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12. September 2010, 20:57:15

Übergeek 바둑이

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Subject: Re: .. And what about the fact that Judaism rejects the idea Christ is the Messiah??

(V):

> The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman,
> but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.

Mary is virgin because in that way there can be no doubt about the parentage of Jesus. If Mary were not a virgin, somebody could say that Jesus was the son of a man and not the son of God. Thus the Immaculate Conception is the miracle that proves that Jesus is the son of God, and not of Joseph, Mary's husband. We can compare this with Greek gods consorting with humans and giving birth to demi-gods. Zeus would take human or animal form and physically have intercourse with women. God is different in that the Immaculate Conception is not a physical act, but a spiritual act. Jesus is born out of God himself entering Mary's body without the need for physical intercourse. For Christians that miracle belongs to God alone.

> Judaism does not demand that everyone convert to the religion.

However, only those who follow Abraham's Covenant with God can be Jews. From early on Jews had a sense of heredity. Abraham retains Isaac, the son of Sarah, but expells Ishmail, son of Hagar (Sarah's handmaiden). Jews did not pursue conversion of others because of a sense of uniqueness and heredity, and because throughout their history the Jews fought against invaders from northern Africa, Asia Minor and Europe. Being prosecuted meant that conversion of others was both impractical and potentially dangerous.

The conversion of others into Christianity is something born out of the teachings of Jesus himself, and the miracle of the conversion of Saint Paul. Jesus converts his apostles, and later he apperas to Saul (later called Paul) and converts him through a miracle. Paul's ministry starts with the conversion of the Roman Sergius Paulus. The conversion of others into Christianity comes from Jesus being the savior of humanity. Only those who accept Jesus as their savior can enter His kingdom (i.e. Heaven), thus conversion is necessary in order to be saved.

Jews have no such stimulus for conversion because salvation will come when the Messiah arrives. For Christians Jesus is the Messiah.

12. September 2010, 23:24:20

Mort

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Subject: Re: .. And what about the fact that Judaism rejects the idea Christ is the Messiah??

Übergeek 바둑이:

"Mary is virgin because in that way there can be no doubt about the parentage of Jesus. If Mary were not a virgin, somebody could say that Jesus was the son of a man and not the son of God...."

Nope. Some could say that a virgin birth has more to do about spirit than genetics.

"Jews did not pursue conversion of others because of a sense of uniqueness and heredity, "

I heard it was because conversion was a major learning curve.. more to do with current thought from various Rabbi's. Same as Ghandi on his thoughts of conversion from religion to another... such conversion is not to be taken likely due to having to learn the language of the religion you are thinking of converting to.

"The conversion of others into Christianity comes from Jesus being the savior of humanity. Only those who accept Jesus as their savior can enter His kingdom (i.e. Heaven), thus conversion is necessary in order to be saved."

Is it? Is that straight out of Roman Catholicism after those who disagreed with the church at the time of formation were put to the sword, burnt, hung, crucified, etc by the early Roman church? Many fellowships of Christians were killed, their books burnt by fellow Christians in order for a formal doctrine on who and what Christ said/is to be put into a standardised text.

.. again as I mentioned before on this board.. what religion is God?