The Usurper: Corporations aren't people


You are good with your conspiracy stuff, but have a lot to learn about economics..... Corporations have all the same rights and responsibilities of an individual, economics 101

The Usurper: Look.... the government subsidizes the oil industry, the government gets most of its money from wealthy people, and they certainly get none from poor people, these subsidies make it possible for $2 gas instead of $8 without them... this has nothing to do with price gouging (maybe there is gouging, but that doesnt change the fact that subsidies keep gas prices lower)

So in effect, it is the wealthy americans paying to keep gas prices lower for the poor people....something I would think you would advocate for not against?

The Usurper: give everyone a chance to compete in a truly free market


Does that include allowing companies to send jobs overseas, if it helped them compete? Because i dont think most liberals like a market that free

The Usurper: Yes, I would be for cutting out all handouts, but it would mean a lot higher gas prices, and it would hurt the poor the most.... You seem to advocate for the poor, so I dont understand how you could favor something like that?

The Usurper: The top 10% wealthiest Americans pay over 90% of the taxes in the US, so when the government subsidizes the oil companies, the majority of that money comes from the wealthy!

Without those subsidies, gas prices would be at $8 instead of $2... so I would think you would be advocating to let the rich keep paying the oil companies for lower gas costs for the poor?

The Usurper: Didnt we just go over this recently?

The Usurper: Where do you think the money comes from for the 'hand outs' to the oil companies?

(V): You would think that public transport would cost you nothing with all the taxes you already pay to get it in the first place?

(V): Yeah traveling by bus, thats convenient, and comfy, or going to run errands by bus or subway.... sounds like a load of fun to me... you can keep it, and I dont see Userper moving there anytime soon either

The Usurper: Nobody in the UK goes hungry????

They better have a lot of public transport... who except the wealthy can afford to drive????

At least over here, the wealthy subsidizes the gas to keep prices lower for the poor... over there, the poor cant afford to drive!

(V): so you pay about a $1.50 more per gallon in just taxes than we pay for it in total

Looks like about $3.49 per gallon in the UK....(thats US dollars)

(V): Its about a quarter of the total cost.... what is your tax rate then?

(V): As for petrol taxes.. obviously not enough tax.



Well it varies by state, but in California for example, its about 55 cents per gallon.....

Artful Dodger: Give it up Art.... how you got sucked in this far, really????

The Usurper: Im pretty sure the defense budget is due to be cut as well, although we are pretty much trading Iraq for Afghanistan and people dont realize, that even without either of those, it still costs a lot of money to keep a military in ready... doing military training in alabama or having troops in Iraq, its not as much a difference in cost as most people realize. Its still soldiers and feeding them and arming them....

i wrote this before reading you most recent post before this one

The Usurper: From what I remember seeing, a lot of the stimulus package goes straight to welfare and food stamps and programs like that?

I was personally happy when it first got proposed, huge spending on infrastucture I could support, high speed cable and a new road out front and the jobs it would create to make it happen... it surprised me a bit because that really is more of a trickle down formula than trickle up, but it seems like instead, i can fly to LA and take a really fast train to vegas... no high speed internet for me i guess?

So... we give the poor people so much money that their increased spending stimulates the economy to the point that someone has the ability to hire those poor people to work at the gas station or the local grocery store and then these people can stop collecting and start contibuting, and then a lot of the baby boomers die, so this once poor person gets a proimotion and makes room for another poor on welfare to get a job too and soon enough, humming economy and fewer poor and more money to pay off the debt, ahhh can anyone say kumbayah????

The Usurper: Okay, im with you then, for the most part.... but you even said yourself, either we give them money for 2 dollar gas or we dont give them money for 8 dollar gas, either way they make the same money?

But it really does help the poor, by keeping gas prices lower..... and lower gas prices helps the whole economy as well, cheaper to ship goods results in lower prices for everything, more spending power, economy humming along?


As far a stimulating the economy from below... well i am as skeptical of that as you are of trickle down... the good news is we will find out soon enough, as the big experiment of change is already in motion....


also with this increased spending to the low income at record levels, how do we decrease the deficit too?

Bernice: Hitler is/was the greatest controller of minds in the world.


...and he gave a great speech as well

The Usurper: Sure, no hand outs to anyone then? Fine with me.. my point is that you say you want to help the poor and you say you want to stop handouts to the big evil oil companies, yet doing one hurts the other

Or... you want to stop the hand outs to oil, make gas prices rise, and then give money to the poor to buy the gas????

What then for me in the middle class? (well really, I am not even in the middle class according to most liberals) I dont get a hand out and I am now paying huge gas prices, that makes me poorer, until i am poor enough to get money for gas too, and soon enough you have more people getting money than there are people to take it from... then what???? How has that helped the economy then? Once you have cut the big boy down to size, and given enough money away to make everyone middle class (thats the goal right?) then what? how do you sustain a system with everyone in a middle class?

(V): Since the evolution of the internet, it's much harder for people to hide things from the public.


Much harder to hide things except the biggest government conspiracy cover up ever!

(V): we have plenty of taxes already included in our gas prices...

The Usurper: Give the rich man 6 bucks, so he will charge us 2 instead of 8? lol

You just dont get it do you? The 6 bucks comes from all the rich people you hate, so that the poor people only have to pay 2 bucks for gas!!!!!

Yes, the oiul company hardly loses, but have it your way and we all pay the 8 bucks at the pump, both the rich man and the poor man

(V): And in the long term the plans by your present admin is to reduce this debt.



I cant wait to see that feat of magic.... with record spending greater than the new deal, not sure how he plans on reducing the debt at the same time? It will have to be huge tax increases, I guess? Thats sure to stimulate the economy.....

Wall St. isnt partisan, and you can see what they think about Bams plans

The Usurper: Ah, so handouts you are not opposed to



I dont mind some hand outs when they trickle down, and actually help the economy... I dont think hand outs to the poor really stimulate the economy

but you guys advocate against helping big oil companies, which would have the effect of costing poor people more than the rich

The Usurper: corporations are the biggest recipients of government handouts (and therefore evade true market competition)



Without corporate hand outs our price for gas here would be $8 a gallon instead of the $2 it is right now.... what the "tax the rich" liberals dont understand is that when the government pays them to keep our gas prices down, most of the money does come from the rich, and the poor, who dont pay any taxes, dont end up paying anything to get lower oil prices...

BUT, if instead, the government didnt give these hand outs, and we let the market be free, gas prices would be $8 for everyone, including the poor people!

Talking for a true free market, then complaining when some company sends jobs to china???? Or is it only a free market with protection that you want?????

Liberals.... say one thing, mean another... want one thing ask for another....

Trickle up economics??? really???

"Who among us would ask our children for a loan, so we could spend money we do not have, on things we do not need?"



That is exactly what the libs in Congress are doing right now!!!

The Usurper:


Not worth your time time to defend the fact that you hate our government, yet still support its newly found support for socialism?

The Usurper: LOL... its not worth your time to prove your comments against me???

The Usurper: No thanks. Not worth the time.

hey everyone... the government sucks, now lets give them more of our money and rely on them even more than we do....

The Usurper: I could provide a list of things I've directly asked him, or points I've made directly to him, that he ignored, while at the same time trying to trivialize my position by distorting it



sure go ahead... be my guest....

The Usurper: I already dont like much our governments involvement in our lives, and i would like to see less, not more in our future, having said that, I dont believe a lick of what is said about the 9/11 conspiracy, and if I was like you, I would want them out of my life even more that I already do

The Usurper: All I am saying is that you believe the US government is complicit in 9/11 including congress and Obama now and everyone else... but you also support a liberal agenda that includes socializing everything (socializing means making the government more responsible for everything)

Dont you see any kind of contradiction here?

Someone help me understand the logic of liberals like Usurper who have such disdain for the integrity of our government yet support us giving them more of our money and support more and more government into the control of our lives????

(V): not sure why you would want to entrust more and more power and money to a government that has the potential to abuse its power????

Long live the people???? Why not entrust the people more then???

The Usurper: some reference please....

The Usurper: Look, if your only objective here is to promote some sort of conspiracy agenda, then you are better of moving to another country....

The Usurper: well, i have to admit that i was writing that last post at the same time you were, and it is astounding to me... maybe that is the difference we share, you see a government separate from the people, and I am naive enough to still see a government of the people?

The Usurper: Problem is, america is not a government, but a people, and the people of america have no interest in ruling the world, and it is only an absurd concept made up by hate mongers like this guy who perpetuate this kind of theory...

anastasia: so, would you be defending , so far, or not?

The Usurper: and more to the point.... he is acting exactly as a liberal, even if you voted for him or not!

The Usurper: Thats right, you voted for mickey mouse instead....

The Usurper: What our government is doing is neither Liberalism nor Conservatism,

You have to be kidding us???? Obama was the most liberal senator.... this is exactly what liberals have been itching to do, and Obama was your man....Trying to distance yourself from him and his policies, especially so soon after the inauguration, that just doesnt cut it!

Tuesday: and when we morphed from gen chat they said it wouldnt last in here, but we are one of the most active boards on here!

The Usurper: You sound like an Indian who has seen the northern lights for the first time....

The Usurper: the Bush administration lied to get us into war with Iraq.

As far as I know it was congress that voted us into Iraq? A president doesnt have the authority to act without congress approval?

The Usurper: We also knew he had not replenished his supply.

That simply is not true... yhes there were inspections, but he also denied access to many places as well...

My theory is that Saddam was more affraid of his enemies knowing that he did not have any WMD, than he was of the UN thinking he might..... hahahah to bad for him, he was right, except he underestimated the USA, if anything it was a good deterent for any other UN resolution breakers out there facing serious consequences...

The Usurper: Osama bin Laden did not mastermind or carry out 9/11. The U.S. government did.


A little thing called a confession maybe????