BrainKing - Panouri de discuţii (Tournaments)

Subiectul: Re: rabbitoid's idea

Fencer: Agreed, but the point is that if the lower-rated player has the advantage in a tournament game, this creates an incentive for players to intentionally lose non-tournament games in order to improve their chances in the tournament.

3. Februarie 2006, 07:22:36

Subiectul: Re: rabbitoid's idea

KotDB: Generally said, when you play in an elimination tournament, you should play to win, not to draw. Yes, it requires a more risky way of playing but that's just an attribute of this system.

3. Februarie 2006, 07:10:00

Thad

Subiectul: Re: rabbitoid's idea

KotDB: But that would be harder to keep track of, harder to verify, & harder to code. ;-)

3. Februarie 2006, 00:50:56

Peón Libre

Subiectul: Re: rabbitoid's idea

Fencer: In light of Andre Faria's comment, I think it would be better to use the value from the start of the game. Otherwise there may be a strong incentive for players to lose games.

2. Februarie 2006, 22:54:41

Subiectul: Re: rabbitoid's idea

Thad: The BKR value at the moment of accepting the draw is always used.

2. Februarie 2006, 22:48:17

Thad

Subiectul: rabbitoid's idea

Just thinking here. If the lower seated player is to advance in the case of a draw, what happens if Al & Bob are playing a tournament match and Al is higher at the start, but then Al loses a regular game to Carl and his rating goes down to below what Bob's is. Al's was higher at the start of the match, but Bob's was higher at the end. So who advances?

Sorry, I don't have a good solution to this, just thought it should be brought up.

2. Februarie 2006, 19:29:50

Subiectul: Backgammon

Modificat de Eriisa (2. Februarie 2006, 19:30:26)

Single Elimination Backgammon #2

6 players still needed - Tourney starts 1 day 19 hours from now.

*added* but I will start it earlier when it fills up.

2. Februarie 2006, 18:18:43

Andre Faria

Very fast 4 players elimination tournament here

2. Februarie 2006, 13:42:51

Doris

Subiectul: CONGRATULATIONS

Coudy

for winning the tournament Backgammon & Hyper 2100+ First 8 (Hyper Backgammon)

2. Februarie 2006, 13:29:12

Andre Faria

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

Modificat de Andre Faria (2. Februarie 2006, 15:20:03)

furbster: If it would be in a final, I could even lose a game on purpose, just to put my BKR lower, so I could win that tournament... :(

It seems to be that this is not a solution... Imagine a prize tourney being dependent of player's BKR...

2. Februarie 2006, 13:09:39

Lambik

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

furbster: Do not let them play against eachother in the first round. The player who beats the strongest player in the first round wins.

2. Februarie 2006, 13:06:48

furbster

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

rabbitoid: but what happens if the ratings are so close or even the same eg, 1501 : 1502

2. Februarie 2006, 12:53:33

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

rabbitoid: Yes, that's a good idea.

2. Februarie 2006, 12:37:50

Lambik

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

I played last month such a tournament and indeed if a low rated player draws a higher rated player, then the latter on losts. In the first rounds the rating differences were big, but the semi-final was close. (I was knocked out in the quarter final)

2. Februarie 2006, 12:34:22

Retep

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

Thad: This isn't a problem that only occurs at single elimination unless you play 2 game matches in a normal tournament. By the way, if a game is too unfair (which Chess is certainly not) I wouldn't play it ;-)

2. Februarie 2006, 12:14:36

Thad

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

rabbitoid: That still leaves a problem in games line Pente where P1 enjoys a strong advantage. For average players, this doesn't really matter, but just as in Chess where strong play on both sides results in a draw, strong play by both sides will produce a win for P1.

2. Februarie 2006, 12:09:39

rabbitoid

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

Fencer: instead of a "no draw" rule, which impossible to impose in chess, why not fix that in case of a draw the lower rated player stays?

2. Februarie 2006, 11:22:45

Jirik

2. Februarie 2006, 09:12:39

J.T. single elim.I

Peón Libre

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

Luke Skywalker:
I would expect only one, or possibly two if a single-elimination tournament can be defined with two games between each pair of opponents.

But I've observed that the number of slots they tell you to need often has little or nothing to do with the number of slots you actually need. Caveat emptor.

2. Februarie 2006, 09:11:37

Good Luck :)FLR

Subiectul: single elimination and draws

i believe it will be unwise to make single elimination tourney for games boards(chess or checkers) because the possibilities to have draws are high especially on the final rounds unless is used the bkr :)

2. Februarie 2006, 09:09:41

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

Luke Skywalker: Game slots are not used for single elimination tournaments. Because you'll never play more than 1 game at the same moment.

2. Februarie 2006, 09:09:01

Subiectul: Re: Single elimination

Lambik: I might change it.

2. Februarie 2006, 09:00:52

Luke Skywalker

Subiectul: single elimination

how many game slots will pawns and knights need for this kind of tournament?

2. Februarie 2006, 08:50:00

Lambik

Subiectul: Single elimination

Modificat de Lambik (2. Februarie 2006, 08:50:20)

Fencer: With single elimination, it is not possible to "draw" a game. But how about games that could not be won? For example a chess game with not enough material (K+N+N against K for example) or what about the fifty moves rule? Some time ago I had a game with three times the same position, but no automatic draw. Is this doable?

1. Februarie 2006, 21:24:23

Antje

The Sunshine Club has lots of new tournaments, and some Ponds, for anyone interested!

http://brainking.com/en/ShowFellowship?fid=41

1. Februarie 2006, 19:16:46

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

Fencer: oh cool!

I didn't realize that they will start as filled! That is awesome!!!!

1. Februarie 2006, 19:08:45

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

Luke Skywalker: Yes, this is a known issue. A side effect of new features :-)

1. Februarie 2006, 17:35:46

Subiectul: Single elimination backgammon

Modificat de Eriisa (1. Februarie 2006, 17:37:45)

I have 2 tourneys set up. Lets try them out!

Single Elimination Backgammon
(set up for 4 players each....)
# Backgammon
# Nackgammon
# Crowded Backgammon
# Hyper Backgammon

Single Elimination Backgammon #2
16 players needed

1. Februarie 2006, 16:46:09

furbster

Subiectul: Re: single elimination

Luke Skywalker: very good point, in fact i've just been looking for it, adn i decided it'd been deleted since my lunchbreak.

1. Februarie 2006, 16:44:26

Luke Skywalker

Subiectul: single elimination

this tourney
http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=13412&trnst=0
has already started, but not enough people have singed up for some of the games. When the tourn was still in the "signed" state, it stated a deadline of 29 days until those would be deleted.
2 problems:
- the deadline is not stated now
- the tourn is not listed in the "signed" category anymore, so people probably won't find it and won't know that they still can sign up for it.

1. Februarie 2006, 16:39:37

furbster

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=13452&trnst=0

1. Februarie 2006, 14:13:39

Who wants a free membership?

1. Februarie 2006, 11:06:37

plaintiger

Subiectul: Re:

Fencer: aha! you clever devil!

(and excellent coder, i might add! ;)

1. Februarie 2006, 10:44:25

Subiectul: Re:

plaintiger: It is currently disabled because I need to test it first. But I'll enable it soon (by uncommenting one line in the source code

1. Februarie 2006, 10:31:01

plaintiger

question: how does one *start* a tournament with an entry fee? i don't see any options for it in the tournament setup pages. thanks...

1. Februarie 2006, 10:20:04

Retep

Subiectul: Re: help 8.6.2) Prize tournaments with an entry fee

Fencer: Oh, then I misunderstood this ;) By the way, it's nice to see the tournaments marked after joining.

1. Februarie 2006, 10:13:28

Subiectul: Re: help 8.6.2) Prize tournaments with an entry fee

Retep: It was just an example. Nobody says the prize must be always only 25%. The tournament I've just created has 40% prize for the winner.

1. Februarie 2006, 09:47:39

Doesn't matter.

1. Februarie 2006, 09:45:29

Retep

Subiectul: Re: help 8.6.2) Prize tournaments with an entry fee

Modificat de Retep (1. Februarie 2006, 09:45:44)

I agree with arpa, that's very "unpleasant"! This:

# The tournament will not be started until the first prize reaches at least a double of the entry fee. Players are informed about this status on the tournament page. #

means a prize tournament can't be started with less than 8 players.

31. Ianuarie 2006, 23:17:18

arpa

Subiectul: Re: help 8.6.2) Prize tournaments with an entry fee

Modificat de arpa (31. Ianuarie 2006, 23:18:09)

Fencer: 1) tomorrow? i don't know this! wonderful!

2) oops ... i change that word in "unpleasant" ok?

31. Ianuarie 2006, 23:04:59

Subiectul: Re: help 8.6.2) Prize tournaments with an entry fee

arpa: Why don't you wait for tomorrow? The S-B is already fixed, it just needs to be uploaded.
Btw, I don't like the word "stealing".

31. Ianuarie 2006, 23:01:34

arpa

Subiectul: help 8.6.2) Prize tournaments with an entry fee

see Help page

8.6.2) Prize tournaments with an entry fee

instead of .... The tournament will not be started until the first prize reaches at least a double of the entry fee.

8 players it's the same.

same page ....The tournament is defined with these prizes: 25% to the winner, 10% to the second place and 5% to the third place....

I think 60% "loss" is an stealing ... 20% are reasonable (50% 20% 10%).

NECESSARY REWIEW S-B CALCULATION (today are incorrect)!!! see(for example):

http://senseis.xmp.net/?SonnebornBerger

31. Ianuarie 2006, 22:27:09

Subiectul: Re: help 8.6.2) Prize tournaments with an entry fee

arpa: Huh?

31. Ianuarie 2006, 10:29:07

Nirvana

Subiectul: Join in!

Cørηųcøpίa Agaίη

30. Ianuarie 2006, 06:12:58

ScarletRose

Subiectul: Congrats to imsoaddicted for being #1

at Dark Battleboats in the tourney Scarlets Springtime Follies".

30. Ianuarie 2006, 03:14:06

Czuch

Subiectul: Do you like spiders?

Sider line 4 first 8 to sign, two games each, under 2000 rating.

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=13388&tri=83887&trnst=0

29. Ianuarie 2006, 15:10:44

Subiectul: Re: Moving tournaments aloong

Walter Montego: I am not working on it.

But I plan to do so.

29. Ianuarie 2006, 14:38:51

Walter Montego

Subiectul: Re: Moving tournaments aloong

Fencer: This will be a very good improvement. I'm glad you're working on it. Good luck.

29. Ianuarie 2006, 12:51:23

Congrats to CameronsDad for winning Speed Gammon #2's Backgammon Race!

29. Ianuarie 2006, 12:21:02