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29. January 2007, 01:15:54
Pioneer54 
Subject: New Format
What follows received NO RESPONSE on the 'features' board, so let's try it here:

I'd like to investigate the possibility of establishing "double elimination" tournaments. Eight entrants may be optimal, although any of the multiples available for single elimination would suffice.

Here is a proposal. Each player would start with two game points. Following each round, points are DEDUCTED for results as follows:
WIN -- No points
DRAW -- one-half point
LOSS -- one full point

Players would be eliminated whenever their point total drops to zero. Therefore, each entrant will play in at least the first two rounds.

In the first round, players would be paired normally according to ratings. In the second round, winners play winners and losers play losers, etc. and in successive rounds players are paired against others with point totals equal or within a half-point of theirs, as closely as possible. Also, to balance the opportunity, each player should have roughly the same amount of Blacks as Whites over the course of the tournament.

It may occur that an odd number of players would start a round, which could be resolved by issuing a bye to the lowest rated player with the fewest points, except if the tournament is reduced to three players, a round-robin round should commence until two players remain, and then match play until one is the winner.

There may be other flaws that need to be ironed out, yet the system would produce interesting games and results.

29. January 2007, 09:41:39
joshi tm 
Subject: Re: New Format
Modified by joshi tm (29. January 2007, 09:42:22)
Pioneer54: I know also a nice tournament format, but that only works if player's BKR are evenly.

All players are put in a gigantic stair match with 3 pts.

Rules are like stairs, but when a games resolves, the winner recieves nothing (but BKR points), the loser recieves a -1 penalty. Of course, having zero points causes direct elimination. The last one standing is the winner.

29. January 2007, 21:40:44
Pioneer54 
Subject: Re: New Format
joshi tm: Interesting! If only we could test these theories
:))

29. January 2007, 21:41:45
joshi tm 
Subject: Re: New Format
Pioneer54: Sort of Pond tourney. We should ask Fencer...

29. January 2007, 22:25:27
tonyh 
Subject: Re: New Format
Pioneer54: Yes, interesting, a Swiss Tournament.

31. January 2007, 05:46:17
Pioneer54 
Subject: Re: New Format
tonyh: Swiss is a good basis; after all, it is the most widely used in OTB tournaments. From that system, many interesting formats could be created.

31. January 2007, 08:29:42
tonyh 
Subject: Re: New Format
Pioneer54: You've said it!! Mind you, I imagine it would be horribly difficult to program; fencer would be really stretched on this one!

31. January 2007, 08:59:47
Pioneer54 
Subject: Re: New Format
tonyh: Quite true, arrangements would not be easy by any means. But Filip has the aptitude for this, as he has proven many times heretofore. At issue is whether he wants to expand the methods of tournament creation, or (to be more direct) whether he can be persuaded that he wants to by us! The only way that will happen is if enough members request it.

The single elimination tournaments are tilted in favor of the highest rated player. In the new types of tournaments we've discussed, that player might still win, but it would require more effort and exacting play, and the chances among all the entrants would be more balanced.

I also think that the restriction limiting pawns to one tournament should be lifted. It doesn't induce membership and, as to the databases, I don't see the difference between storing 20 tournament games as opposed to 20 casual games, or some combination thereof.

Some things to ponder .....

31. January 2007, 10:44:46
tonyh 
Subject: Re: New Format
Pioneer54: Quite often, playing in tournaments, one meets players rated 400 points or more below your own raying. You may get 1 point for winning, with sometimes a loss of over 100 points for a loss!!
Swiss tournaments would, to a large extent, stop this happening. They combine the best of knock-outs and all-play-all tournaments.

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