Czuch: "Yes! and the culprits have names as well..... Nancy and Harry and Bam and the whole liberal collectivism movement"

I can understand your aversion to collectivism. The example of the former U.S.S.R. is both terrible & terrifying. But there is also the danger we face from the opposite extreme, i.e., the rise of fascism.

Some recognize the dangers of communism, but not those of fascism. Some the dangers of fascism but not communism. But they both meet in the middle of the political spectrum, as I stated previously. They both strip liberties and are totalitarian regimes.

Czuch: "it is entirely possible to have a problem that isnt created by my government as a rouse to take away my liberty"

Sure it is, and I'm sure that happens. But think about what that means. If your government will use an unforseen accident as an excuse to take your liberties, then the threshold has already been crossed. It will also, if necessary, create "accidents" to take your liberty away.

Again, I don't think you deny that SOME governments throughout history have acted this way. There is Hitler's "Reichstag fire," started by the Nazis & blamed on the Communists, and used as an excuse to shut down civil liberties in Germany.

The bias seems to be that, while other nations might do these things, the U.S. government wouldn't. I have called this thinking "naive," not as an insult, but because it is contrary to the evidence. I have also called it "understandable," not to be condescending, but to express the fact that I realize this idea is very hard to comes to grips with for many of us.

I have deleted some post, some were mine, none had anything to do with politics

All post must now be approved until AD decides to change it back.
This board is for political discussion and debate.
IT IS NOT A BOARD TO CARRY OUT FEUDS
This has been going on for a couple of days with multiple people, If you cannot discuss or debate a topic without getting personal, I'd suggest you take it off your favorite list and not visit here
Also, not every statement that people make are personal jabs, if you're that over sensitive to remarks (from other cultures) maybe this isn't the board for you.
Remember that people from all over the world visit here and what is rude in one place may not be in another or vice a versa and if we went pc to everybody's sensitivities, all post would probably have to be deleted

I'll be back 

Tuesday: I got a link off anglestar profile & it takes you any where.I was at wallmart on it today its a great link & alot of place's take pay pal.I'll look for it there Thanks:)))

Tuesday: LMAO really LOL:)))

Tuesday: that was deep....think I will meditate on that one tonight,LMAO!!!

The Usurper: Well they can't have read the Bible if they say that.

In Genesis, it is very clear that we are animated with the breath of life from God, that we have a soul and spirit. It's also very clear that God created everything and as such El is in everything. It is also evident very clearly that this is a wise creation from Proverbs.

Yeah, I know the RCC in it's early years messed up by formalising the Bible, not so much in the formalising, but in the destruction of scriptures not included from the various churches around. King James then made matters worse.

Though they didn't do a complete job. Some old scriptures have been found and some records and works by various Christian thinkers still exist. Unfortunately alot was destroyed in order to maintain control.

But not all. eheheheheheheh

Czuch: I see you're bright & bushy-tailed as ever this morning, Czuchers. :o)

Would like to chat, gotta run. Please continue & I'll come back & learn at the feet of the Master. lol

The Usurper: I'm not familiar with the details of the Port Arthur Massacre so have no opinion whether it constitutes an example of the Problem-Reaction-Solution model.



LMAO.... come on surp... go out on a limb on this one eh? If it walks like a duck, must be a duck right? Why bother with messy details anyway???? Go ahead and say it, and dont forget the part where Bush masterminded it as well

The Usurper: How does Katrina fit into you theory models?

Point is... it is entirely possible to have a problem that isnt created by my government as a rouse to take away my liberty...

The Usurper: The Problem-Reaction-Solution model postulates that we DO have unscrupulous government actors, even in Western democracies, who would like to reduce our freedoms and, if possible, move us into a dictatorship where their needs would be met at the expense of liberty for the people.

The best method for this, however, would be through subterfuge...i.e., get the people to choose less freedom in exchange for more security. This is where Problem-Reaction-Solution comes in as an effective means.




Yes! and the culprits have names as well..... Nancy and Harry and Bam and the whole liberal collectivism movement

Bernice:

Artful Dodger:hahahahaha nite nite :)

Artful Dodger: Now I won't be able to sleep. lol

The Usurper: I'll have more worthless bits of wisdom tomorrow.  ;)

Now I lay my little head
As I go off into my bed
But in the morning will I dread
Reading here all that's been said?

Hope not.  It's a new day.  Start fresh. 

Bwild:  Happy belated here too.  And BTW, there's some pi for you on the GC board.  Everyone can have some pi  ;)

Bwild: I see you had a birthday happy belated :)

Artful Dodger:noy very apeeling

Artful Dodger: That sounds like a loaded question. But I do find it convincing, after impartial & diligent scrutiny....so I will now incorporate it into my overall argument. lol

Just one question for the group:  Did you find my story Dick's Tator Ship and "appealing" story?  

The Usurper:

The Usurper:I knew a potato farmer named Richard.  Well I only knew about him.  He was a ruthless boss and controled every aspect of the lives of those that worked for me.

He shipped his potato crop all over the world.  And thus the name for a ruthless leader began.  The ships were known as Dick's Tater Ships.  After a while, the words blended together.  Today, we call all ruthless leaders, after Richard the potato farming giant.

Artful Dodger: In your case, the judge was worried you might have something up your sleeve. :o)

Once the people have lost both psychological & material means of self-defense, open dictatorship becomes possible. And that is the ultimate goal: a one-world dictatorship, under whatever name you care to give it. With technology this has suddenly become a real possibility.

Yeah, I guess I AM a conspiracy theorist. :o)

The Usurper:I worked at a job where they violated our right to bare arms.  I complained and even filed a lawsuit, but the judge said the firm I worked for had a right to a dress code.  So I had to wear the long sleeve shirts as part of my uniform. 

Bernice: According to our political philosophy, rights are God-given and cannot be abridged, except in individual cases where some have trampled the rights of others, i.e., through criminal acts.

I'm not familiar with the details of the Port Arthur Massacre so have no opinion whether it constitutes an example of the Problem-Reaction-Solution model.

But your post makes my point in the following way: the "thank god that we do not have the right to bear arms," is an example of how the people can be persuaded to demand the removal of fundamental rights, for security's sake. This can apply not only to the bearing of arms, but of other rights also.

The Usurper:"So...ummm...could I have it back now?"

The Usurper: thank god we do not have the right to bear arms......very strict rules come in after the Port Arthur Massacre on the 28th April 1996.

we have to get a permit from police to even own a gun and they are very strict as to whom they give them to.

Bernice: I would do a jig but that would embarrass both of us. lol Thanks :o)

Artful Dodger: So...ummm...could I have it back now?

Artful Dodger: ha ha ha lol (double laugh)

Some examples:

1. We have the right to peaceful assembly and to redress grievances. But if instigators to violence are planted in a peaceful demonstration, the result is a crackdown on all public protests, their cordoning off into "free speech zones," etc. And the public in general may accept this because, after all, we can't have violence in our streets.

2. We have the right to keep & bear arms. But enough seemingly random violence in our cities & schools, etc., and pretty soon the people themselves (enough to make a difference) are crying for the removal of this basic right...an armed citizenry to withstand tyranny.

3. The Oklahoma City bombing is a good specific example. What was one major result from it? That was Clinton's Anti-Terrorism Bill, which removed some of our basic freedoms and eased restrictions on the military's involvement in domestic law enforcement.

4. The War on Drugs has been used to curtail our freedoms in many & various ways. This fits the model when it is realized that the CIA has been heavily involved in smuggling drugs into our country.

5. 9/11 is a textbook example. The process runs thus: a) create the Problem b) which forces a Reaction among the people c) then provide the Solution.

And again, it is in seeing Who Benefits from these insidious processes that we recognize the perpetrators. As a general rule, the result of the process is, less rights for the people, more power for the government....i.e., the centralization of authority.

****if you really are troubled by the post, don't respond - take it to the moderator in private instead.****

the person that is complaining hasn't got the intestinal fortitude to do that.

he would rather go behind AD's back.

Bernice:


I had a discussion with a guy once and he said that he wanted to give me a piece of his mind.

So I ripped out his frontal lobe. 

The Usurper: and for once LOL.....I have to agree with you :)

The Usurper:  We need Jack Bauer.  lol

The Problem-Reaction-Solution model postulates that we DO have unscrupulous government actors, even in Western democracies, who would like to reduce our freedoms and, if possible, move us into a dictatorship where their needs would be met at the expense of liberty for the people.

The best method for this, however, would be through subterfuge...i.e., get the people to choose less freedom in exchange for more security. This is where Problem-Reaction-Solution comes in as an effective means.

In a fullblown dictatorship, Problem-Reaction-Solution is strictly unnecessary. The government just muscles the people and does what it wants. Communist Russia & Nazi Germany are two good examples from opposite political poles....where each merges into its opposite on the circular political spectrum.

But for Western democracies, because they have overcome the darker forms of tyranny in the past, and where Freedom is ingrained among the people as a Birthright, brute force is not a sufficient means for unscrupulous government actors to impose their will, at least not until or unless the power residing in the people is dramatically reduced.

Thus, we have Problem-Reaction-Solution as an effective tool of manipulation.

The Usurper:I try.  :)

This is the simple formula for controlling the Mass Mind. Learn this and history, even as it happens, will take on a whole new perspective for you.

One other question to always ask is: Who Benefits?