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 Jungle

Discuss about Jungle game or find new opponents.


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8. November 2004, 05:17:24
coan.net 
Like rod said, it is a known bug. The ratings did go to the correct person, just the names are switched in the message at the end of the game. (games that end with a draw)

8. November 2004, 05:12:04
rod03801 
I believe it is a known bug with Draw messages...

8. November 2004, 05:03:04
LightningBolt 
Subject: Re: draws
In reality in our game the higher player lost points.
Here was the message after the game:

" LightningBolt: old BKR = 1679, new BKR = 1679 (0)
Nothingness: old BKR = 1738, new BKR = 1731 (-7)

Game type: Jungle "

However what is strange is it is me who was 1738 and it was Nothingness who was 1679.

The same thing happened for my previous Jungle game with Nothingness(an other draw...).

Someone could explain why?

7. November 2004, 16:53:15
rod03801 
LOL!!!!!

7. November 2004, 16:51:09
bumble 
Subject: Re: i looked at more options
You could try borrowing one of the bombs from espionage.

7. November 2004, 16:02:59
LightningBolt 
Subject: Re: i looked at more options
" if i move my leopard down the middle he can still take it with his tiger, although it would let my tiger in im now down a leopard and now he has major material and my dog cant win vs anything in the red squares ".
Well anyway same if it was a problem I could same bring me too my leopard down the middle. To me this position is a dead draw.
In this position

7. November 2004, 07:27:09
ughaibu 
It's interesting, maybe some other players have ideas. In "normal" Chinese chess there exists a similar problem that a player can only win with specific combinations of pieces, if they dont memorise the combinations it's impossible to efficiently conduct the middlegame. Due to this inherrent drawishness and the facility to be able to agree draws, it seems excessive to also allow one side to force a draw in an otherwise lost position. Regarding the Tromyr-Redsales game mentioned earlier, (I wrote "black" when I meant "white"), of course one cant criticise Redsales for playing within the rules but I would certainly like to see this rule given a serious review.
A further point concerning shogi, in shogi the players can not agree a draw. A threefold repetition (same player to move, same position on the board and same pieces in hand) voluntarily undertaken by both sides ie not with continuous checks by one side, is considered a 'no contest' and the game is replayed with reversed colours. The only valid draws are jishogi, though effectively, at the professional level, these too amount to no contest.

7. November 2004, 07:06:04
Nothingness 
Subject: i looked at more options
i check what you were saying since getting htem pieces to the squares you mentioned would take so long he could counter by moving cat out and replacing it with the leopard thus stoppingmy dog, if i move my leopard down the middle he can still take it with his tiger, although it would let my tiger in im now down a leopard and now he has major material and my dog cant win vs anything in the red squares.

7. November 2004, 07:03:18
ughaibu 
I played a game in which I had available a winning plan, it was clear that it couldn't be stopped but would take around 40 moves to play out, I dont think jungle is a game suited to long time limits (or auto-vacation).

7. November 2004, 06:58:58
Nothingness 
Subject: to complicted
the method of this attack would take forever. adn could be countered indefinitely and wouldnt be worth the trouble unless it was a tournament. im sure he could stop me with out a mouse im pretty much helpless vs his elephantmy lion is rendered useless and must hold his ground. as does his elephant must stay or loss additional material thus giving me a win!

7. November 2004, 06:55:56
ughaibu 
I see what you mean. I guess if you transfer your leopard to the central path before moving your dog to attack his wolf, the two fronted attack would be insufficient?

7. November 2004, 06:46:06
Nothingness 
Subject: it wouldnt work
i saw that he had a clear path down the center and my dog was the strongest defense vs his dog. so i had to defend with the dog if i attacked with my dog his dog had undisturbed path to my lair. i missed a move by my tiger to jump water 3-4 moves earier. this got his tiger mobile. his dog was just to fast..

7. November 2004, 06:37:43
ughaibu 
Subject: Nothingness
I'm surprised that you didn't carry on against LightningBolt, it looks to me as if you could win by bringing your dog to F9, your wolf to D6 and then your leopard to B7.

7. November 2004, 04:12:39
Tromyr 
maybe it depends not only on the rating but also on the number of games which the person has played?

7. November 2004, 03:58:35
Nothingness 
Subject: draws
i was playing 2 differnt people recently and both were draws but when i got done the one game there were no points change in our ratings but hte other draw i again lost nothing but my opp lost 7 pts to his his rating both players were rated higher... but the player who was rated hihgest lost nothing.

7. November 2004, 01:24:10
Nothingness 
Subject: challenge offered....
i pretty much have figured out that you can force a draw everygame. there should be something put in that prevents this glitch! the game was a lot of fun until i figured it out. if anyine can beat me now tht i have figured it out all challenges welcome. i ahd to sacrifice a few games to figure it out though.

5. November 2004, 11:48:20
Tromyr 
okay.
but now i want to discuss, if it is possibel to change the rules. because i think it's to easy to force a draw.

5. November 2004, 11:36:34
redsales 
Tromyr: I've had a draw forced on me by CaoZ. I didn't like it but I accept the rules as they are and agreed to the draw regardless. Besides, logically, you can see that even if Fecner DID change the rules, it would be unfair to apply them to existing games.

5. November 2004, 11:16:22
Tromyr 
Now the repetition is allowed because the administrator has decided my game with redsales as a draw.

5. November 2004, 11:04:31
ughaibu 
That position looks to me like a win for black if the repetition is disallowed.

5. November 2004, 11:02:08
temo 
Modified by temo (5. November 2004, 11:19:03)
Well, I think it´s a big problem, I played such a game and finally I agree with draw...I couldn´t solve this position.
Btw, what do you think? Which player have bigger chances to winn?...the fist one with tiger and elephant, or second one with lion and mouse?

5. November 2004, 10:56:15
Tromyr 
hm,
now my game with redsales is drawn by the administrator(!). thats also a possibility ;)

5. November 2004, 10:45:23
Tromyr 
i've read the shogi-rules and i go along with ughaibus proposal.
Otherwise it is possibile to write in the rules that's not a good manner to threat with continuos check.

5. November 2004, 10:43:32
ughaibu 
Subject: Gruhni
Such draws exist here in chess, but the rules of chess have no bearing on other games. The closest games to jungle are Chinese and Korean "chesses" I think repetition is illegal in both.

5. November 2004, 10:39:00
Gruhni 
I think there should be a rule in brainking, that a game is draw automatically if the same position is repeated three times. Not only in this game. But it is hard to program that...
I think, you cannot compare this situation in Jungle with a check in chess, because the attacked piece is not forced to move away. What about a rule, that you have to make an other move or move an other piece, if you had moved out of a "Check" two times in the same way? :-)

5. November 2004, 10:11:51
ughaibu 
For example if the same position is going to be forced by the same move by the player, that move becomes impossible. If you're going to have shogi at BrainKing this is an important point as repeating position three times with continuous checks loses for the checking player in shogi.

5. November 2004, 09:47:08
Fencer 
ughaibu: How would you actually make it? I mean how to detect such situation and resolve it?

5. November 2004, 09:43:43
ughaibu 
I think in such a situation the higher ranked piece should be prohibited from continuous attack. As is the case with continuous attack by white on the edge in tablut, the spirit of "draw" is contravened by one player forcing the other's moves.

5. November 2004, 09:23:53
Tromyr 
Subject: the draw-problem
what do you think about situations, where your opponent offers you a draw, because he threats time after time with "checkmate" and so there is no progress.
i speak about this situation:
http://brainking.com/game/ShowGame?g=494533

4. November 2004, 07:54:13
redsales 
that's the big problem with this game. You have to play it with the right opponent.

4. November 2004, 06:54:33
Nothingness 
Subject: forced draw
i think that i have figured a way to force a draw just about every game...by essentially trading off lions and tigers eaarly on. once their gone the passageways become immposible to negotiate.

17. October 2004, 01:55:47
Chimera 
ROTFL

17. October 2004, 00:23:09
coan.net 
Why are you laughing!!!! I'm the one getting tickled by a puppy!

17. October 2004, 00:21:00
WhisperzQ 
Dies in a fit of laughter

16. October 2004, 23:28:38
CardinalFlight 
The dog looks like a little domesticated dog, while the wolf looks wild and much larger and stronger and fiercer than the dog. Maybe the dog is just so cute that the wolf doesnt want to eat him, then the dog tickles the wolf until he can't take it anymore and the wolf runs away.

15. October 2004, 22:48:30
pauloaguia 
not with that picture :-)

15. October 2004, 22:26:27
Nothingness 
Subject: wolf vs dog
maybe the dog is a pitt bull...?

15. October 2004, 16:02:28
coan.net 
You have the dog beating the wolf in this version of the game which tells me that the wolf in this game is neither "BIG" or "BAD". :-)

15. October 2004, 11:28:56
bumble 
No wombat. :)

15. October 2004, 09:00:00
Fencer 
BBW: No wolf? :-)

15. October 2004, 02:16:29
coan.net 
I haven't played much, but I think the Lion & Tiger are the best 2 animals.

14. October 2004, 23:55:09
pauloaguia 
Subject: Re: tiger for mouse
I think that depends on what animal you relly more on.
I think the lion is the best piece in the whole board. At least it's been the most usefull in my games so far.

14. October 2004, 16:40:35
CaoZ 
Subject: Re: tiger for mouse
I think the tiger its more usefull than the rat :)

14. October 2004, 16:15:11
Nothingness 
Subject: tiger for mouse
is it a wise trade to take a mouse while sacrificing your tiger.. id say yes..

6. October 2004, 01:41:15
ruby2 
thanks arnie

6. October 2004, 01:29:02
ArnieTxx 
Subject: Re:
A strong defending animal, in its own trap, can jump out to capture a weaker invader.

5. October 2004, 23:53:22
ruby2 
so there is no point in leaving a defending animal in the trap? It will get killed before it can strike?

5. October 2004, 18:00:06
CaoZ 
Subject: Re: question about the traps
Modified by CaoZ (5. October 2004, 18:54:26)
Yes your animal kill the opponet animal if you animal attacks first and stronger.no matters the oppponents animal is on the trap.

5. October 2004, 17:57:36
txaggie 
Subject: Re: question about the traps
No, my scenario was an opponent animal in an opponent trap, with my stronger animal on its way to the opponent den. What happens when my stronger animal steps into the already occupied trap?

5. October 2004, 17:47:32
CaoZ 
Subject: Re: question about the traps
yes if an oponnent animal its in your trap you can eat him with any animal dossent matter if is weaker that the animal in the trap.

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