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 Backgammon

Backgammon and variants.

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28. Martie 2007, 03:29:16
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re: Scoring of timeouts
jryden: I'm guessing that what you mean by the current state is equivalent to the worst-case scenario, except in a few unusual cases that I've just thought of (e.g. White has borne off 10 checkers and has 5 on his ace point, while Black has 14 on his ace point and 1 on his 19-point: a backgammon is not possible, but one might say the game is in a backgammonish state).

But the game in question was not in a backgammonish state, nor was a backgammon possible, yet I was awarded 3 points. Therefore BK behaves differently than the way you and I believed it behaved.

28. Martie 2007, 02:02:13
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Scoring of timeouts
Is it well understood how many points are awarded for a timeout in a cube match? In this game, I was trailing 4-2 in a 5-point match when my opponent disappeared. A backgammon is no longer possible on the board; in fact, if the game were played out, every possible sequence of rolls and moves would result in a gammon. I thus expected that when my opponent timed out I would receive 2 points for the gammon. Instead I received 3 points and won the match 5-4. I feel somewhat guilty for being credited with an impossible backgammon. Not very guilty, as I expect my opponent would also have timed out in the next game, but somewhat guilty.

I had thought that a timeout would be scored the same way as a resignation -- i.e. that the player who timed out would lose the maximum number of points possible from the final position, at the current value of the cube. But I can't find this written anywhere. Has anyone else had experience with this? Is this the intended result, or a bug?

2. Decembrie 2006, 04:45:31
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re: An announcement of a new BG game
joshi tm: This game doesn't appeal to me. The rules appear overly complicated, arbitrary, and inelegant, and I doubt that the strategy will be rich enough to compensate. Even the tagline doesn't fit: this game provides more, not less, incentive to hit. Has the game even been playtested?

Apart from my other criticisms, the rules need a thorough editing. Several points are unclear, and there seems to be at lesst one contradiction.

22. Noiembrie 2006, 23:32:31
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re: Doncha hate messages like this?
jryden:
It's true that arpa lost to a stronger player, but this is not relevant for the Sonneborn-Berger calculation. What matters is that alanback defeated a stronger player.

arpa's and redsales's S-Bs were computed incorrectly. The correct result is:


Section 1 BKR 1 2 3 4 5 Points S-B (?) Order
1 mrbugs001 2040 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 5.
2 alanback 2004 1 1 0 1 3.0 5.0 1.
3 arpa 1961 1 0 1 1 3.0 4.0 2.
4 Ebru 1840 1 1 0 0 2.0 3.0 3.
5 redsales 1732 1 0 0 1 2.0 2.0 4.

17. Iulie 2006, 04:21:03
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re:
Thad: Yes, it is. It's too bad BrainKing doesn't use the Glicko rating system -- we could get RDs into the mix.

Perhaps, rather than looking at BKRs directly, we should look at percentile ranks.

17. Iulie 2006, 04:00:26
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re:
Ouch. I didn't mean to post that all in bold. If I weren't a pawn I would fix that.

17. Iulie 2006, 03:59:38
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re:
Thad, grenv: I thought of that, and I see two problems.

First, if we're attempting to answer alanback's original question, I think we have to have some requirement of experience in all five games. Otherwise our newly crowned Champion-Of-All-Five-Positive-Gammon-Games will be, depending on whether we count provisional BKR in individual games, either 02i (who has provisional BKRs in three games and is unrated in the other two) or sergey82 (who has a very high established BKR in Backgammon but has not played the other four games). Would you declare someone the winner of a pentathlon if he had only participated in one or three of the five events?

Second (and perhaps more important), it is meaningless to directly compare a BKR from one game to a BKR from another game. Even though we all started with BKRs of 1300, the rating distributions tend to drift upward over time, and this does not necessarily happen at the same rate for all games. As of a few minutes ago, the median ratings on the lists of established BKR were 2044 for Backgammon, 1714 for Nackgammon, 1703 for Backgammon Race, 1677 for Crowded Backgammon, and 2029 for Hyper Backgammon. This suggests, for example, that a BKR of 1700 in Crowded Backgammon is better than a BKR of 2000 in Backgammon. Any comparison of BKR weighted by number of games played will be biased in favor of those who play mostly Backgammon and Hyper Backgammon.

I claim that linear combinations of BKRs can be meaningfully compared only if the weighting is the same for each player.

17. Iulie 2006, 01:46:23
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re: Leaving on top?
Chicago Bulls: No, not zero. The default BRK is 1300.

Yes, of course it's a question of definitions. This whole thread has essentially been about how to define overall strength in these five games. I've proposed one plausible quantitative definition. It's obviously not perfect; it inherits all the flaws of the BKR system, and it may have additional ones. I'm not convinced it's the best definition, but I haven't thought of one which is clearly better.

17. Iulie 2006, 00:01:54
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re: Leaving on top?
SafariGal: But what if no one ranked #1 in one game has sufficiently strong credentials in the others to be considered the best overall player? As it turns out, of the five top-ranked players, only arpa has established BKRs in all five games. Do you really consider 54th, 4th, 10th, 1st, and 24th better than 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 5th, and 4th?

One reasonable measure of overall strength might be average BKR across the five games. I doubt you'll find anyone who can top alanback's 2160.

18. Aprilie 2006, 22:34:08
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re: Backgammon Race Ratings and Rankings
JMD & NIRVANA: Yes, a "new person" indeed.

10. Februarie 2006, 09:58:51
Peón Libre 
Subiectul: Re: Double as opening roll
Hrqls: A game of backgammon begins with each player rolling one die. If the two dice are equal, they roll again; otherwise the player who rolled the higher number moves first, using those two dice. Thus the game can never begin with doubles.

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