Artful Dodger: Of course the banking system needs regulating, not only that but all parts of the financial system. I mean.... I use to run a P/L dept and we had auditors every year.

But... governments have been quite happy to leave them as they are as it helps in the ol boom and bust economic policies that we've had to put up with.

... Maybe a ban on our governments using the B&B system would also be helpful.

Artful Dodger: Nahhh I was merely commentating on how O'Reilly a confirmed republican suddenly left the party to look good for TV.

I wouldn't compare myself to O'Reilly... He's not always truthful. And the rest..... Well.

Artful Dodger: Gee Art, did you think us *cough**cough* independents (as O'Reilly likes to call himself ) don't agree always with the Pres, even if he is a republican.....

.... And It's not George that's wanting this is it amongst your government.

"BMW's UK sales were down 41% in November. Mercedes were down 57%. "

Mercedes Benz... 4 day week.
Honda has cut it's annual profit forecast by 62%
Jaguar are in talks over help....

It's GLOBAL.

Artful Dodger: ... National debt has been rising in your country for years.

And I thought the job of the government in the USA was to protect it's people from all enemies.. foriegn and internal/domestic.

A collapse of major industries in your country is not a good idea. It's not a case of can't compete.. the whole car industry is reporting significant downturns in sales.. some I hear over 30%

.. And please don't exaggerate.. Your gov ain't talking about bailing all out. Enough to make sure you have an economy that after this depression.. recession or whatever you call it is over.

... You don't want it like in the film "(V)" where America has gone to pot and collapsed into anarchy do you?

Czuch: Maybe... maybe not. But if no help is given then they will probably go under. And that will affect millions of workers. And as for private firms... What money spare do they have at the mo? Everyone is um.. making a mess in their pants over the current situation and who's gonna fall.

Two companies over that have been part of british culture for years are about to go and close. One couldn't even get someone to buy it for £1, the only condition was to they were to responsible for the debts. And this a chain of nearly 1000 shops.. you might now them.... Woolworths.

Czuch: It means both parties are agreeing that help is needed in your government.

After all.... It's no good the whole USA economy going down the tubes.

Czuch: Nahhhh Can't hate Bush.. his policies yep. But especially after seeing the parody of him in a film recently... Let's just say it was funny.

Czuch: I look at the wording, so often it's over dramatised and made bigger just for impact sake rather then accurate reporting.

Over here, they have party political broadcasts and things like question time for politicians to waffle on, so much of the news is kept clean of politics except for news on what they are doing, budget, PM question time (always a good laugh no matter who's in power)

But that's the normal stations.. cable ones can be a little more .... well they are privately owned, but still report to the regulators same as the normal ones.

Bernice: Nope I still have my marbles.

Czuch: well I am not. I'm talking all communication types.

The other news about Iraq.... Gordon Brown has stated that after our troops have left a full scale inquiry (as requested by so many MP's and citizens) will be able to go ahead into what happened and why we went in, as many questions have arisen since the war that have not been answered for fear of putting our troops at a disadvantage.

Czuch: Not quite true... Maybe.. Fox is the only dedicated right wing news TV cable channel, but what about digital TV and normal terrestrial? Plus with all the radio stations on the conservative slant, etc... you right wingers do have quite a voice.

Oh we've had positive news on Iraq.. Our British troops will be withdrawn by July next year and re stationed in Afghanistan giving that war a much needed boost in active personnel. I hear the same starting to happen to American troops.

..... Maybe they'll catch ol Bin with the extra troops.

Jim Dandy: Sometimes I find reading or watching both left and right gets you closer to the truth.... You know.. read between the lines and that they take each other to task and keep the other side .. Um, for the lack of a better word.... honest.

Artful Dodger: Name all the conservative outlets for news and views by any media.... how many hundreds are there.

As I said, this is the modern age, TV no longer has the dominance that it use to.

Czuch: Hard news is just one part of Fox news. Same as with the BBC showing 'hard news' as well as ed's and the like. IE interviews.

Simple.

Jim Dandy: Resolution rarely happens.. It's just a debate.

Artful Dodger: http://www.rightwingnews.com/ as an example.
Youtube... various other sites.. what was that one you use to use on IYT and in the debate club for material.

If I was to name all the various outlets for conservative thought and republicans views in the USA this post would be very, very long.

So I won't name them. I ain't clicking on all those links just to prove something you already know to be true.

TV, Internet, Papers, Radio, Letter, leaflet, posters, books, dvd and some others I can't think of at the mo.

... Much shorter list and more to the point.

Artful Dodger: Nope. I think from what I've seen there are more conservative outlets out there... modern tech makes such things possible.

Artful Dodger: Fox news. It's a network channel. Run by republicans and Rupert Murdoch a known right wing media tycoon owns it.

Artful Dodger: You tell me, I'm off to finish dinner.

Artful Dodger: I have, you just don't want to admit it. Czuch sees it.


And in the bottom left corner is Fox News, even if it is an editorial or 'entertainment' program.

Artful Dodger: I asked who she was as it was not clear, did you not read that by my !?!

But she has appeared on the Fox network.. seems to do alot of shows if the encyclo is right?

Including this one.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-Agwc9D8Q
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AZLfLmncPEc
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nveiuLxc9Eo

.. many other appearances by what looks like from the logo in the bottom left corner.... Fox News.

If she's so bad why have her on the network?

Czuch: hmmm I could say the same about conservative 'entertainment'... especially some of the stuff that got passed on as ads showing your new pres's capability to defend America. Or how he was made to look by repub supporters... maybe they just new he'd win ny a bigger margin unless they tried to make him look like a demon.

It's a funny ol game politics.

Czuch: There maybe only one pro conservative news tv channel aka Fox (something I've not got the time to check at the mo) but there are plenty of pro repub/conserv shows and editorials on other networks, not to mention on the web.

... Is that not true?

As I said, find a channel then that exposes all. Maybe we should send Jeremy over to the states for a while and do a few shows... He doesn't care what party you are, he'll pick to pieces any dodgy stuff and plain old 'avoiding the point at question.'

He's fun to watch.

Jim Dandy: I think it's like Sun readers over here. They say they are working class people yet they are reading a conservative paper who openly support in their ed's the conservatives... Thanks to Rupert Murdoch who also owns Fox.

No-one really cares as it's a personal choice where you get your news.

Artful Dodger: So they keep each other in check... you have conservative biased networks and liberal biased networks who take each other to task exactly like your political parties do.

Wow. I'm not surprised, anyone with a brain in the UK would see that from just looking at our UK papers, etc.

It's the way of the world Art, you can deny all you want but it doesn't make it true.

Artful Dodger: So the fact that their editorial stance is conservative biased has no meaning.... Right.. ok. I get it.. I think... Everything about fox is conservative biased except for the news??

... I'll believe you... except I can't as I know fox is a biased network.

And the women was a fox rep.. high up management!?!
It sure does show how the people working for the company support the repubs.

Artful Dodger: As we say over here... Ohhhhhhhh no I didn't.

Explain the policy of this lady from Fox in this report...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EalIHHYisY0

Jim Dandy: Ol' Rupert Murdoch even admitted (him being a known conservative over here in the UK, owning several papers with a right wing stance thanks to his policies) that his company have attempted to sway opinion on certain matters.

Most if not all news channels, etc have a stance, some minor, some large.

Bernice: Google is just one... it leads to info that years ago was unavailable, unless your country uses heavy censorship that is.

It also leads to several online encyclopedias.... articles.. medical sites.. .. youtube... hints on DIY, gardening, and one of my favs... cheap pc parts sites..

And has saved me through some knowledge I gained at least £50 in the last month from getting to understand a shop's system, and helped me get the phone number of a certain dept of a certain company that I was unhappy with.

..... Customer care didn't know it.

Artful Dodger: I did give examples... the youtube stuff.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQ4gAAVW2k


Altering photo's

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3RhuGVGF21g


Editing interviews.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8HmHmZ7SM8E
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eUxQadgSkoA

Fox news lying.

Artful Dodger: I quote.....

Jonah Goldberg
"Look, I think liberals have reasonable gripes with Fox News. It does lean to the right, primarily in its opinion programming but also in its story selection (which is fine by me) and elsewhere. But it's worth remembering that Fox is less a bastion of ideological conservatism and more a populist, tabloidy network."

And ....

"According to the results of a 2006 study by the Project for Excellence in Journalism a survey of 547 journalists, found that FOX was most frequently cited by surveyed journalists as an outlet taking an ideological stance in its coverage, and most identified as advocating conservative political positions,[33] with 56% of national journalists citing Fox News as being especially conservative in its coverage of news. Additionally FOX was viewed as having the highest profile as a conservative news organization; it was cited unprompted by 69% of national journalists"

"The "signature political news show" of the Fox News Channel, Special Report with Brit Hume, was alleged to have a strong bias in their choice of guests, overwhelmingly choosing "conservatives" over "non-conservatives" for interviews. The progressive media watchdog group Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) claimed that in a study of a 19 week period from January 2001 to May 2001 the ratio of conservative guests to liberals was 50:6."

Then there is your old friend Bill O'Reilly ..... It may not be a 'news' show the political bias of the program is aimed at conservative people and is not always truth full.

anastasia: You'll have to change country and annoy someone rich

Artful Dodger: You watch Fox and say the press is supposed to be unbiased!! They all have slants, some deliberate to attract a certain class of viewer based on what they want to attract.

... It makes for a better payroll as advertisers can be charged more based on the idea of a more specific audience.

coan.net: Throwing shoes is an insult over there.

Artful Dodger:

"Apparently because the government feels the economy will suffer if they don't. I don't know about that one either."

.... It's like blowing up a building... uncontrolled bad news... debris everywhere.

"n fact, it was the government that caused the loss of thousands of jobs. They will claim that after deregulation other companies were created, and thereby the creation of new jobs."

Nope, not governments fault, it's called competition, free market and all. Not the governments fault that things didn't go exactly as they hoped. That was private sector decisions.

"Whoever told you that is a nut. We should ALWAYS question our leaders. But we should also support them in their difficult job."

Yes it is a nutty idea. As to support... that's a matter upto the individual, I'd say maybe a better line would be not to interfere.

"The government sucks at running a hospital. They can't rebuild New Orleans because they've created a huge process for building."

New Orleans is a big city is it not, and why not at the same time make a better city and lessen the probability of a similar event.
... And hundreds of houses compared to how many hundreds of thousands of buildings isn't exactly much.

"An excellent point which illustrates why the government often fails when it runs things: pointless policies based on ill-thought ideas. That sums it up quite nicely."

And that doesn't happen in private industry? Sinclair went under due to the C5 project, recently in the news is the trouble with hedge funds with billions been lost because (as an expert said) no-one really looked at what they were doing... and from what I hear it isn't the only case and more will apparently appear. The only thing that I see the government in the USA doing wrong in this instance is unlike the UK regulation is not mandatory in the hedge fund business.

... Oversea call centres... bad lines, badly trained staff (as I've found out) and most companies are now reversing the idea and setting things up so all call centres are based in the UK... I imagine the USA has the same problem.

All sectors private and public can make bad decisions. that is the truth of the matter.

In an article dated 2007 it's saying health insurance premiums rose by 6.1% the lowest increase in 10 years in America.

Yet the health care system in the USA is very inefficient and not ranked high in the world tables.

Artful Dodger: Is this benefits due to health insurance, etc.

..... Well, If the seemingly over charging health insurance companies were kept in check.. rather if what I've seen a bit corrupt.. wouldn't that bring costs down?

Artful Dodger: If it's not the job of the gov to not bail out failing industries.... Then why the bank rescues? Or the rescue of Fannie mae, etc?
And I would have thought that helping the jobs of millions survive while something can be sorted is a good thing... Isn't it??

And yes, some work on pay, what needs to be kept or dropped, possible mergers, maybe some more cost effective manufacturing systems, or as mentioned the production of realistic cars rather then gas eaters.

No, I don't believe the government is always right, I was told it was so by a supporter of the republicans and that we shouldn't question our leaders..

... But I know that is wrong.

And for private sectors doing better jobs... .. No, not in all cases, not even in the majority of what is effectively public sector projects. We had corporate man slaughter introduced due to a previously public sector org now gone privately owned, Surgeons over here are getting very annoyed with private run sterilisation companies mucking up kits for operations, so the operation has to be cancelled. I could go on... like how we saw a private tube maintenance team doing bodge jobs on tube tracks.

.... But the post will be two pages long.

Private are good in some instances, public in other, it's always been the way and it is a good system. The trick is knowing which and not just mucking about based on pointless policies based on ill thought ideas.

Ahh.. another, our water pipe system. The companies were told last year to fix the leaks as the leakage was so great it was diabolical.

anastasia: But that's just part of it.... I think the expense bills should be cut by 3/4

If they have to have an official dinner, let them order from pizza hut or McD's and have a bud instead of expensive wines, etc.

That's a few million saved each year at least.

Artful Dodger: Like who? Bernard Madoff??

Are you telling me that all the economists and such (you have like we have civil servants?) have now left the white house and all the related depts that deal with the economy already!!

Are you willing to stake millions on jobs on someone who will disagree just because they don't like your new government?

.. Funny, when the Bush was in power I was lead to believe (or told to) that the government is always right.

Snoopy: Yep. That was a step to far. But the democratic right of a group of people to hold a peaceful protest is still much used.

Ghandi changed a country and ended a war through it.

"The White House said a disorderly bankruptcy in the motor industry would be a huge blow which the US economy could not withstand."

anastasia: Greed and the ability to give themselves wonderful pay rises.. It's the golden handshakes that get to me.... where some get it even if they've done a bad job and are having to resign or get sacked.

... In those conditions I don't think they should get a penny extra except what is owed to them under the same laws as average John by state law. Usually paid till the end of the month or what ever pay period is used.

Snoopy: Ohhhhhhh yes we do, just certain practices are now illegal that they use to do when it came to strikes.

There have been quite a few one or two day strikes in the last year by various unions which they take if the membership do so vote in the majority. Plus all the lorry driver protests over fuel prices specifically 'duty'

... I've seen teachers and experianced the consequences of teachers striking, seen council workers strike, fireman strike, tube drivers strike, and many threats of such unless a compromise could be met over the unions demands (supported by the members) which would lead to a resolution to the problem or dispute at hand.