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18. august 2011, 05:30:15
Nothingness 
I feel that re-installing a committee would help with any rulings. Such as drawn positions. if the committee can look at a situation and decide that "yes i see winning possibilities for white no you cannot be granted a draw" or no you cannot win in this situation draw" i can agree to this.

18. august 2011, 13:16:39
Chaos 
Emne: Draw rule, PLEASE REACT
Modifisert av Chaos (18. august 2011, 13:33:07)

Nothingness: we can ask for a draw rule to be implemented in the espionage rules, and I would be happy to do so as soon as there is a consensus what exactly we want to ask for.


DRAW RULE PROPOSAL: a draw can be asked for after 60 moves of non-capture. (seems a simple and clear rule to me). I would like to hear from you all what you think of this, so I can make the request to Fencer.


A committe only has authority to those who choose to be part of the group listening to this committee, which seems to me to be the people who would already be reasonable. A committee would also have to have a draw rule to apply. How often does the situation occur anyway? I've never had such situation.


18. august 2011, 13:33:30
Dark Prince 
Emne: Re: draw rule
Chaos:
The frequency of utilizing a rule is not a reasonable measure of whether the rule should exist. In chess, the 50 move rule is rarely used (as a percentage of games played), and the en passant rule is also rarely utilized.
The stalemate rule may come up even less frequently but is a factor that cannot be ignored in tactical considerations.
The 50-move draw rule would serve tactical purposes too in Espionage, i.e. "sh*t or get off the pot."

18. august 2011, 13:37:46
Chaos 
Emne: Re: draw rule
Modifisert av Chaos (18. august 2011, 14:07:55)

Dark Prince: I guess you misunderstood me. I actually made a proposal to request a draw rule so you could conclude I think it's a good thing to install one. (my point to Nothingness was I don't see the point in reinstalling a committee, I think it's best to go to Fencer if someone doesn't accept the draw, since he can inforce it, my other point to Nothingness was that I don't see other draw situations needing a rule, much less needing a committee).


My question to everyone; is 60 moves ok? Or do we want 50 moves like in chess?


In my opinion there shouldn't be a stalemate rule in espionage; there's no king, no piece with a 'forbidden' move, like in chess. So if you put yourself in a position where you can only be captured or walk into a bomb, you've lost. It's not forbidden in espionage to do either.


18. august 2011, 14:32:51
Dark Prince 
Emne: Re: stalemate
Chaos:
There already is a stalemate rule.
Stalemate: "A situation in which further action is blocked; a deadlock."
A player that cannot make a legal move on his or her turn loses.

18. august 2011, 14:34:37
Pedro Martínez 
Emne: Re: stalemate
Dark Prince: Where exactly at BK is that rule written or referred to?

18. august 2011, 14:40:28
Dark Prince 
Emne: Re: stalemate
Pedro Martínez: I copied the below from the rules at the bottom of the page for the 2 move variation of Espionage:

How to finish a game

The game is finished when one of the following conditions is fulfilled:

* A player captures opponent's Headquarters. This player wins the game.
* A player cannot make a legal move. This player loses the game.

18. august 2011, 14:46:49
Pedro Martínez 
Emne: Re: stalemate
Dark Prince: OK, I got confused by those quotation marks.

18. august 2011, 14:43:11
Chaos 
Emne: DRAW RULE

Dark Prince: ok, I thought you meant there should be a stalemate rule like in chess (draw). So we don't have to discuss stalemate.


Let's discuss the draw rule: what about my proposal?


18. august 2011, 14:56:20
Dark Prince 
Emne: Re: DRAW RULE
Chaos:
I agree that the existing stalemate rule is a good one.

Pedro Martínez:
That was just the definition for stalemate that I had put in quotes.

Chaos:
On the number of moves for a draw, I have made proposals indicating a smaller number of moves for the smaller board variations, but 60 moves is better than not having a rule. Will that be from the beginning of the game?

18. august 2011, 15:06:40
Chaos 
Emne: Re: DRAW RULE
Dark Prince: 60 moves of non-capture beginning at the start of the game, yes.

18. august 2011, 16:02:56
Sandoz 
Emne: Re: DRAW RULE
Chaos:
I agree with your proposal on the draw rule.

18. august 2011, 14:52:33
cookie monster 
Emne: Re: draw rule
Chaos:

I think 50 or 60 turns is fine.

It's never happened in one of my games, but that's only because a draw was agreed to in positions where it would have happened. It's easy to construct a position where it can happen.

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