... How does the US Christian Churches justify the change in policy?

Yes, I say policy, for if the idea that Mormonism is Satanism is not a solid 'biblical' statement from God. If it was, then Mormonism would still be as a solid law from God... SaTaNiSm.

But now, the Churches are split... some say yes, some not, some are undecided..

God must be so ... ... fickle!!

(V): Power , it's as simple as that.

A simple-minded answer to a simple-minded question.

(V): For someone who does not believe in God, you seem strangely interested in what He does or doesn't do. I've seen this with other atheists, and it doesn't make sense. When I was an atheist, it never occurred to me that I should be concerned about a God that doesn't exist. I wasn't worried about Christians, because for the most part I could see them practicing what they preached. I could be among them, and even argue with them, but I never perceived them as any kind of threat.

On the other hand, if I was among other atheists I quickly learned not to argue with any of them, because if I did it could get ugly and sometimes even unsafe.

It's a little disconcerting when people are promoting peace in a violent way, and I know that at any moment it could spill over to where I am standing. That was a never a problem when I was among Christians. So you can point and cry out "hypocrite" all you want, it doesn't matter to me. I learned a long time ago how hypocrites behave.

The Col: Not very Christian placing power on Earth over ya so called 'christian values' is it!!

.. It's not a new idea though.

Iamon lyme: Jules likes to bash Christians and so does the Col. And if one Christian does it, or one Christian organization does it, they lump them altogether. Such deep thinkers.

I mean.. it was interesting when at an RC school to hear from the monks and sisters who studied Religious history honesty, when it came to how the RC Church had badly behaved.

I think they wanted to warn us against 'people of the book'

August 23, 2012

ICE Agents File Suit Against Napolitano Over 'Amnesty' Program..

Previously a sexual harassment lawsuit was filed against Nappy, and now this:

FOX

Ten
federal immigration agents have filed suit against Homeland Security
Secretary Janet Napolitano claiming recent directives are forcing them
to break the law and ignore their duties when it comes to deporting
illegal immigrants.

The suit was filed Thursday in Texas federal court by Immigration and
Customs Enforcement officials. It challenges recent directives allowing
some illegal immigrants -- particularly non-felons and those who came
to the U.S. as children -- to stay and, in some cases, get work permits.

The suit, obtained by Fox News, says the agents are being forced to
"violate federal law." It says the new directive "unconstitutionally
usurps and encroaches upon the legislative powers of Congress." ICE
Director John Morton is also named as a defendant.

Kris Kobach, lead attorney on the case, equated the move to give
thousands of illegal immigrants a reprieve to the failed Fast and
Furious gun-walking operation. [More...]

I hope the outcome of this has a happy ending as this administration is definitely not going to be pleased.

(V): They figure Romney will forward their agenda when he gets elected anyway.McCain had a backbone and wouldn't be as likely to cave to their wishes in regards to "personhood" and the outlawing of abortion nationwide.

Sorry, brothers and sisters...

It was how they liked to be called.

Artful Dodger: Why don't you grow a pair, and speak directly to me if you are going to mention me in a comment?

The Col: Really... how? And isn't that a bit hypocritical... small government, yet you are now wanting to use government to ban abortions!! Even at a state level that's hypocritical.

"McCain had a backbone and wouldn't be as likely to cave to their wishes in regards to "personhood" and the outlawing of abortion nationwide."

And what if a visitor arrives from another country, gets raped by a US citizen, ends up in hospital for months and wants to abort, let alone their own women.

Governor Brewer Prevents Obama Turning 80,000 Illegals Into Arizona Welfare Recipients http://www.westernjournalism.com/governor-brewer-prevents-obama-turning-80000-illegals-into-arizona-welfare-recipients/ via @WestJournalism

(V): Abortion will be outlawed even in instances of rape or incest, it is in the Republican platform

The Col: Aren't Christians allowed to challenge dogma? I was taught I could!!

The Col: When is it ok to kill a baby in the womb?

The Col: I know.... but getting it through!!

I hope they are willing to cover the extra cost that the ER, doctors and hospitals will find themselves spending to help the sick women that result from driving abortions underground.

... But it just about the perceived Bible interpretation being right!! Can't waste semen, as it is all that is needed to create life.

egg, womb, women.. irrelevant.

Artful Dodger: Ending a pregnancy brought about by rape and incest is a good idea, no?

(V): Yes, the masturbation police will be combing the country

I'd like to know one simple straight forward answer to this question.

What gives anyone the right to tell a woman what she is to do with her body?

The Col: Then what. Back to no condoms??

Good way to increase the US death rates.

Btw.. isn't it true that if the Mitt wins and tries to get through legislation on banning abortion.. The line between state and church separation is crossed.

As, the Bible is being used to decide on government policy.

That is illegal from what I've read.

lol ... so say the resident pundits, with little historical perspective and eyes wide shut. Hey, you want a hear a broad but brief overview of the Bible? I didn't think so, but I'll tell you anyway.

Okay then... the history of mankind is one example after another of people behaving like masochists, hurting themselves and each other, and then blaming someone else... including a God they claim doesn't exist.

Sounds kind of grim, doesn't it. Not like the atheists, who paint themselves as mankinds true saviors, and who glorify themselves as being... being what? The universes greatest creation? All you have to do is tune in to almost any science program, and listen to the opposite of self loathing... it's enough to make a normal person want to puke.

(V): In a perfect world Republicans would like to outlaw birth control, or at least their "crazy uncle" extreme right would. That's basically how I look at the present two parties.Both have "crazy uncle" factions, the extremists of their respective parties out of the mainstream.In the current situation the right's "crazy uncle" has taken control of the Republican agenda

The Col: You're not ending a pregnancy. You are taking the life of a baby in the womb. So just to be clear, you agree that killing a baby in the womb is justified if the pregnancy resulted from rape or incest?

What other situation do you agree where killing the unborn baby in the womb is acceptable?

Artful Dodger: Do you agree a woman should be forced to carry to term a child from rape or incest?
I also agree in ending the pregnancy if the life of the mother is in danger

The Col: Like in the Film "V for Vendetta" ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2ty3b4EBMg

.... In that film such extremes ended up in a new civil war.

Wow! Did I call this one, or what? The republicans are calling for Akins to step down, and the Democrats want him to stay in the race. He's been defunded by the RNC, he gets no more money from them, so maybe the Dems could keep Akins campaign going if they throw some of their money to him. lol

What is left to milk out of this story? How long will it take Dems to get off the teat and find something else to cry about?

(V): Talk of civil war has already begun.It was on the news yesterday

The Col: All because of 'the bible' .. Jesus would be turning in his grave (yet again) if he had one!!

(V): Frankly, the political climate in the USA is toxic, and the population is the loser

"""Texas Democrats are calling for the resignation of a Republican elected county judge who warned this week that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected.

"It's really up to Judge (Tom) Head to do the right thing and resign and stop embarrassing Lubbock County," said Kenny Ketner, who became the county Democratic Party's chief Monday.""""

Wow... we had a crazy judge like that... or two or three, they are gone now thank God!!

If a UK rbased extreme right wing party got a MP and suggested banning abortion ... hang on.. never happen. It cost too much in laundry bills through the other MP's wetting themselves in laughter.

The Magna Carta forbids it..

The Col: Yep... only the 1% benefit.

(V): The Republicans have become a faith based party,and I don't think they have a choice anymore when you consider the electorate patterns

The Col: It wouldn't matter if it wasn't for them wanting to turn scripture into law... If the talk was less extreme and more moderate they'd get more voters and be a people party rather than an 'us and them' party.

The parts of the Magna Carta still in law..



1. FIRST, We have granted to God, and by this our present Charter have confirmed, for Us and our Heirs for ever, that the Church of England shall be free, and shall have all her whole Rights and Liberties inviolable. We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties under-written, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever.

9. THE City of London shall have all the old Liberties and Customs which it hath been used to have. Moreover We will and grant, that all other Cities, Boroughs, Towns, and the Barons of the Five Ports, as with all other Ports, shall have all their Liberties and free Customs.

29. NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.[43]

(V): You think they got into bed with the fundamentalist Christian right expecting to have to give nothing back in exchange for their vote?

But, then again.. acts are as such referring to the legal fiction that present on a Birth Certificate, a legal entity for identification in the world of commerce.

It is not your name as stated under the Common Laws of England.

The Col: That would breaking the US constitution. They might as well bring back slavery, it's just as bad.

The Col: You haven't answered my original question. You only asked a question in return. We'll get to your questions after you've answered mine. It seems that your position is that abortion is wrong unless it's for the life of the mother or in the case of rape and incest. Is that your position? You oppose abortion in all other instances?

This attitude is further reflected in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, originally authored by Jefferson and championed by Madison, and guaranteeing that no one may be compelled to finance any religion or denomination.

... no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.[26]


A ban on Abortion seems to be against US first amendment.

The Col: Thanks for toxicity, but the masterbation and twigs n berries comments are getting old.

(V): I love the USA ,I travel there often my best friend is a Pennsylvania Republican , but I really don't see the collision course of the two parties ending well

The Col: I've got relatives in Florida.. nice people.

If attitudes don't change and the media and interested parties stop playing games for profit.

It's happened before and destroyed empires in the process.

Iamon lyme: I hope you do it, better than you spell it

(V): Both FOX and MSNBC egg on their sides.They should be more aware of the rising temp

The Col: Mind your own obsession, Col. If this is the kind of talk that coats yer throat, do it in pms with someone who wants to hear it. But hey, whatever bloats yer goat... say whatever ya want, it's still a free country.

The Col: On the subject of Fetus survival I read...

"At 23 weeks there is a 25% chance of survival, and a 50% chance at 24 weeks, and the numbers increase from there. A baby born this early, however, has only a 12% chance of intact survival, which means that the baby will develop without any problems in the future, and this number also increases each week. At 28 weeks there is a much bigger chance of survival for the baby. I had a baby at 22 weeks and was told that there was nothing they could do for her, and she passed away two hours later. I was told that if she had been born at 23 weeks I would have had the option to try to do everything they could for her to live."

This is a woman speaking btw...

"There have been a couple of 20-21 weeker that have been born and survived, but most hospitals have policies these days which all but eliminate the possibility of life sustaining interventions prior to 23-25 weeks (usually 23 weeks)."

It seems the Doctors say life cannot exist outside the womb until 23 weeks with a reasonable chance of survival.

The baby then, can be independently alive. But ONLY with a great deal of support.

Iamon lyme: When it comes to the topic of abortion, the liberals don't like to answer direct questions. They like to control the argument and they like to ask specific questions which frame the argument and keeps it away from them having to answer anything directly. Pregnancy due to rape, incest, and where the life of the mother is in danger constitute a very lower percentage rate of all given reasons for abortions. They focus on these three reasons but rarely address such casual reasons as the woman simply doesn't want to look fat.