Iamon lyme: Correction, I meant to say:

"...is far enough behind him for it to NOT be too great of an embarrassment..."

Artful Dodger: I wonder the same thing. I think he does believe that no one really builds up his own business, because he personally has been propped up and helped along the way. His choice of ideology, party affiliation, church, the city he chose to live in and what state he represented, what he wanted people to think of him when writing his books, etc etc ... even going back to when he first got a social securty card so he could apply for his first job... it shows a clear pattern of how he was able to get things done for himself.

Anyway, the whole truth will eventually come out, but not before his presidency is far enough behind him for it to be too great of an embarassment for the Democratic party. Like say, oh, maybe a hundred years from now?

Iamon lyme: Obama is such a liar. I wonder if he believes his own nonsense.

Artful Dodger: I managed to see most of the debate this time. Romney did better, Obama about the same as last time. I appreciated the fact that in this debate it didn't look as much like a free for all, with the moderator and Obama on one side and Romney on the other. The first two debates were a joke, but tonight's debate looked more like a real debate.

I've become so used to hearing the president lie that it doesn't bother me anymore... I was more interested in hearing what Romney had to say, and watching the expression on Obama's face as Romney was talking.

Iamon lyme: Obama was a jerk at the debates tonight. What a lying scum bag of a prez.

(V): [ Not around... through. Some of it relates to your certificate. Don't worry, everyone in the civilised world has one. It doesn't make you special!! ]

say what?

[ The Banks.. I can agree with that. ]

Me wasn't talking about "The Banks". You no know what me say?

[ Satan.... You mean our animal nature, or some strange man made construct...]

No, me no mean what you say me say, me mean say what me say me say. You no know what me say by the way? What you know me not say and what you say me say is no same as me say what me say. No, me not buy that... me say you know me not say same as you say me say... so there.

(V):" so everyone concerned feels nothing.."
*Um, what do you mean by this?

" especially considering the development of the nervous system,"
*Do you mean in the unborn child? Explain

" all the indications are that those that who are actually living as independent beings will feel more."
*explain

Iamon lyme: Not around... through. Some of it relates to your certificate.

Don't worry, everyone in the civilised world has one. It doesn't make you special!!

(V): Still trying to run end plays around what I say. Mindset and methodology... most revealing.

Iamon lyme: But you want control of the Children.

"And in spite of your clever *cough* attempt to make what I say appear to mean something else, the same group of people who attempt to gain access to other people's money are the ones most actively involved in disrupting other people homes and families."

The Banks.. I can agree with that. Nice to know you've seen the light somewhat

Iamon lyme: Satan.... You mean our animal nature, or some strange man made construct adopted from various inputs... ya know, Greek/Roman/Zoroastrian/etc?

"Do you need for me to show you where in the Bible it says that?"

Do I need to show you what I mean?

(V): [ Yes, they'd be comparing him to Mr Charlie Chaplin ]

Maybe, but I have no doubt that Social Service agencies would investigate to determine whether or not the children should become wards of the state or given to a younger couple.

In India they are being honored. But if they lived in the US, they would undoubtedly be criticised by the same people who try running end plays around parents to gain control of their children. How do I know this? Because I've seen it happen to real people, in real time, and not on some internet page. And in spite of your clever *cough* attempt to make what I say appear to mean something else, the same group of people who attempt to gain access to other people's money are the ones most actively involved in disrupting other people homes and families.

(V): [ Noooooo the oldest dad is non flesh!! ]

I was talking about the world's oldest (currently known) human dad. God can only be our father if we so choose. Jesus made that clear when he told some religious leaders that Satan was their father. Do you need for me to show you where in the Bible it says that?

Iamon lyme: Noooooo the oldest dad is non flesh!!

"Can you imagine what might happen if this family lived in the US (or in the UK) and the media got wind of this story?"

Yes, they'd be comparing him to Mr Charlie Chaplin. ... I think his last one was in his 90's .. or late 80's

(V): The worlds oldest dad is not made of wicker. He is a flesh and blood human being, and his wife and two sons are real people too. Can you imagine what might happen if this family lived in the US (or in the UK) and the media got wind of this story?

Artful Dodger: Really... so everyone concerned feels nothing.. especially considering the development of the nervous system, all the indications are that those that who are actually living as independent beings will feel more.

ie you are not making any sense.

(V): there are sad stories in every aspect of life. But the vast majority of abortion are only horror stories to the unborn.

Iamon lyme:That's Wicker man... get it right!!

Have you seen either of the two films?

Artful Dodger: You really think I'm gonna post real horror stories on this board? Of memory scars, things that'll make you wish you could take a 'pill' to wipe the last hour of what you've heard/read.

.... besides.. It'll just get deleted.

Artful Dodger: I've suddenly lost my appetite for pumpkin pie.

Iamon lyme: Obama supports letting babies who survive an abortion - die without any attempt at medical care.

Iamon lyme: I've seen that one before. It so cracks me up (no pun intended)

Artful Dodger: "And what if the scans showed a perfectly healthy baby girl?"

I've been discovered as being liberal, so there's really no point in pretending anymore. And so the answer to your point is a girl is not a woman. Doesn't matter whether she is a baby or a 12 year old girl, a girl is simply a girl... period. Girls are females, they are not women. We respect women, but this does not necessarily mean we respect females.

Only we liberals are able to understand this.

(V): Well played! My straw men salute your straw men.

(V): You'd have to explain to me how a woman's life could be ruined by giving birth. And then you'd have to clarify how that "ruined" life (of the mother). How does killing the unborn child do any "good" to the situation.

And what if the scans showed a perfectly healthy baby girl?

(V): [ At the moment you and Art are saying you want access to their children, under a law you want. Are you a liberal? ]

Okay (V), ya got me... I am really a liberal posing as a conservative and saying what I think a conservative would say. I managed to fool everyone else, but not you. What tipped you off?

Artful Dodger: If the life of the female carrying the baby is ruined through your law...

I don't see you or lemon really answering that. The baby seems to have more rights than the mother to be in your scenario.

If it was a incest rape, the baby was (via scans) shown to be massively deformed... you'd still insist she carries it to term?

This is real life.. not some fairy tale, where everyone lives happily ever after.

" There are thousands of loving homes waiting for a child should the woman not want to raise the child herself."

Guaranteed? No prospects of divorce?? ... some Hollywood star gonna decide they'll adopt yet another baby like AJ likes to do because she can pay off the parents to have what she wants!!

Well the sad alternative is that the unborn baby must die. The seems unjust to me. We have a responsibility to the most vulnerable among us.

Why don't all you men just put us Women in a factory.

Men would love that. I feel sick.

Artful Dodger: 9 long months of being reminded that the woman was raped, What about the women? hmm

Women can Not be forced to have a baby if they were raped, that is messed up and It would mess up the woman's head. My God!! Each day being reminded that the woman was brutally RAPED.

What about the women?

Oh we are just baby makers to you men??

Sad.

Artful Dodger: Nor me... We have programs full of bloopers, and even on news programs early in the morning things.. slip out. One American doing an early morning slot with his mate to advertise their play said a word that he did not know was a swear word in the UK... ... "It's a swear word?"

Iamon lyme: Exactly.

"In our country it has not been conservatives who work to run end plays around parents and attempt to gain access to their children. The people who are doing this is the same group of people who attempt to gain access to other peoples money.
In our country, we call them liberals."

At the moment you and Art are saying you want access to their children, under a law you want.

Are you a liberal?

(V): The crime happened in the real world. There was no rape. No rape, no baby. No baby, no abortion. And no one will be able to run an end play around the mother to make the girl do anything, one way or the other.

That's not to say it can't happen. In some places adults not related to a child are legally able to influence and make decisions for that child without a parents knowledge or permission. This means an adult outside the family (not related to the child) could legally have a right traditionally reserved only for the parents, and at the same time not be held responsible for the child or anything the child does. At the same time, and in spite of parental rights slowly eroding away, a parent nevertheless continues to be held fully responsible for their child.

In our country it has not been conservatives who work to run end plays around parents and attempt to gain access to their children. The people who are doing this is the same group of people who attempt to gain access to other peoples money.
In our country, we call them liberals.

(V): Well you know I like Bill. I've seen that clip many times and it doesn't shock or even surprise me he acted this way. Live shows are a tense business and taping a show with retakes etc cnd wear as well. But this clip, with the added back and forth dialogue is hysterical. I think even Bill himself would love this one.

(V): Of course she's a human being. That's what makes scenarios like this one so difficult. But so are situations difficult that involve separating parents from children, which happens in societies. Even children in difficult home situations have a strong bond toward the parents. The larger question has to do with what is right vrs what is clearly wrong. It's clearly wrong to kill an innocent human being. The most vulnerable deserve our protection. That fact is weighed against a woman carrying to term a child she does not want. The greater good is served by allowing the innocent unborn child to live to birth and beyond. There are thousands of loving homes waiting for a child should the woman not want to raise the child herself. We can't escape the fact that we have obligations and responsibilities to each other that sometimes require sacrifice of self interests (parents do this all the time!) for the good of the other.

Iamon lyme: Yes I've seen that in action in the current administration.

(V): Don't you mean to her parent's face? She is 12 years old.

Artful Dodger: A classic from his pre factor days!!

Artful Dodger: ... And the girl is not innocent or a human being?

Sometimes there is no 'good' answer.

Would you sign the order to make the girl have the baby against her will?

.. not from an office, but to her face.

Artful Dodger: I don't know about that, but Cow Ard is a term that aptly describes one of our political parties... the party that fears Islamic terrorism but is fearless in the face of critics who cluster bomb them with words... ouch, that really hurts us Mr Republican, why can't you be nice to us?

Iamon lyme: If Obama loses, America wins. If Obama wins, conservatives just wait it out and in a few years, when America has been ruined, we can say, "We told you so."

But the ONE can't lose in their eyes I think. They are blinded by MR COOL. Even as he turns the country into a cow turd.

Cow Turd is a political term I think.

Artful Dodger: [ Obama is done. He will lose big in Monday night's debate. ]

Whoa, not so fast... let's not get ahead of ourselves! Obama still has time to pull an October surprise.

For example, he could demand to see Romney's birth certificate. Romney should be ready to show that if he has any hope of holding the highest office in this land... and by "this land" I'm refering only to the US. (Sorry UK and Canada, this is our election, not yours) The presidency is a position of enormous power and responsibility, and can't be taken lightly by any Republican hoping to occupy that position. We can't allow some egghead to simply shmooze his way past the people in charge of making sure this election is on the up and up... we can't just let any smooth talking joker talk his way into power without anything to back up his story... can we?

And on a lighter note and for a HUGE laugh, there's this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z_GV6wMgBk&feature=fvsr

There is foul language toward the end. So listener beware.

He's going to lose the election BIG.

Obama is done. He will lose big in Monday night's debate.

Obamanesia – Obama Live Birth Abortion Induced Labor Abortions 2008
by Dgraphics2009

It is well known by Pro-Lifers but not by the general public. The MSM has done everything to keep it that way. We must help get the fact out that Barack Obama strenuously defended the indefensible at least three times.

The procedure is frequently called “Live birth abortion” but it is not really an abortion at all: The goal is simply to prematurely deliver a baby who dies during the birth process or soon afterward.”

http://newsninja2012.com/obamanesia-obama-live-birth-abortion-induced-labor-abortions-2008/

(V): And the consequence of abortion is a human being, innocent of any wrong doing, is killed.