity to immorality, but it's a total outdated attitude.

15. August 2011, 09:49:50
Übergeek 바둑이 
Subject: Re:
gogul:

The Soviet collapse had little to do with the people. If anything, there was no revolution there. There were no masses storming the Kremlin. The Soviet Union failed because the economy was bad. Russia (and most of the other republics) depended on the sale of commodities (oil, gas, metals, minerals, etc.) In the 1980s there was massive deflation in commodity prices and that lead to a collapse of the Soviet economy. Today Russia is better, because the prices of oil, gas, metals and other commodities are so high. In the end, the Russian people didn't really fight to end communism. It was not even a popular uprising. It wa an economic failure, nothing more.

15. August 2011, 09:55:01
gogul 
Subject: Re:
Modified by gogul (15. August 2011, 10:02:56)
Übergeek 바둑이: funnily Switzerland was among the first countries with agriculture planned economy. And it worked.




google for "Prager Frühling 1968"

15. August 2011, 10:01:25
Übergeek 바둑이 
Subject: Re:
gogul:

All econnomies in the wrold today are planned, or to be more accurate: managed. Since the end of the Great Depression all governments have instituted central banks that effectively manage and plan the economy. There are strict controls over interest rates, treasury bill and other bond tendering, money eupply, etc. During the Cold War capitalist countries criticized the centrally planned system of the Soviet Union, but never admitted to effectively doing the same through their central banks. A good example was this last week in which Ben Bernanke said that the USa would not raise its interest rates for the next two years. They have already "planned" to "stimulate the economy" with low interest rates. It is funny that the failure of the american economy today is similar to the failure of the Soviet economy. Back in the 1980s the Soviet Union borrowed too much money and was not able to pay back its loans. Does that sound similar to the USA (and most capitalist economies) today?

15. August 2011, 10:15:51
gogul 
Subject: Re:
Übergeek 바둑이: It does, indeed.
In '91 it was the people defending Jelzin and Gorbachev from being putched. At this point the russians wanted to maintain the soviet union, but wanted a democratic elected and strong president. The sovietunion was struck in a economic immobility, and the people absolutely wanted, needed a change. Through the time, people went out to the street, to be tanked down. From weirdos in marxist disguise.

15. August 2011, 10:23:24
gogul 
Subject: Re:
Übergeek 바둑이: I can I give you a notion of the silent anarchy, the spirited fight against injustice, the revolution of gestures, the wipe out with intelligence and the since ever better arguments. That's a philosophic work. No baseball bats involved. The fight goes on since when? 5000 years? Our generation can make significant steps forward, and we have to. The world is at the edge of being destroyed.

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