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 Chinese Chess

Xiangqi - Chinese Chess

Knights and Rooks may join the Xiangqi Fellowship which has additional boards for discussion and resources (links to other sites).
Pawns may not join the fellowships, but links from the Xiangqi resources board are have been copied to a Resources message.
Create a New game of Xiangqi,  Established ratings,   Provisional ratings,  The Rules of Xiangqi.
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4. Octombrie 2006, 10:50:55
gringo 
And whom do you consider a master?

4. Octombrie 2006, 10:48:54
cheating up up 
Subiectul: Re: two knights handicap
kleineme:
i should change my wording to make it clear:
if you won against a master who play without two knights, then you can call yourself a first dan, the lowerst ranked player. you begin to know the game, otherwise you are just a layman.

as to two knights handcap game it is played between two players one is stronger than the other.
the center pawn is capture if the piece did it by deliver a check, this is the rule, the center pawn is called "the iron pawn", if it had been moved, then it is no more an "iron pawn"
i don't know how you could play the two knights handicap online, unless you write a special program to do it.
there are one knight handicap, 3 moves, two moves and 1 move handicap etc.

4. Octombrie 2006, 10:32:31
cheating up up 
Subiectul: Re: can two advisors and two elephants to win a game?
kleineme:
how about the other side have a knight? it is possible.
how about the other side have a knight,a rook,and a cannon?

4. Octombrie 2006, 09:46:42
kleineme 
Subiectul: Re: two knights handicap
Modificat de kleineme (4. Octombrie 2006, 09:48:07)
435152: a beginner will never win against a master even if gets odds of two knights (well, maybe, if he is allowed to capture the center pawn):

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Example 4

with more examples in the May archives

4. Octombrie 2006, 09:19:16
kleineme 
Subiectul: Re: can two advisors and two elephants to win a game?
435152: no, this a draw, because none of your remaining pieces can deliver mate, and stalemate isn't possible either

4. Octombrie 2006, 07:20:39
cheating up up 
Subiectul: two knights handicap
if you won against a master who play without two knights, then you can call yourself a beginner(the first dan, the lowerst ranked player)

4. Octombrie 2006, 07:15:32
cheating up up 
Subiectul: can two advisors and two elephants to win a game?
to win a game without attacking pieces is possible?

23. Septembrie 2006, 10:58:28
redofXQ 
Subiectul: The sizes of the game
Hello,

In your club, which are the dimensions of the xiangqi chessboard and the diameter of the pieces that you use?
I would want to buy myself a set of the game but beforehand, I would want to know the sizes that habitually are used.

15. Septembrie 2006, 07:19:37
jannix 
Subiectul: New tournament of the fellowship "Oriental games"
You are cordially invited to join the new tournament of the fellowship "Oriental games" opened to all.
The supported games are:
Chess, Chinese Chess, Japanese Chess, Loop chess, Ambiguous Chess, Reversi 8x8, Go, Go 9x9 and Go 13x13.
You can be registered to the adress:
Oriental Games (15. Septembre 2006, 06:56:47)

26. August 2006, 13:25:45
gringo 
Five more players needed to start this Chinese Chess Elimination Tournament:

LOSE A GAME AND YOUR OUT

Please come and join!

31. Iulie 2006, 19:42:37
gringo 
Modificat de gringo (31. Iulie 2006, 19:43:07)
There is such a rule (although I don't find it written down ). If there are 50 moves played without taking a piece the game should (can, must???) be declared draw.

31. Iulie 2006, 19:34:12
Beren the 32nd 
Subiectul: 50 move rule?
I see mention of a 50 move rule below (by Chicago Bulls). However, I don't see it mentioned in the BK rules. Is there such a rule in chinese chess, and if so under what conditions does it apply?

17. Iulie 2006, 16:33:41
jannix 
Subiectul: A collective and teaching game
Within the fellowship Xiangqi, we began a game of Xiangqi in educational matter which sees to be opposed a team of players to a player of good level.
The choice of each move of the team is done
after debate and it is that which is very enriching to progress in the knowledge of the tactics and the strategies of the game. We have besides also within the team of good players who by their comments bring to us much.
If you are interested to take part in this action, it is enough that you make the request to enter the fellowship "Xiangqi" to the address :
http://brainking.com/fr/ShowFellowship?fid=429

Come many, you will be welcome.

13. Iulie 2006, 13:53:45
jannix 
Subiectul: About the Xiangqi fellowship
Hello,

Following the abandonment of the preceding president of
association "Xiangqi" of this site, I became the new president.
If you want to become member of this association, do not hesitate to make the request at the address :
http://brainking.com/fr/ShowFellowship?fid=429

12. Iunie 2006, 16:34:07
rod03801 
Subiectul: Moderator needed
Modificat de rod03801 (12. Iunie 2006, 16:52:05)
Due to the change in membership status of the previous moderator of this board, it needs a new moderator.

Anyone interested, please send me (or any Brainking Staff member), a message indicating your interest. We will choose from the messages received. Some knowledge of the game is of course preferred! :-)

22. Mai 2006, 02:00:17
DragonKing 
Subiectul: Re: Enough to win?
Lordi: When I first began to play XiangQi I asked the question about enough material to win- and a much more experienced player told me that the basic rule is that to win I would need one more attacking piece than my opponent had defenders. I have found that it works a s a rule of thumb. My king of course is always an attacking piece.

1. Mai 2006, 01:09:25
Kili 
Subiectul: Re: Enough to win?
Modificat de Kili (1. Mai 2006, 01:10:36)
Beren the 32nd: King + one soldier against King is a win because the stalemate in XianQi is a win. Chariots, Horses, Canyons, Soldiers and the King too can attack to the opponent king. Elephants and Advisors just can defend.

1. Mai 2006, 00:31:02
Beren the 32nd 
Subiectul: Re: Enough to win?
Matarilevich: Thanks. That sounds pretty definite. But I guess having an extra soldier, elephant or advisor is not normally enough to get a win is it?

29. Aprilie 2006, 23:59:48
Kili 
Subiectul: Re: Enough to win?
Beren the 32nd: If you get a chariot for a horse (canyon) and your opponent doesn´t get any compensation in exchange for it, then you get an enough advantage for winning the game.

29. Aprilie 2006, 23:49:19
Beren the 32nd 
Subiectul: Enough to win?
Can anyone share their experience on this question? If I win a chariot for a horse or cannon early on in the game, should this normally be enough to win the game (if I play well) or does my opponent often have chances to draw (if he plays well)?

21. Aprilie 2006, 02:49:05
onigoroshi 
Subiectul: large pieces
panzerschiff: I have a thin plastic board that came with my large pieces and have yet to find a suitable wooden version. I will look next time I'm in China, but the only wooden ones I ever saw were the ones in the parks where these large pieces were used.

18. Aprilie 2006, 22:21:10
kleineme 
Subiectul: Xiangqi-Price-Tournament for players below 1800
Modificat de kleineme (18. Aprilie 2006, 22:22:03)
Do you play Chinese Chess?
Do you have a Xiangqi-BKR below 1800?
Do you want to win a 1-Year-Rook-Membership?

Then this is the right tournament for you! Just join and try to be the best - the winner takes it all!

In order to keep the competition within the targeted rating range, three special rules will be enforced:

- No unrated players!
- Players whose BKR goes over 1799 until the start of the tournament will be removed!
- Players whose highest published BKR has been 1900 or above will be removed!

31. Martie 2006, 07:59:59
mangue 
Subiectul: 6-months rook tournament
Modificat de mangue (2. Aprilie 2006, 17:31:00)
Xiang-Qi

starts automatically as soon as 8 players registered

(recreated)

4. Martie 2006, 01:42:06
panzerschiff 
Subiectul: Large Xiangqi boards
Several months ago I bought a set of Xiangqi disks roughly 2 inches in diameter. Yutropian who I bought them from did not have a board to accomodate such large disks and I never came across anything on the internet in my google searches to accomodate such large disks. Anybody know of a source to buy a board that would fit these pieces?

24. Februarie 2006, 19:14:02
Eriisa 
Subiectul: Congrats gringo!
The Tournament: Chinese Chess Extravaganza (Chinese Chess) is finished.

Winner of the tournament: gringo

23. Februarie 2006, 19:06:20
gringo 
Subiectul: Xiangqi Tournament
Modificat de gringo (23. Februarie 2006, 19:07:29)
I have created a Xiangqi-Tournament, which can be joined by everybody interested:

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=14196&trnst=0&u=19298

No prices, but a lot of fame to win!

13. Februarie 2006, 23:38:48
kleineme 
Subiectul: XQ tournaments for BKR <= 1900 and BKR <= 1300
Modificat de kleineme (13. Februarie 2006, 23:41:22)
Hi,

if you are rated below 1900 resp. below 1300 then these two tournaments might be interesting for you:

below 1300 (open until 06/02/20)

below 1900 (open until 06/02/26)

Come on and join!

1. Februarie 2006, 22:16:56
mangue 
interesting in asian rules mentioned is :

The side who violates a rule, asked by the referee to alter, and repeats the violation for three times will be ruled to lose.

1. Februarie 2006, 22:15:14
mangue 
Pythagoras: the rules are very difficult to implement. Even if it seems quite easy for check-check-check-check with the same piece, it will be much more difficult to understand for chasing. If you attack a protected piece of the same value, than it is no more chasing. If you chase than chess than chase it is -apparently- legal. So quite a nightmare to implement (and to understand). I guess a way to "request draw" is probably the best, because most of the situations can be quickly judged by Fencer.

27. Ianuarie 2006, 16:26:16
Anencephal 
Subiectul: Re:
Pythagoras: that number is another subject for tests
maybe if more than 3 checks, in chess start to drop the score toward draw slowly, in xiangqi exclude this condition if trapped by repetition

26. Ianuarie 2006, 17:41:32
Chicago Bulls 
Well it was my fault too since i used the normally in the wrong place.
Instead of: "this can't be done normally" i should have used: "this normally can't be done"....

26. Ianuarie 2006, 17:34:44
gringo 
Subiectul: Re:
Pythagoras: ah, sorry, didn't read carefully enough. I thought you wouldn't give this case any importance.

26. Ianuarie 2006, 17:05:34
Chicago Bulls 
Subiectul: Re:
gringo: I know that's why i put "normally" in what i've said....

26. Ianuarie 2006, 13:31:29
gringo 
Subiectul: Rules
Well I think I don't need to write the rules down as they are all here: http://www.clubxiangqi.com/rules/asiarule.htm

(the link I already mentioned)

26. Ianuarie 2006, 13:19:37
gringo 
Subiectul: Re:
Modificat de gringo (26. Ianuarie 2006, 13:27:59)
Pythagoras: Sorry Pythagoras, but I think you are not totally right. E.g. because of the cannons it's an everyday's situation to answer a check with a check. The situation mangue mentioned is a draw, as both players violate the rules and it doesn't matter which player began:

http://www.clubxiangqi.com/rules/d4.htm


Another thing: At IYT they programmed, that its forbidden to check more than three times by moving the same piece, which is complete nonse, because you often need to give some hidden checks (with cannon and horse eg.), where you take several opponents pieces with every hidden check. So the important point is, if there is a notable progress in the position or not...

If I find the time this evening I will write down the repetition rules as far as I know them.

26. Ianuarie 2006, 12:18:33
Chicago Bulls 
Subiectul: Re:
mangue: Gringo maybe can confirm, but perpetual check lose the game for the attacker, but as the link he references, the rules are so complex, than it is very hard to apply (would require an expert in XiangQi and lots of hours).

The rules are straightforward! Nothing complicated i see..... Also this rule for King checks is valid always:
Under any circumstance, the side that perpetually checks with one piece or several pieces, will be ruled a loss.


if you do perpetual chess, and your opponent too (that is you defend a check with a check),

This can't be done normally, since you have to resolve the check (that means to get out of check) before playing another check to the opponent....

Anencephal: Checks in a row by a piece or multiple pieces.

This is not well defined....
  • At least 2 Checks in a row by a piece or multiple pieces.
  • At least 3 Checks in a row by a piece or multiple pieces.
  • 3 Checks in a row by a piece or multiple pieces.
    That is well defined situations.
    Normally after 2-3 checks i a row, that repeat the same position periodically, should be a valid way to program it.....

  • 26. Ianuarie 2006, 08:29:58
    mangue 
    <Fencer:
    > Because it's more complicated in Xiangqi,
    > instead of declaring a draw I would have to ask
    > the player to stop doing the repetition moves
    > because it's against the rules. And if he
    > refuses to do it, I would have to solve it again.

    If a player repeat checking or chasing or threatening mate, you can send him a warning, and if he does again, he will lose the game.

    Gringo maybe can confirm, but perpetual check lose the game for the attacker, but as the link he references, the rules are so complex, than it is very hard to apply (would require an expert in XiangQi and lots of hours).

    Ex: if you do perpetual chess, and your opponent too (that is you defend a check with a check), than it is draw ! well, the "asian rules" are very complex, and Fencer it is up to you to define a "simpler" variant

    26. Ianuarie 2006, 03:11:53
    Anencephal 
    Checks in a row by a piece or multiple pieces.

    As repetition detection has a desirable effect on move tree in an engine, I was thinking about cost vs benifit of perpetual check detection

    Repetition will capture some of them, and king movement is limited in Xiangqi

    25. Ianuarie 2006, 22:07:31
    Chicago Bulls 
    Subiectul: Re:
    Anencephal: What do you mean about perpetual check? How do you define it?
    Eveything that is well defined it is programmable....

    25. Ianuarie 2006, 21:46:57
    Anencephal 
    I'm interested in programing aspect of it. Repetition is easy to detect efficiantly but i had not thought about perpetual check. seems tricky.

    25. Ianuarie 2006, 14:47:54
    gringo 
    Subiectul: Re: Drawing Rules
    Fencer: but still easier than to program it.

    25. Ianuarie 2006, 14:14:59
    Fencer 
    Subiectul: Re: Drawing Rules
    gringo: Because it's more complicated in Xiangqi, instead of declaring a draw I would have to ask the player to stop doing the repetition moves because it's against the rules. And if he refuses to do it, I would have to solve it again.

    25. Ianuarie 2006, 12:43:16
    Chicago Bulls 
    Subiectul: Re: Drawing Rules
    Fencer: And that is the correct handling of the situation. There is not an automated draw call after a 3-fold repetition (repetition of the same position for 3 consecutive or non-consecutive times)! The player should claim the draw to the opponent first, when 3-fold or 50 move rule criteria appear and if the opponent doesn't agree then it should be claimed to you! If he doesn't offer the draw and plays one move, he loses the right to do it..... So if a player wants a draw after a 3-fold repetition or by 50 move rule, he should claim that before he plays his move to the opponent....

    Same occurs to Chinese Chess.

    25. Ianuarie 2006, 12:36:28
    gringo 
    Subiectul: Re: Drawing Rules
    Fencer: So then why not keep it like this in Chinese Chess?

    25. Ianuarie 2006, 12:19:10
    Fencer 
    Subiectul: Re: Drawing Rules
    Anencephal: No, it was never necessary. According to exact rules of Chess, such situation must be reported to the tournament director [me] who decides if a draw should be declared or not.

    25. Ianuarie 2006, 00:29:22
    Anencephal 
    Subiectul: Re: Drawing Rules
    Fencer: Does BrainKing detect threefold repeatition in Chess?

    24. Ianuarie 2006, 22:32:10
    Fencer 
    Subiectul: Re: Drawing Rules
    gringo: Maybe I should code a virtual judge? We could use some kind of an artifical intelligence here.

    24. Ianuarie 2006, 16:19:13
    gringo 
    Subiectul: Drawing Rules
    Modificat de gringo (24. Ianuarie 2006, 17:08:49)
    As kleineme mentioned the repetition rules are a bit complicated. Official rules are to be found here:

    http://www.clubxiangqi.com/rules/asiarule.htm


    Judgement of some typical situations here (end of the document):

    http://www.clubxiangqi.com/?F=rules



    In Chinese Chess does not exist a strict rule like "3-time repetition is draw (or loss)". In a tournament the judge will call the players to alter their moves and only if they don't he will judge the game a loss or a draw. A game would be draw e.g. if both players play "allowed" moves, e.g. such with which they don't attack any pieces.

    24. Ianuarie 2006, 15:08:59
    Chicago Bulls 
    Have you implement(coded) the 3-checks in a row to automatically declared as a loss or better to prevent a player for playing a 3-check in a row as an illegal move.....?
    Also if yes, does the implementation uses the 3 check in a row by the same piece or by various pieces?

    24. Ianuarie 2006, 14:57:18
    Fencer 
    Subiectul: Re: Perpetual check
    DragonKing: No computer understands the term "perpetual". It must be defined in a discrete math, for example 3 checks in a row (with the same position of all pieces) can be taken as a perpetual check.

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