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21. September 2010, 20:49:57
cookie monster 
Subject: Re: New tournament
SL-GentleKiller:

:)

21. September 2010, 20:42:10
Tian-Xian 
I am not playing in a tournie but would have to ask if I can join another, as it prob still on the go

I play at least once daily but not on a Sunday

Is that fast enough?

21. September 2010, 19:56:06
SL-Bosse 
Subject: Re: New tournament
Mikong: I'm normally active at least twice a day. Morning and evening CET.

21. September 2010, 18:46:04
SL-GentleKiller 
Subject: Re: New tournament
I have sad news for you, guys. I'll also play in that tournament. Beware my gentleness!!

21. September 2010, 17:53:13
Mikong 
Subject: Re: New tournament
SL-Bosse:
Nothingness:
Ok, then let's record the players move time like this:

Players:

♦ Nothingness
♦ Mikong (At least 1 move a day/ more on weekends)
♦ SL-Bosse

♦ Chaos (If we cannot start within 2 weeks :))

So, please, write your move time possibilities. It will also help others to see that the tournament won't last for ever

21. September 2010, 17:21:15
Nothingness 
Subject: Re: New tournament
Mikong: imwith the understanding that you prefer to have a tourney in the small espionage with the volcanoes? if so im in as many other will be. but lets make sure we get the fast players.

21. September 2010, 06:42:35
SL-Bosse 
Subject: Re: New tournament
Mikong: I'm and in, if it is a fast tournament. Not one move each week.

20. September 2010, 18:30:08
Mikong 
Subject: Re: New tournament
Nothingness: Thanks :) Should we start the recruiting and planning the tournament now?

Players:

♦ Nothingness
♦ Mikong
♦ Chaos (If we cannot start within 2 weeks :))

19. September 2010, 21:01:41
Nothingness 
Subject: Re: New tournament
Mikong: Welcome to espionage! just to let you know i recently completed a game with sandoz that lasted 321 moves. Since we both moved Quickly it didnt last that long but a match like that could last years. Tourneys aren't suggested for those variants unless Fischer clock is used. Open is the preference here.

19. September 2010, 20:18:22
Chaos 
Subject: Re: New tournament

Mikong: I'm in, and want to help recruiting players, only I'm leaving for 2 weeks tomorrow. I can help after that.


In the mean time, maybe other league players can make Mikong feel welcome in the league, and maybe suggest players for the tournament?


see you all in a few weeks!!!


19. September 2010, 17:58:08
Mikong 
Subject: Re: New tournament
Chaos:

Hmm.. Good idea about inviting "fast" players or those who don't play too slow. Then, let's start asking guys who'd like to participate. I can guarantee to play at least 1 or 2 moves a day :)

19. September 2010, 12:58:21
Chaos 
Subject: Re: New tournament

Mikong: Hi Mikong, welcome on the espionage bord, great to see you here :) What kind of tournament did you have in mind? Small espionage isn't popular to all espionage fans because of the length of the game. It's much slower than small fast or open fast espionage. Though I do believe there are some who especially like the variant, I think Nothingness and Altermann do and the Alchemist and I believe Sandoz still likes the variant. I'd be willing to join as well.


Also, we haven't had a serieus small espionage competition for some time which would be a good arguement for doing it. The biggest problem would be not just the length of the game, but the length of the entire tournament. We've been discussing the issues on that matter on this board. Maybe a single elimination would take some of the problems and inviting only those who don't play extremely slow.


What are your thoughts on the matter?


19. September 2010, 08:11:28
Mikong 
Subject: New tournament
Hi there, i'm also an espianage game fan.

Let's create new tournament to the game - Small Espionage.

18. September 2010, 23:48:33
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Nothingness: Great, sent you a new invite, base and bombs on row 1 or 10. Bombs at A,B,I,J and base at E.

18. September 2010, 23:43:44
Nothingness 
Subject: Re:
SL-Mark: ok thats fine.

18. September 2010, 23:27:02
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Nothingness: Okay, then I will tell you the location of my bombs and base before you setup. You can tell me the location of all your 1s on move 1.

Shall we delete this game and start a new one?

18. September 2010, 23:06:29
Nothingness 
it makes a huge difference if you know what pieces are where prior to setup especially with bombs and bases as apposed to moveable pieces. There is a big advantage to the person revealing the bombs. the game totally changes. the same is in chess i guess with an adjournment. so one person dont have too much advantage.

18. September 2010, 18:49:56
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Chaos:

18. September 2010, 18:48:53
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
SL-Mark: who ever told you I'm friendly?

18. September 2010, 18:32:06
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Nothingness: Game I sent you an invite for is random colour and uncounted, meaning it is neither BKR rated, nor does the game count on your stats.

The order is:
1. Negotiation concluded
2. Game is setup.
3. White moves and tells
4. Black moves and tells.

18. September 2010, 18:27:14
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Chaos: I said I would put my 2s on the table. I didn't necessarily mean all of them... three 2s for two recons would have been more friendly

18. September 2010, 18:15:09
cookie monster 
Subject: Re:
Chaos: Same as our game. I revealed 15 assorted pieces to see five 1s.

18. September 2010, 17:48:19
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
cookie monster: You're already playing? What swap did you make?

18. September 2010, 17:18:34
cookie monster 
Mark and I set the pieces up then revealed them.

18. September 2010, 17:07:50
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
Nothingness: it would be difficult to tell before set up because in that case the opponent would make a set up based on that, giving their information back, leading to a change in set up from the 1st person etc. I'd say you make the set up and give the information before the 1st move.

18. September 2010, 16:47:12
Nothingness 
im under the assumption that we know this prior to set up? or do get told where they will be after setup?

18. September 2010, 16:42:49
Nothingness 
we should also make these unrated games as well.

18. September 2010, 16:02:12
Chaos 
Subject: Re:

SL-Mark: it was your own proposal


Anyway, we each know 7 pieces, right? :)


I only have 1 problem: I don't think I can play two such games at the same time because of the tracking. If it's okay with you I'll play Eric first. Shouldn't take that long given the way and frequency of our play.


18. September 2010, 15:15:54
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Chaos: Mmmmm, finding it difficult to evaluate this information exchange, moreso in the light of the previous exchange.

Against my better judgement I will agree :)
So we have:
I show 2s, 4s and base
You show 1s and two recons.

Suddenly my 3s and 5s looked very exposed :(

18. September 2010, 13:43:15
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
SL-Mark: In addition I'll show 2 of my recons for your four 2s.

18. September 2010, 12:25:22
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Nothingness: "it would be impossible to win a game with someone having prior knowledge of your bombs for 5 1s being revealed."

Interesting that you believe this. Indeed cookie monster has offered a lot more than this just for the five 1s, and I'm still not sure if this was a good deal! Eliminate the pieces, assume equal information exchange in the process (and remove from the equation) and we are left with the three revealed 1s, an unrevealed recon (forgot about this one previously) against one revealed recon. Which gives (3x1 - 2) = 1 against 1. Have assumed an unrevealed recon = 2 and a revealed recon = 1.

But if you still think it would be impossible for me to win if I share the location of my mines (and base) in exchange for the knowledge of your five 1s, I will send you an invite on this basis. Note, you will have some very difficult decisions to make, e.g. whether you will exchange a 2 for a recon!

18. September 2010, 06:45:39
Nothingness 
perhaps a mini elimination tourney with this. of course extensive note taking would have to take place and a constant reminder from opp of the location of the pieces.

18. September 2010, 06:44:04
Nothingness 
it would be impossible to win a game with someone having prior knowledge of your bombs for 5 1s being revealed.

18. September 2010, 01:53:01
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
cookie monster: Sorry Eric, wasn't trying to hussle another 1, just didn't think this through. I have found some additional value that should balance this difference, making your original offer acceptable and fair (doubt I would throw in an extra 1), though I just know I won't like your set up :) I will send you an invite.

18. September 2010, 00:56:41
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Chaos: My precious 4s and base!
I would accept this offer.
Anything else you would care to exchange in this game? I would be interested in learning the location of some of your recons. I put my 2s on the table.

18. September 2010, 00:50:44
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Modified by SL-Mark (18. September 2010, 00:51:24)
cookie monster: Interesting! Swap them all out (useful pieces, i.e. those that can move) we are left with my remaining three revealed 1s against your revealed recon. So I have given you a value of 3 in exchange for 2! Throw in another 1 please and game on! I won't need the location of your base or mines :)

18. September 2010, 00:49:12
cookie monster 
Subject: Re:
Sounds like a plan.

18. September 2010, 00:38:40
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
cookie monster: as said, I'd happily take a shot  Only problem is you can't reveal them without me revealing my recons. Or I'd have to make an enormous amount of notes. I'm willing to try though. After my holidays an invite will be waiting :)

18. September 2010, 00:32:53
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
Modified by Chaos (18. September 2010, 13:27:47)

SL-Mark: I don't care about the mines anymore. In my early days I've walked into one of Sandoz' (when he was still hageroff) mines with a 5 after deducting this piece couldn't be backed up by a sab or 5. Eversince I know how to deal with unmovable pieces.As for your offer, I'm more interested in your 4s. How about your 4s and your base?


18. September 2010, 00:29:11
cookie monster 
I'll reveal two 1s, two 2s, a 3, a 4, a 5, a Recon, two Sabs all 4 bombs and my base . . . 15 out of 30. :)

Now that I have said it, I need someone to play. :)

18. September 2010, 00:27:46
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
SL-Mark: hmmm, still I think even Eric's recons can't fly through 1s so I'd happily take a shot if he shows me half his army.

18. September 2010, 00:24:21
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Chaos: And have you thought about my earlier offer of both 5s for all your 1s? I will even throw in a mine or two if you wish :)

18. September 2010, 00:21:32
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Chaos: He was replying to my previous post, hence I am assuming he meant half his recons!
If it was half his pieces, I still don't think it would make much difference against Eric!

18. September 2010, 00:14:29
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
SL-Mark: Oh, I thought he wanted to show half of all his pieces if in return for the 1s. I thought it was a brave thing to do indeed.

18. September 2010, 00:08:11
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Chaos: I think Cookie Monster is offering you 2.5 recons for five 1s.

2 recons for five 1s well I would go for the side of disclosing recons.
3 recons for five 1s, here I would show you my five 1s!

17. September 2010, 23:55:27
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
Modified by SL-Mark (17. September 2010, 23:56:38)
Nothingness: I did say it was a simple weighting. Infact, from Cookie Monsters post, an undisclosed recon would have a value of 2, which seems about right in this case. Still thinking about my reply to this one.

On your offer, not only would I give you the location of my four bombs (mines), but also the location of my base in order to know the whereabouts of your five 1s

My value system puts no value on these pieces!

17. September 2010, 23:50:41
Chaos 
Subject: Re:
cookie monster: Even if you know all my 1s it would be hard to get around them! I think I could stop/get rid of your recons using my 1s, some 2s and some of my recons. I'd go for the deal!

17. September 2010, 23:37:14
Nothingness 
your giving a preset value based upon your own piece value system. I consider a Bombs location more valuable, than a 1.

would you give 4 bomb locations for all 5 ones? i certainly wouldnt.

17. September 2010, 01:27:45
cookie monster 
Subject: Re:
SL-Mark:

Mark- I think once you show me five 1s I can show half of my pieces and still reach a complete information situation with my recons . . .they simply have to avoid your 1s.

17. September 2010, 00:31:21
SL-Mark 
Subject: Re:
cookie monster: I think we have to assume that all recons are present, and negotiations take place before the board is set up.

What would you share with me for the knowledge of my five 1s? Perhaps your five recons? Or maybe four 1s for four recons?

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