Czuch: No, it's not just about today, most people actually (well the ones I know) are looking into the future and how things maybe. ... If governments were not then they'd be no action on Global Warming, no concern. No long term think tanks looking at what might be.

The changes Obama is trying to implement are needed for the future prosperity of America and to reduce the running costs of your country and hopefully therefore lead to a decrease in your countries national debt.

(V): . I plan to here for at least another 30-50 years... what about you?

The point about us being dead, was that most people dont really care about after we are dead, its all about today...

I listen to the news and they say something like, it hasnt been this warm since 2002, or we havent had unemployment like this since 2005..etc... like its some earth shattering thing!


let me know when its five straight years of decline, not sure where I am going with this, early here still, I just want people to be able to see a bigger picture than just how am I affected today or the past 4 years, and say that we have a great foundation that has worked for 200 years, dont panic now and make changes that are good for the short term but have no real future....

Czuch: Then maybe the way of things will have changed again and the USA economy will be on steady ground again. And no, we will all not be dead by then, some in this lifetime will get to see the results.... I plan to here for at least another 30-50 years... what about you?

Artful Dodger: So that's why both McCain and Obama both agreed that human caused climate change is real. So both right and left agree.

... No clubbing.

(V): I am not saying that Obamas ideas arent god ones or that they wont work or are not doable, I just am not sure they are any type of permanent solutions to our economy... the government pumping money into the infrastructure will be good for everyone, and it will provide temporary jobs, but what happens when the road or the bridge is built, and the high speed cable is buried, then what do the construction workers do? What do the restaurants and the other hospitality people do after construction wrokers are gone? Its just not a long term sustainable plan, but who cares right??? we will all be dead by then, and someone else can figure out what to do then, right?

anastasia:
so now global warming doesn't exsist??

Well, yes the globe has been warming recently, if thats what you mean, but I think these days the term global warming is a generic term for permanent climate change.... and no I dont believe it is permanent nor is it not reversible.

It was a couple of years ago already when Gore told us that in 3 years it will be too late, that we had to reverse it now or it would be too late... I cant wait for the end of the 3 years to see what they will say then, when we have done almost nothing....

Tell me, how does Al Gore know for certain that a planet millions of years old has 3 years left before the tipping point of no return???

Our globe has been warming since the last ice age. and before that it was cooling, and before it cooled it was warming.. hehehehe its what this planet does, its nature, are you really suggesting that we change nature?

Yes, man does have an influence and an impact on our environment, and yes, I am all for conservation and all the carbon foot print blah blah blah, my personal carbon foot print is a lot smaller than Gores, I can guarantee you that!

You might be one who hates the big bad greedy oil companies... well believe me, there are some pretty greedy people out there ready to make billions on this global warming hype too! Dont be naive enough to think its all just conscientious people pushing this hype, there is a lot of money to be made by many pushing this thing, and its not all about saving the planet to them either.

BTW, last i heard, the ice glaciers were growing again?

Jim Dandy: Repairing the infrastructure is a wise move in this place in time.It's not going to solve the financial mess,but it's a logical start point towards the big picture.


I agree, its a good plan, I think federal government should be responsible for infrastructure types of projects, and I have no problem paying for them, and they do provide jobs,at least on a short term basis, IE 10 years or so.

anastasia: Strategically the Republicans may be wise to sit this one out.Obama may point the economy in the right direction,but the benefits aren't sometimes felt for a number of years.Obama may end up doing the heavy lifting,but the Republicans may reap the rewards.

Jim Dandy: I agree,one has to start somewhere,thats for sure.
The mess our country is in right now,I don;t think either Obama OR McCain could ahve come into office and solved everything they said they wanted to solve...even if our country WAS in good shape,no person can come into office and do every single thing they say they will or that they really want to..it just isn't logical

Czuch: The globe has gone through many climate changes in its long history, but now we hear people complain they havent seen it so hot in their lifetimes as some sort of definitive irreversible global warming hysteria.
so now global warming doesn't exsist??

Czuch: Repairing the infrastructure is a wise move in this place in time.It's not going to solve the financial mess,but it's a logical start point towards the big picture.

Czuch: I don't know... The schools here have very good computer systems whether in both public and what is called 'aided' schools (ie a school linked to a religion) ... My son's infant school has dozens of Pc's and laptops....

Energy saving here has become a big issue and modern bulbs are not that expensive and save big time.. we use several in our house... and modern heating systems (such as we have) are far more cheaper to run.

.... So if he enacts the energy saving program he'll have money for other things. And as for Iraq... I imagine that if some talking is done they can work out at least a partial withdrawal saving some dosh.

The medical records thing is doable, we've managed to set up systems in the UK so it can be done.

No quick fixes here, it's stuff that whoever is the next pres after will have to continue and probably on for many years. No-one can predict the future to far ahead, so unless some major spanner hits the works, progress towards these goals can be achieved.

.... And you know it's needed if America is going to maintain it's place in the world.

(V): I am not sure the kind of economic stimulation we will get from Obama is something sustainable 20 or 30 years down the road? At some point these are really temporary jobs created. Not that it wont help in the short run, but its not an economic plan to stand the test of time.

Its no different than anything else these days, our economy over the past 200 years has been second to none, but everyone just wants to look at the last 4.

The globe has gone through many climate changes in its long history, but now we hear people complain they havent seen it so hot in their lifetimes as some sort of definitive irreversible global warming hysteria.

Czuch: He probably will need two terms to make all this happen, and quite frankly with people in the USA being a little annoyed with the Republican party he might get it.

And if the Republican party block Obama in such projects, then it'll just serve to prove they have lost contact with the needs of the economy and the American people.

Czuch: I'm sorry, but acted like a liberal? Somehow I doubt if that could be held to be a true summation of his actions while Pres.

And if you were a realist then you'd realise that a multiple party system is part of a democracy and that people will vote based not only on election promises but on the actions of the party whilst in power. That's why the Conservatives over here have found it so hard to get re-elected as the dominant party in UK politics since Maggie Thatcher.

Czuch: ENERGY: "[W]e will launch a massive effort to make public buildings more energy-efficient. Our government now pays the highest energy bill in the world. We need to change that. We need to upgrade our federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing efficient light bulbs. That won't just save you, the American taxpayer, billions of dollars each year. It will put people back to work."

—ROADS AND BRIDGES: "[W]e will create millions of jobs by making the single largest new investment in our national infrastructure since the creation of the federal highway system in the 1950s. We'll invest your precious tax dollars in new and smarter ways, and we'll set a simple rule – use it or lose it. If a state doesn't act quickly to invest in roads and bridges in their communities, they'll lose the money."

—SCHOOLS: "[M]y economic recovery plan will launch the most sweeping effort to modernize and upgrade school buildings that this country has ever seen. We will repair broken schools, make them energy-efficient, and put new computers in our classrooms. Because to help our children compete in a 21st century economy, we need to send them to 21st century schools."

—BROADBAND: "As we renew our schools and highways, we'll also renew our information superhighway. It is unacceptable that the United States ranks 15th in the world in broadband adoption. Here, in the country that invented the Internet, every child should have the chance to get online, and they'll get that chance when I'm president – because that's how we'll strengthen America's competitiveness in the world."

(Incoming White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel had talked about expanding broadband access, but this is the first time the transition has formally proposed it.)

—ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS: "In addition to connecting our libraries and schools to the Internet, we must also ensure that our hospitals are connected to each other through the Internet. That is why the economic recovery plan I'm proposing will help modernize our health care system – and that won't just save jobs, it will save lives. We will make sure that every doctor's office and hospital in this country is using cutting edge technology and electronic medical records so that we can cut red tape, prevent medical mistakes, and help save billions of dollars each year."

I dont think he can deliver most of what he promised. I think he is learning rather quickly that his promise for a fast end to the war is not possible nor prudent, and the funding for a lot of his other promises was based on savings from not being in a war.

(V): So, you are trying to tell me that there are idealists in all parties... that's no surprise.

I tend to think of myself as a realist, I dont think utopia is achievable nor do I subscribe that we attempt to attain it.

(V): Is that why under Bush the USA national debt has sky rocketed.

Partly because of a war, partly because he didnt stay true to his conservative root, and he acted more like a liberal.

Maybe you guys should watch this film.....

"Harold & Kumar escape from Guantanamo Bay" ... especially the bit about Bush..... I would post a link here, but some stuff is not suitable for children.

"you don't have to believe in your government to be a good American, you just have to believe in your country"

Vikings: Is that why under Bush the USA national debt has sky rocketed.

Czuch: I see certain conservatives that tend to be idealists with no real connection to the real world, with no real idea about what works and what doesn't work. With no real idea of peoples needs or what to do about problems except make up some strange political election promise that will never work.

So, you are trying to tell me that there are idealists in all parties... that's no surprise.

anastasia: ROFL.....

Bernice: lol.love it so much I have the symbol for it tattooed onto my ankle ;)

Artful Dodger: doncha just love that word..."KARMA" lol

Czuch: honestly,it doesn't bother me to have to pay school taxes even tho I don't have kids,and never will have kids...I think EVERYONE is entitled to a good education,and if thats what my tax dollars are going to,then I am all for it,sure...

Vikings:

Artful Dodger: exactly, and that size is more cash

Artful Dodger: of coarse it is a generalization, there are exceptions, I have heard of a public school that is in a poor community in Texas that had one of the worst records in the country that has changed their focus and is now one of the top in the nation including private, their students go to school up to 10 hours a day

anastasia: So instead of the portion of the tax revenue that would go to the public school to babysit, I mean teach, your child, that portion of the budget would go to you to use for your child in the private school, and then you would have to pay any balance for the private school out of your own pocket.


How do you feel about not having any children yet still having to pay school taxes?

anastasia: a voucher is a tax credit given to a family of a child that would attend a private school to help pay for it

Vikings: I don't have kids,nor do I want them,so I have no clue what this vocher thing is...can someone fill me in,please?? I have heard the term on the news but never paid much mind to it

Czuch: OMG...dare I say that I AGREE that you have a good idea there,LMAO!!!

Artful Dodger: Since you have the ability to edit in here, maybe every once in awhile you could add something to the top of the page, something like a suggested topic for the day or week , something to help change the focus of an old debate, or to get something going when it gets slow... kind of like vikes changing the name of a specific board now and again to reflect a certain topic, like is Obama really change we can believe in?

Just an idea!

(V): Demons tend to be well... just shadows.

Well I personally know some of those shadows.... yes I even shared some of the cool aid back in the day, thats partly why i am so passionate in my attempts to enlighten people to some of my views.... I am sure i know way more people who have started where I did and become conservatives than there are conservatives who later in life see the light of liberalism

Liberals tend to be idealists, so do young and innocent and frankly, naiive people... idealism may be a fine, acid induced theme for a song or two, but I dont see it as a sound political venue

Artful Dodger: You misunderstand my aim, it's not at the teachers, they go into teaching for the passion, and are mostly, with the exceptions of the ones that have ulterior motives,are very good. It's the at the administration level where the problem is

Czuch: You think John Lennon invented those ideas of communes and all... they go back to how we use to live before civilization and governments... Though I think some in Israel and other countries still like the idea.

.. Demons tend to be well... just shadows. Mostly made up things that we are just programmed to accept. Eg The McCarthy period in the USA. Mostly they are just made up by the politicians to keep you on their side rather then vote for the other side.

Artful Dodger: vouchers will only hurt the public schools if they fail to respond by putting their emphasis on producing a superior product, right now with little competition there is no need to have that be their focus and the result is failing school systems

(V): Regardless if it's a public or private boost up.



Well a public boost up usually means ripping the cash right out of my wallet, not so with a private boost up! You never seem to mention the up to 70% taxes some people pay in socialized countries, or the 9 dollar a gallon of gas and the like, its a matter of priorities, government boost costs more money than private boosts do, I prefer to keep more of my own hard earned money to do with as i please and let the private sector take most of the load, leaving the government to do only what is necessary thereafter...

you obviously dont mind handing the government your hard earned money to boost others with, i personally dont think the government is very good at spending money, huge amounts of waste everywhere, you always hear about the $1000 dollars the government spends on a bolt or whatever.. you obviously think your money is best spent by government bureaucrats, my experience is that government bureaucrats are not very thrifty when it comes to spending money, and when it is my money they are spending, well it relly bothers me!

(V): I really do think you have pre conceived ideas of what liberalism stands for that are wrong.


I am sure I do, and I look forward to finding out what they are? I admit that one problem I have is blanketing all liberals with the broad brush of the far left..... I know just like conservatives there is a continuum from far extreme to moderate, and maybe a place in the middle where they cross. I know there are some fiscal conservatives, for the open and free markets with little government interference who are also socially minded when it comes to welfare etc. and some just the opposite too.

I dont think you though quite have a grasp on what the American liberal actually represents.... as it seems to me to be a bit different from what they are over there?

But let me assure you that generally speaking when you hear about what I refer to as silly rules like no keeping score in youth sports, that 99% of the time comes from the mind of some bleeding heart well intended but misguided liberal!

and it comes from the hippie days of the john lennon 60s where we dream of the day when we all live in a commune and all share in all the chores and grow food for everyone to share and are all happy and sing and hold hands and we give peace a chance... its all a good dream on acid, and those people have grown up and have their own children and they still have their drug induced fantasies and they are trying to implement that fantasy dream into the reality for their children, and they believe if we just make everyone the same with no haves and no have not and no one person better or smarter or faster of richer or poorer, then we will just have this happy magical world.... and some of these people have made their way into politics and have made their idyllic dreams into some laws and rules and regulations.... and in a few years those people will all be dead, and left in their wake we will have a huge mess of mediocrity, and grown children who do not have the instincts for survival or the prowess to strive fro excellence, and America will not be the proud leader and innovater that I grew up with and love!



See now??? Do you see the demons I have to live with every single day of my life??? The demons that I try to fight in here and everywhere I go, day in and day out? Do you see now where i come from??? Somebody anybody please please help me, help me, help me...

Czuch: Nope. Well seeing as you class me as a 'liberal' I find that complete rubbish. I stand for people having the best openings available to them, no matter what they choose to do. Regardless if it's a public or private boost up.

I really do think you have pre conceived ideas of what liberalism stands for that are wrong.

Artful Dodger: He still may get out in 5 years... i wonder if in his parole will be where he gets the most prejudice from the system in regards to his past?

Artful Dodger: Any thoughts on vouchers? I would think that public schools would be happy the more kids they could get out of their system and into private schools, making their student ratio easier to manage?

(V): but that we are all equal or in some respects are is not a liberal idea


I am not saying liberals think we are all equal, liberals think we all should be and have to be equal or they feel some sort of guilt about it, and do all in their power to remove that guilt by implementing silly rules and laws designed to even the playing field for everyone.... like somehow not keeping score in a game really changes the fact that someone got their butts kicked!hahah

ellieoop: I dont think you will get much debate on that one! Not too many people feel sorry for OJ right now, I just hope this had no revenge factor to it, as it seems legit that it did not!

Forum for discussing local and world politics and issues. All views are welcomed. Let your opinions be heard on current news and affairs?

again i just dont like the redundancy of the word politics, replacing it with the word affairs?

hahah, shocked coming from me that I am against redundant anything huh?

i think he finally is getting some of what he deserved 14 yrs. ago. i know this was a different case, but it still makes feel as good as the goldmans do. i think the judge in this case went easy on him, if i remember right, life sentence was another option she had.

Czuch: I'm sorry Czuch, but that we are all equal or in some respects are is not a liberal idea, it is in fact a religious and philosophical idea based on religious texts and the ideas of certain great thinkers.

For example, the Bible says we are all part of the body of the sonship, just in different positions in relation to that body. So in certain respects we are all equal, but in others we are not.

But being a individual, I stand for what I think and feel and not a party.

Artful Dodger: Children from affluent homes generally do better in school anyway so it stands to reason that private school would fare better.

This is true it seems... affluent parents are likely better educated than non affluent parents, making it more likely that the level of education in the home from the parents is likely higher in affluent homes, helping the child to do better in school than the child from the non affluent home.

I also agree that there are many public schools that do better than private ones, but in general and overall, private has got to win out, even if simply based on the student teacher ratio, i think my school it was something like 8 or 9 to 1!!!

(V): No as the NEA is an union entrenched entity