Tuesday: I have crazy glue gloves to attach to the ankles of those flying towards the sky

Tuesday: Better get a Brazilian wax, things might get a lil hairy

(V): I agree,both sides have valid issues to be addressed.Moving forward respectfully towards eachother is the only path to a solution, not pissing contests

In the long term regarding Israel and Palestine.. some stability needs to be found/made so that both sides of the conflict feel safe. The alternative is a long term (as it has been) conflict over the right to have a place you can call home.

With all the deaths, prosecution from both sides I would have thought that if the people were asked honestly (not the politicians) they would rather have peace than another 50 years of distrust, fear and wastage of resources.

The USA could do with saving the billions they donate to Israel each year in military aid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMchDxxFmRQ

Is it true that 40% of American Christians want the end of the world just to be right? Would you want those who believe as such to have their finger on the big red button!!

Übergeek 바둑이: Jewish neighborhoods in Egypt, Yemen, Lebanon, Tunisia, and Morocco, burning synagogues and assaulting residents. A pogrom in Tripoli, Libya, left 18 Jews dead and 25 injured; the survivors were herded into detention centers. Of Egypt's 4,000 Jews, 800 were arrested, including the chief rabbis of both Cairo and Alexandria, and their property sequestered by the government. The ancient communities of Damascus and Baghdad were placed under house arrest, their leaders imprisoned and fined. A total of 7,000 Jews were expelled, many with merely a satchel.[111]

wiki source

Übergeek 바둑이: The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries was a mass departure of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Muslim countries, in the 20th century. Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.


From 1948 until the early 1970s, 800,000-1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951; and 600,000 by 1972. Lebanon was the only Arab country to see an increase in its Jewish population after 1948, which was due to an influx of refugees from other Arab countries. However, by the 1970s the Jewish community of Lebanon too dwindled due to hostilities of the Lebanese Civil War.

The reasons for the exodus included persecution, antisemitism, political instability, and the desire to fulfill Zionist yearnings. A significant proportion of Jews left due to political insecurity and the rise of Arab nationalism. Many were required to sell, abandon, or smuggle their property out of the countries they were fleeing. By 2002 Jews from Arab countries and their descendants constituted about 40% of Israel's population.

Additional 200,000 Jews from non-Arab Muslim countries left their homes due to increasing insecurity and growing hostility since 1948. Many Iranian and Kurdish Jews fled and abandoned their property in fear, that they would remain hostages of hostile regimes. When combined all together, as much as 37% of Jews in Islamic countries - the Arab world, Turkey, Iran and Afghanistan, left for Israel between May 1948 and the beginning of 1952. They amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Artful Dodger:

> Obama sides with the terrorists against Israel. What a shameful president. He is a disgrace to America.

Why? Because he wants Israel to go to the borders the UN had given to them in the first place? I think the shameful thing is that nobody cares about what happens to Palestinians. Israel had its borders set by the UN. They might be justified in saying that they need some sort of buffer zone against their neighbors, but in reality it is all about ownership of land and water resources.

What about Palestinians? Have they not lived in that land for thousands of years too? Were they not driven out of their homes and their land to carve out Israel? If Palestinians are to live in exile for the rest of eternity, they should at least have some land to live in. People forget that Palestinians became militant as a result of being driven out of their homeland.

Of course, as a Christian you must know that Jesus was born in Palestine. But then, nobody cares that those descendants of the same culture as that of Jesus have their homes bulldozed by Israel's military.

Artful Dodger: And don't be fooled by Netenyahu's response.The more he elevates the value of the 1967 concession the more he will get in return.He didn't just fall off a matzoh ball truck.This whole event may have been strategically planned

Artful Dodger: I would have prefered Obama kept his opinion inside the negotiation room, but it might be inevitable that they move back to pre 1967 borders.It will be alot of give and take, strategically championing a Palastinian negotiation point will pay off when it comes to something being requested of them.I do it all the time in business.I'll let the small concessions I make pile up onto my side, and then use them for a major concession on the other side.

Bernice: told I made a grammatical error. If that is all.. I've listened and I will aim to remember just for you and Pedro regarding whose and who's .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5hKQyFBzgI&

48:29 Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against disbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

The Arabic word “ashidda” does not mean ruthless, but strong and firm. Ruthless is an unacceptable translation. Translations of ashidda:

Pickthall: hard; Yusuf Ali: strong; Daryabadi: stern; Khan-Hilali: severe; F. Malik: strong; Shakir: firm of heart; Arberry: hard; Irving: strict

Also, the disbelievers being referred to in these verses are the those who persecuted and attacked the Muslims. Shaykh Fawzee Al-Atharee said the following:
And similarly the disbeliever, if he has good character with us and good manners with us and good way and treatment with us, then we have good manners with him, good behaviour with him, good way with him and good treatment of him. And if his manners are bad and his behaviour is bad [i.e. abusive and cruel], then we treat him with accordance to how he is treating us. This is something permissible in the legislation. But the Prophet s.a.w.s. has indicated very clearly in all the narrations that have been brought and throughout his life, that there must be a matter of balance and to be just. And that is in dealing with the people of disbelief and also in dealing with those who have faith.

The Muslims were commanded to stand up for their religion and defend themselves against the persecution of the disbelievers. Again, if we examine the historical context, we also find that this is referring to those who attacked the Muslims continuously.


************************************

If a country attacked the USA (like when Japan did) what would be the response of the Christian Americans?

Pedro Martínez: he will never be told.

Pedro Martínez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afFw91fvNJM

(V): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOJqAU4sbLg

Pedro Martínez: Awww Pedro, that that is all you find wrong with my post I take as a complement

Pedro Martínez:LMAO!

(V): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04YAkWJw3Js

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5guoJNWcIU4


Tell the soldiers who's base was bombed in the middle of an English town that the IRA were ok. The buildings that were bombed are still boarded up. The roads that everyone in the area uses are only about 50 yards away.

... I heard recently in looking up on Northern Ireland and need help with understanding Peter King(R-NY) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRv-dyAZ0SY

Islamic terrorists are no.11 on the list of terror groups in the USA.. the KKK and white supremacists groups rate higher on the threat meter!!!!

A bomb has been made safe in the Republic of Ireland just hours before the Queen's visit.

It was discovered on a bus outside the Glen Royal Hotel in Maynooth, County Kildare at 2130 BST on Monday.

It was later made safe by an Irish army bomb disposal team.

An Irish army bomb disposal unit is dealing with a suspect device at Dublin's Phoenix Park. A suspect package found earlier near the Luas tram line at Inchicore was a hoax.

A suspicious device found at Fairview Park in Dublin also turned out to be a hoax.

The alerts came ahead of the Queen's historic trip to the Irish Republic.

Speaking on BBC NI's Good Morning Ulster, Irish prime minister Enda Kenny condemned those who left the bomb.

"Obviously, the Garda authorities working together with the Brtiish authorities in respect of safety for the Queen have put in place a really serious operation in respect of safeguarding the Queen," he said.

"The vast, vast majority of people here welcome the visit of the Queen and her party. We hope that they will have a very enjoyable time here."

Artful Dodger: what with.... their bare hands against guns and gunships?

Propaganda

Artful Dodger: Sure.. more propaganda from the depths of the American proletariat.

"They bomb Israel all day long and you are silent."

No they don't.. It's become another Northern Ireland. But this time it ain't the British Army and gov supporting the loyalists (in secret *cough*) but the USA allowing Israel to reply to attacks at a killing rate far in excess of what the Palestinians or others can achieve or want to do. At least in Northern Ireland most of the fighting was by small guerilla groups not a fully equipped modern army.

All the time small minority governments (and royal families) keep eating the oil gravy train, oil companies make loads of cash and more people keep dying just for some to say "it's fair because they did it"

Übergeek 바둑이: shhhh it's not allowed to be said that Israel has nukes.. as well as probably having chemical and biological weapons capability.

After watching a nazi war movie on the ghetto's in Poland... I would have though that in itself would lead the Israelis away from such policies. Resistance is a natural progression of being made to live in what are virtually prison camps.

(V):

I think it goes beyond the USA. Everybody (that means the superpowers, the Security Council, the General Assembly and Nato) have unilaterally sided with Israel. Palestinians get some support from Arab states and to some extent Iran. However, those with the power to bring peace to the region refuse to abandon their one-sided favoritism for Israel. The reasons are historical (the Holocaust as well as prosecution of Jews going back to Roman times) and strategic (western interests in oil and trade routes in the Suez Canal and the Red Sea). It is for this reason that Israel is the largest recepient of military and civilian monetary aid from the USA and Western Europe. The only way taht there is going to be peace there is when both Israelis and Palestinians are treated equally. The problem is that any aid that is given to Palestinians is tied to abandoning armed struggle against Israel. However, a similar demand is not made of Israel. Israel receives the aid, whether they pursue a militaristic policy or not. Israel is no longer a weak, isolated country in the beginnings of its formation. It is now a nuclear power with one of the largest, best trained military forces in the world. Yet western thinking still remains in the Israel of 1948. We need of think of the Israel of 2011, a very different country from what it was 63 years ago.

Übergeek 바둑이: The UN has passed many resolution regarding Israel... but the USA always blocks them. It is noted (according to wikipedia.org) ...."that the strategic relationship with the United States encourages Israel to pursue aggressive and expansionist policies and practices".

But I've heard that Israel pays well to US officials that help support their ways. It would be nice if the UN was the security between the two sides, yet that would have to mean the legality of any UN actions against either side has to be recognised by both sides.

... which is unlikely to happen.

Thousands of Palestinians marched towards Israel's borders in protest, demanding statehood for the Palestinian people. Israel retaliated by sending tanks and troops with live amunition. The unrest spilled into Egypt where riot police used tear gas and live amunition, wounding several protesters. At the end of the protests Israel had down 15 people and injured 355 people in several locations. This protest was inspired by recent pro-democracy protests in the Middle East, and it was done to mark the aniversary in which Palestinians lost their lands to the newly-formed state of Israel.

The question is, if the international community imposes sanction on Syria, and bombs Lybia, will they do the same to Israel? Or is there a double standard, saying that it is OK to shoot down Palestinians in Israel and Shia Moslems in Bahrain, but it is wrong to shoot down protesters in Syria and Lybia?

Nato has taken sides in the Lybian civil war, not to promote democracy but to ensure that the oil empire remains alive and healthy. Then they impose sanctions on Syria, ignore Bahrain, appease Egypt's military with money, and give Israel carte blanche to do as it wills. We live in a world of imperialist hypocrysy.

Übergeek 바둑이: Mmmmakes you think that some in the USA think the Tea Party will fix everything.......

"My wife has a headache." "It is Obama's fault!"."Here, watch a Tea Party video. That'll fix it!!"

(V):

> N' why include Obama??

Because he is to be blamed for EVERYTHING, him and his puppet master Soros. "My wife has a headache." "It is Obama's fault!"

EuroVision is on!! not to be confused with Intervision

Artful Dodger: Do those figures/interpretation include allowances for natural variations or are they just playing with figures again while focussing on the extreme figures.

N' why include Obama??

Artful Dodger: But they have in ... "Regional newspaper La Opinion said the suspect had received treatment at the psychiatric unit of a local hospital in February after being involved in previous violent incidents."

Seeing things again.. head chopping is an old tradition, yet the French found the guillotine a much more accurate and humane method.

Czuch: At the moment I think they are more occupied thought wise by what's happening in the Middle East. With the news of more deaths in Syria from open use of live ammunition..... With one Muslim faith (like the problems between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland) in power and killing protesters of another Muslim faith.. It's already led to tension in factions in neighbouring Lebanon.

N' yes... Many do resent the US.... quite frankly I'd be very surprised after what has been going on over the last half decade at least if they didn't. You don't just make 50 years of being used just vanish from millions of people.

Tuesday: sorry, but speaking for some men. or maybe just me... too much ain't enough.. how about a few more

Czuch: please... mentally challenged , or handicapped. But who defines the criteria? Besides me

Labron James said that a reporters question was 'retarded'...... well imagine the outrage.... what other expressions dont we use? Moronic? Stupid? Imbecile?

"That is a stupid question!" Really???? You cant insult all the stupid people with that can you???

Artful Dodger: Something to laugh about, sure.... but it seriously displays the ultimate in hypocrisy... I for one really need to see some outrage from the general Muslim population. But the fact remains, they generally resent the US more than they ever will murdering, porn addicted members of their own religion.

So what is to be said of a Country that has over 80% citizens believing in one religion, of that 80%+ just under half believe in that religions book being literal and that all other faiths are false and are going to hell?

Übergeek 바둑이: If I remember Turkey was to be a base for USA nuclear weapons, but as a concession to the USSR not pressing to base nukes in Cuba such deployment was scrapped. It is still an important country due to it's location.

As a member of NATO it has supported via troops and logistics NATO and UN missions.

Artful Dodger: Is that how your guy describes the Turkish war of independence resulting in the Sultan, etc being exiled?

Artful Dodger:

> Heyd's remarkably prescient insights

There is one thing that Heyd's analysis lacks, and which is central to the rise of radical Islamism in the Middle East. He completely fails to mention the Cold War, and how the western dominant powers allied themselves with radical islamists to destroy the Soviet Union.

The Cold War was characterized by a climate of fear and paranoia (nothing new there). Firstly, the October Revolution lead to the formation of the Soviet Union from the empire that had the largest land area at the time. Russia occupies 1/7th of the land mass of the world. Wester powers attempted to destroy the Soviet Union in the counter-revolutionary war of the 1920s, a conflict that left 13 million Russians dead. The alliance with the "Whites" failed and in spite of the little spoken genocide in Russia, western powers failed to stop communism in Europe and Asia.

WWII was characterized by intially appeasing Hitler in the hopes that he would attack the Soviet Union and destroy it. Until 1942 the USA was officially an ally, but unofficially doing bussiness and supplying Germany and Turkey with raw materials and financing in their war against the Soviet Union.

Then in 1949 China underwent a revolution that left 1/5 of the population of the world under communist rule. From 1917 to 1949 nearly 1/3 of the land area and 1/3 of the population of the world came under communist rule.

Thus 1949 becomes pivotal in western foreign policy. We have the birth of the CIA at that time, as we had McCarthyism, the American overthrow of democratically elected governments that leaned to the left, the support for fascist dictatorships, etc.

As the climate of fear increased, the dominant capitalist powers (USA, UK and France) made overtures towards their WW II enemies in the hopes that by presenting a unified front they could stop communist advance. It is at this point that western powers become allied to Germany and Turkey.

Turkey willingly acquiesced to western pressures to become secularized. Turkey's ruling elite longed to become economically integrated with western Europe in the hopes of cashing in on the big Western European markets.

However, the fall of Afghanistan into Soviet hands catalized fear both in Western powers and in islamic countries. Fear that other Islamic countries would fall under Soviet rule led the CIA and fundamentalist Moslems to form a dubious alliance. This was not unlike other dubious alliances with dictators, notorious drug traffickers and insurgent paramilitary anticommunist groups.

The USA, the UK, France, and other western powers channeled weapons, training, and money to fundamentalist Islamic groups that had as their objective to destabilize the communist countries. This is how the Soviets are driven out of Afghanistan. It is also how other conflicts arise. For example, conflicts in the Balkans, Nagorno-Karabakh (Adzerbaijan), Chechnya, and others.

Turkey, as one of the most populous Islamic countries in the world, saw itself drawn into Islamism. Mr. Heyd is right in saying that the seeds of Islamism had been there for a long time (as they had been in many other Islamic countries in the Middle East). Mr. Heyd does not acknowledge that the Cold War catalyzed western involvement in the Middle East, and that led to the birth of modern militant radical Islamism. Turkey's strategic location made it a target for western involvement.

As Marxism was undermined and lost its appeal, the ideological void to channel social discontent was lost, only to be replaced with radical Islam. If Marxism-Leninism channeled discontent into the class struggle, radical islamism could not do so and instead channeled discontent into an anti-Western anti-imperialist ideology. Turkey was not immune to that and the broad support for Iran among fundamentalist Turks is a symptom of that.

Today Turkey finds itself torn between its desire to join the EU; the desire to be a modern, free society; the desire to maintain its culture and traditions, including its Islamic roots; the desire to maintain a strong military presence; and the inability to deal with tribal discontent (Kurds) and the general rise of fundamentalist Islam.