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12. November 2009, 18:31:37
Übergeek 바둑이 
Subject: Re:
Artful Dodger:

>  the US promotes self-rule and opposes oppressive governments (when it is able)

Nothing could be further away from the historical truth.  During the 19th century the United States was generally busy building its territory and expanding militarily.  After the Spanish-American War the United States turned its attention to Latin America and it set out to impose its political and economic system on Latinamerican nations.  For most of the 20th century, both before and during the Cold War, the American government supported oppresive fascist dictatorships in Latin America in order to gain an economic advantage.  After WW II the CIA pursued a very aggressive fascist agenda in Latin America, Asia and Africa.

The United States as a promoter of democracy is a myth born out of the Regan administration.  Ronald Regan had to contend with the ever inquisitive eye of the media and its effect on the American public.  Before CNN was created the American government would literally get away with murder (for example, the murder of Salvador Allende in Chile).  As the American public became exposed to an ever increasing and faster flow of news, it became more and more difficult to carry out covert operations in Latin America.  So the Regan Administration set out to create the myth that American foreign policy was promoting democracy around the world while at the same time they were giving money and weapons to some of the most brutal dictatorships in the western hemisphere.  Americans have willfully ignored the role that the CIA played in dictatorships in Latin American over the 20th century because it is more comfortable to believe that capitalists are the good guys rather than promoters of fascism.

>  And I do think it's bad policy for any country to impose its own ideals on others unless they ask for the help.
>  At least when the US does it, there is freedom in view.

The ultimate result of American foreign policy during the Cold War was to impose the American political and economic system.  Today many Latin American countries are opting for left-wing governments that are not in line with American political and economic interests.  Several Latin American countries have chosen democratically elected governments with very strong leanings to the left.  The American brand of right wing governments was imposed, as the popular will in Latin America has showed.  Now the CIA does not know what to do, and a return to fascism seems as the only solution left to them, as the recent coup d'etat in Honduras has shown.

>  Take East Berlin for an example ...   If a country were to impose its ideals on another, one is certainly
>  preferred over the other.

Both communists and Capitalits sent millions to their deaths in order to keep their systems alive.  Capitalism also murdered its disidents, by the millions.  Capitalists can raise the finger and point to Communists, but that is merely the hypocrysy of the system we live under.

>  That said, I say leave other countries alone unless they ask for help. 
>  And to that I'd include any $$ help as well.  I'd give the world exactly what they want. 
>  Stay out of their business except where it concerns our shared interests.

I think that western governments keep being self-righteous and trying to tell others how to govern, how to run the economy, what to consume, what weapons to build, etc.  Our governments do it because it is profitable to do so.  Staying out of other countries would be excellent policy, even if the capitalist economy were to shrink by 80%.

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