Why is there a considerable delay between the 'last term to sign up' for a tournament and the time when it actually gets started?

Blackadder Mr K: What do you think why they have BrainKnight and BrainRook Membership for!!! So, you can play more tournament. Being brainpawn you can't have everything you want your way.
Have a nice day! :-)

Hi !

The tournament I am in goes like a snail,,how can we speed it up in the future ?
It`s not fun to wait so long before you can join another tournament. Why not make some kind of special rule when it comes to this kind of game ?
This is something for us to think about in the future !!!!

:o( Sorry Whisperz, didn't want to tread on your toes starting a tablut tourney as well. Just trying to get the new members interested!

You see that there are no tournaments of a particular type and so decide to make then suddenly off they go ... well here is the one that started the trend ... this is your last day so sign up now at:
Tablut - Black + White #1 (Tablut)

Any pawns here want to win a 6 months rook membership??? Join the tablut PRIZE tournament!!

Starts in one month... You need 7 free slots to join. If you sign up and find you do not have the available slots when the tournament starts you will not be allowed to participate.
Good luck to all :o)

LOL, that answered my question, thanks

Una

Only Brain Rook (and above) can define a new tournament.

I have have checked all the places I could think to find informaiton on how to define a tournament. Help, FAQ, Touraments, My Tournaments does not show a link. Doesn't seem that only paid memebers are allowed to do so.
Thanks, I am sure the link to define a tournament is in a very logical spot??

HURRY!!!! Only one more Spiderline4 player rated between 1800-2200 needed by 1st June.

Want to be added to the list of people to beat me senseless at Checkers? Then Join up.

http://www.brainking.com/game/Tournaments?trg=638

All are welcome. Lets face it, its the easiest way to boost you're own BKR :o)

Everyone is welcome to enter Bazz's first Tourney.
Closing date 1st June, 2 games per player, 3 days per move, 4 games to choose from- Line4, Spiderline4, Linetris and antiline4!

I just created a Gothic Chess "warm up" tournament.
Sign up if you want to practise your game a bit before the big money tournament.
Only for fast players, please.
Sign-ups close and games begin this Saturday.

NEW SUBJECT YAHOOOOOO

There is a new tournament for all those budding Tablut players out there. Come join the fun at:

Tablut - Black + White #1

that was a good one pipilo. Ok, I'll try to avoid repeating mself in the future. Ambiguous statements are probably the number one cause of repeated statements, so I'll also try to make sure my statemnents are not vague or ambiguous.

chattytea 25. May 2003, 22:15:36
ok, so boards may not be interesting when they are empty, some of us like debates, some dont. BUT why do things have to be repeated so often?

That's what she said, and I totally agree with her every word.
Here endeth the lesson.

ha ha pipilo!!!!

Sorry, just kidding...

What?

ok, so boards may not be interesting when they are empty, some of us like debates, some dont. BUT why do things have to be repeated so often?

For once, I agree with DK! The board IS more interesting with a decent debate. :)

Then again, I agree with everyone that it's time to move on.

And the last word was had by Dmitri King,

Three cheers everyone, HIP HIP HOORAY, HIP HIP HOORAY, HIP HIP HOORAY.

Ok. I agree to disagree and move on.

I should note, on a mostly unrelated point, that prior to this discussion, this message board had an average of about 4 or 5 posts per week. Seems to me that a debate would make the board MORE interesting than when it was rarely used, after all, how interesting can a board be when there are no posts for days on end?

And the last word was had by Dmitri King,

Three cheers everyone, HIP HIP HOORAY, HIP HIP HOORAY, HIP HIP HOORAY.

BBW-- I am sorry if I misconstrued anything you said-- Internet posts often do get misconstrued, often through no fault of the writer or the reader of the post; it isj ust the nature of impersonal internet conversations.

You have, however, made yourself very clear on this point:

"AGAIN, here is the point of the whole thing: A player is limited to 1 tournament at a time. (THIS IS A GOOD RULE). The problem is the one player could be done with all his games in 2 weeks, and he may lose all his games and knows he will not move on. In MY OPINION he is done with that tournament and should be allowed to join a new tournament. (And not have to wait up to 6 months for other players playing in other games) Do you understand this point????????? (IF not, just say so - and quit trying to argue it - I'll try to explain it better, OK??) "

So, yes, I understand you COMPLETELY here. And here is my retort. Any non member who objects to this policy has a SIMPLE way of eliminating the prolbem. BUY A MEMBERSHIP. Problem solved! That si really the only point I was making. All the other tangential converstions stemmed from this one, about the possibility fo a lingering tournament.

I think the reason the conversation often gets steered in that direction (as it has several times over the last few months) is because someone always chips in with "Well, not everyone can afford a membership" when I state "Buy a membership" as a solution to the prolbme of only being able to enter one tournament and having to wait for it to be completely finished.

Dmitri: Now I know why people have a hard time trying to have a discussion with you - you keep pulling things in to a conversation that is ?????

OK, first: Yes, my example was just a "bad scenario" that could happen to a player. It does not have to do with Fencer (Never said it did) - all I said is THINGS LIKE THAT MAKE THE WHOLE SITE LOOK BAD. When a player only has a limited experiance and bad things happen in that limited experiance - do you really think they are just going to pay and hope things get better? (OK, maybe you do - but most others probable won't)

I NEVER said that it was wrong for people to play slow (Where you get this stuff... I have no idea??) - if they are within their time limit, FINE. I'm a slow player - I think I even posted that somewhere recently that I've been playing slow recently. (Mostly because when I do have a few hours, the site always seems to be down or something - but that has NOTHING to do with this!!!) --- but you still feel like bringing things up that has nothing to do with what I posted.

AGAIN, here is the point of the whole thing: A player is limited to 1 tournament at a time. (THIS IS A GOOD RULE). The problem is the one player could be done with all his games in 2 weeks, and he may lose all his games and knows he will not move on. In MY OPINION he is done with that tournament and should be allowed to join a new tournament. (And not have to wait up to 6 months for other players playing in other games) Do you understand this point????????? (IF not, just say so - and quit trying to argue it - I'll try to explain it better, OK??)

I'm not "chiming in about slow players" - players can play as slow as they want in my opinion - BUT if those games just happen to be in the same tournament section, it can effect the new pawn player who may get a bad impression of this site. AGAIN, I'm not saying that the other players should be playing any faster - just that if all the games are complete in the tournament section for a player, and he has NO chance to move to the next section - he should be allowed to join a new tournament. (Hopefully you will understand this and stop pulling new things into this) If you don't agree, just say you don't agree - and quit bringing other things into this. ugh!

And about joining non-tournament games - LIKE I ALREADY SAID - Many people play different ways - some do not like playing non-tournament games - I know I do not. ugh.....

This will be my last post on this subject... I should have known better then to try to discuss this with Dmitri...

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

I disagree Harley. working a minimum wage job and having no savings is being "poor" to me. You may disagree, but last time I checked, a minimum wage job would put someone below the poverty line.

Don't get me wrong, when I have been poor, I wasted al ot of money. I gained enjoyment from junk food, movies, and other luxuries. BUt that is just what they were-- luxuries. And if something else came up that I did not have the money for, it wasn't because I could not afford it, it was because UI had chosen to spend them oney on other things.

If you can say this, Dmitri, you have obviously never been poor. Consider yourself fortunate. I'm not discussing anything else because it is getting tedious and I have a headache as it is.

I agree with Chatty wholeheartedly, also, it is so boring and tedious its enough to put people off buying a membership.

We don't have to get into a huge discussion.

If we are talking about those who CAN afford to pay, but Don't, then the vast minority who CANNOT afford to pay are NOT relevant to the discussion, BECAUSE ET DISCUSSION IS ABOUT THOSE WHO CAN PAY BUT DO NOT!

Furthermore, to exempt a small minority from a discussion is not in any way demeaning! By your logic, if Iwas talking about prisoners, and I said "Of course, those small minority who are innocent are IRRELEVANT" you would say that I am demeaning the innocent!

Well, clearly that is not the case, they just are not RELEVANT to the discussion.

As for your point A) Of course we cannot kow how many are truly in that position. But one of the great things about human beings is our ability to reeasn, so I am entitled to use my poewers of reason to try to approximate.

1) I think we coudl all agree that those who cannot afford ten dollars for 6 months are fairly destitute.

2) That being the case, I would estimate that very few of the 4800 brain pawns are in that position.

I think ti is a fair assumption that most brain pawns just choose not to afford it. I have heard people say "Well, I have 8000 dolalrs of college loans, etc. etc. etc." So what? Lots of people have loans, I know many of thme, and all of them easily waste ten dollars over a 6 month period.

If someone really doesn;t spend ten dolalrs in 6 months on any type of luxuries, then that person truly canot afford a memberaship. If there is someone who actually fits that description, I would love to hear from him. BUt until then, people who spend 30 dollars a month on cable TV DO NOT qualify as "not being able to afford a 2 dolalrs a month membership"

I think our societyhas lost its sanity. SOmewhere along thel ine, a sense of entitlement crept in, such that luxuries are now considered necessities.

I think anyone who is in need of shelter, food, clothing, or medical care should havethese needs addressed. I support the existence of government institutions to handle these needs.

BUt I think it is really warped that people who spend money on certain luxuries then claim to not be able to affird other luxuries.

Don't get me wrong, when I have been poor, I wasted al ot of money. I gained enjoyment from junk food, movies, and other luxuries. BUt that is just what they were-- luxuries. And if something else came up that I did not have the money for, it wasn't because I could not afford it, it was because UI had chosen to spend them oney on other things.

You have taken issue with my approximatin the number of people who can and cannot afford an inxpensive membership. Why is one not alllowed to pproximate? Would you take issue with me if I said that "more than 99% of the people in this coutnry can afford to give away a nickle today?"

I don't think anyone would. Well, I seel ittle difference between that statement and my approximation about brain Pawns.

How is it hurtful and demeaning to them? He simply said they were irrelevent to the discussion. What if he said that the millionaires on this site were irrelevent to the discussion (like he said)? Would that be hurtful and demeaning to them to?

i really think this discussion has gone on long enough! i for one and fed up with seeing the same thing repeatedly posted time and time again, and i am sure others are too!
please give it a rest!

Dmitri, here... "YEs. We agree, but probably not in terms of degree. I tihnk that the people we have discussed (those who truly cannot afford a membership) are veyr few and far between, so few that they are irrelevant to the discussion."

I' not going to get into a huge discussion about this, I think its enough to say that a) you cannot know how many people really are in this position and b) it wouldn't matter if it was 1 person or 1000 people. That statement is hurtful and demeaning to those people.

BBW-- you are citing coincidental factors as reasons. You presented every possible bad scenario that oculd happen to a player in a tournament. NOen of it has to do with Fencer, Brain King, or the site, but rather, a few rude people and a couple of slow players.

A person can sign up for a small tournament with a fast move limit.

Thisb rings me to another point. You and a few others seem to think ti is objectionable when a player who is slow holds up a tournament. I for one have little to complain about in this regard. A person is entitled to use the time given to him.

BUt, I was a bit surprised to see you chiming in about slow players, given that you play veyr slowly, taking a long time for each move, regardless of the game situation, which is in fact, holding up a tournament.

Anyhow, perhaps you weren't compaining about that act, but just opitning out that it may screw up a brain Pawn who cannot enter any more tournaments.

That was my whole point though-- a paying member need not worry about that.

You said a player might not be able to fins chatting partners in his one tournament? SO WHAT? he can enter 20 non tournamnet games and find chat partners. that portion of your argument is very weak because a player need not play tournament games to chat with opponents. In fact, if one was interested in chat, Why would he play tournamnets games instead of casual personal invite games?

<But please, Dmitri, dont say that people who truly cannot afford membership are irrelevant to ANY discussion. >>>>>

I am confused by your statement Harley. TTJazzberry and I were discussing ability to pay as a sidebar to one of our discussions. I do not believe EITHER of us said that thye are irrelevant to anything.

What we both probably said at some opitn is that the debate is not relevant to the other issues we were debating. If that was not ewhat was said, that was what was implied. I think I may have said that those who treuly cannot afford to pay make up a small percentage of those who are brain Pawns. That is not to say that they are irrelevant, just that they have little statiscital effect on the debate.

There is nothing demaaning about that. If there are 5 millionaires who play here, then those 5 peopel are also statistically insignificant (out of 4800 non paying memberas).

ANyway, my diatribe was actually EXEMPTING those people (who truly cannot afford) from my scorn. I am taking issue with those who CAN pay but don't, then complain. The only thing I said about those who truly cannot pay is that maybe time would be better spent doing something other than playing online games. Of course, if said person is disabled in some way, that might not be possible.

BUT this is all off on a tangent. The real issue is that most brain Pawns can afford to buy a membership, and for whatever reason, do not. I don't think it is because they are dissatisfied with the site, but rather, because they don't feel like getting sometihng for something when htey can get something for NOTHING instread.

And that is theuir choice! I do not object. One of my veyr best friends is a Brain Pawn. But, I guarantee you that never in a million years would he actually complain to Fencer that he isnl;t getting enough. He realizes (unlike some of the loufder brain Pawns) that he is not paying anything, and he is happy with what he has.

[Dmitri King - 25. May 2003, 07:08:56] "If one tournamnet is not enouhg, then I would gather that means you would still have unanswered questions after playig in one tournamnet."

... It is not necessarly that you would still have unanswered questions about how the site works - but if you are limited to just one tournament (which how it is now - you might be "stuck" in only 1 tournament for up to 6 months after you finish your games) - your experiance in the tournament might be bad which will give you the impression that this site is bad - which it is not.

Some people do not play many non-tournament games, just tournament games. That is how I was, and I'm sure I'm not the only person. So take this example:

New person to the site, does not know many people but wants to try things out. Joins a tournament, plays all his games in the tournament within 2 weeks. Now because of other slow players in the tournament, he has to wait to join his next tournament. Even though it says he can only join 1 tournament at a time, and he is done with his 1 tournament - he is upset with BrainKing because he is signing on every day for 2-4 months just to find out that he STILL can not join a new tournament. Not only that, but he likes to chat during the games he played. In all this tournament games he played, he did not find anyone that wanted to chat with him. Not only that, during one of this games, he found someone that was really rude to him.

So now a new player that does not know anyone, finds a rude person and people who don't like to chat. He is also being "punished" by waiting for slow players to play OTHER games that's not even his just so he can join a new tournament. His experince with BrainKing is very bad at this point - which means he probable will not keep loggin on to this site to play, let alone pay for this site. If he was allowed to start playing in his next tournament (AFTER he finishes all his games in the first AND has no chance of winning) - it is possible that he will then find that very friendly person who will chat and help the person out..... hopefully enough to stay around and possible pay to play!

So I guess if you can ensure that each players 1 tournament is a good experiance, well we would not need more then 1. But all it takes is something bad (like wait 6 months for slow players to finish games which your not even playing in, rude players, etc...) and if they are unable to play in new games (because they only like to play in tournaments) - well then the answer is NO, 1 tournament is not enough.

You have to rememeber, not everyone come to a games site for the same things. Some people like to play only non-tournament games. Some people like to play only tournament games. Some people visit the discussion boards, while others never have visited any of the discussions boards.

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

I have been desperately trying to stay out of this because I know from experience that debating with Dmitri and TT can go on for days and round in never-ending circles.

But please, Dmitri, dont say that people who truly cannot afford membership are irrelevant to ANY discussion.
I should imagine these people feel worthless enough without being tossed aside as 'irrelevant'. Not to mention being in the category of 'such a low number it has little to no impact on relevent issues'.

This is partly what I believe TT was saying, you are looking down on people who do not have what you have.

" He/she doesn't have membership? Why not? Unbelievable! Freeloaders! "

" He/she canot afford it?? Why not? Lazy scoundrels!! "

Sound familiar?! It reminds me of Scrooge! "If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population"!!

<"If they are, WHY? couldn't that time be spent working instead? There are jobs out there, people just don't want them."

Some people are disabled, or caring for elderly people and or children. There are many reasons a person may not be able to work.

P.S. I'm glad you now agree "there are indeedp eople in this country or maybe others who canot afford a membership" as it settles another disagreement we had earlier. >>>>>>>>

YEs. We agree, but probably not in terms of degree. I tihnk that the people we have discussed (those who truly cannot afford a membership) are veyr few and far between, so few that they are irrelevant to the discussion. Just to pull some numbers out of thin air-- suppose ten of the brain Pawns are in a financial situation such that a membership is unaffordable--that is suhc a low number that is has little to no impact on any of the relevant issues. NOw, is the number more or less than ten? Who knows.

Perhaps I am just a bit jaded from my years of experiencing seeing pewople who havea very warped sense of "not being able to aford something."

To adddressd what Bid Bad Wolf said, about one tournamnet not being enough todetermine if he likes the site:

If one tournamnet is not enouhg, then I would gather that means you would still have unanswered questions after playig in one tournamnet. I cannot imagine for thel ife of me what these questions might be, but, there are ober 200 paying members who would probably help out in answering any questions that a brain Pawn had (that were not answered by being able to play tewnety games and one tournament).

"If they are, WHY? couldn't that time be spent working instead? There are jobs out there, people just don't want them."

Some people are disabled, or caring for elderly people and or children. There are many reasons a person may not be able to work.

I know there are those issues we DO agree on, and thats not whats this was all about. I merely didnt like any self rightious attitude toward people who cant afford to become members, for whatever reason.

P.S. I'm glad you now agree "there are indeedp eople in this country or maybe others who canot afford a membership" as it settles another disagreement we had earlier.

BBW. I have to beat a dead horase here. I agree with you, somewhat-- there are indeedp eople in this country or maybe others who canot afford a membership, BUT, I donlt think thosep eople are messing around on a site like Brain King!

If they are, WHY? couldn't that time be spent working instead? There are jobs out there, people just don't want them.

TTJazzberry, you said "BBW, you have a good suggestion about letting them opt out of the tournament if no chance of getting to the next round, after all they done that tournament for all intensive purposes. I am all for keeping the limit at 1 tournament as well, there has to be incentive to become a member."

I agre with this! And it seems that we obth agree that then on paying mmebers are already getting good service. so I am not sure what we are arguing about. Perhaps we just misunderstood each other.

As for the "cheapskates" and "freeloaders," I may not have made myself clear on this. Not all Pawns are cheapskates or freeloaders-- some are perfectly content with being a pawn and having limitations on their games and tournaments. This si fine with me-- they realize thay are not paying anything and soo they do not ask for more. Thep eople I cma calling cheapskates and freeloaders are those who are pawns, paying nothing, yet want more than what they are already getting. To me, that is the definition of a free loader. SOme will disagree, but I stand by that definition.

BBW thats very well put and something I was trying to explain myself when I objected to putting ALL unpaid members into one pot and labelling them as a bunch of "cheapskates" and "freeloaders".

Before this gets conveniently misinterpreted, I realise a parcentage of the pawns may indeed be out to get something for nothing, after all its offered to them. What the percentage is I dont know and dont care, as it would be irrevelent.

BIG BAD WOLF:thank your for a clear answer.
please people note,as I said B4.I am not bitching about wanting more service.I too think we pawns are getting good service.I think yoou ideas posted are good.I see no reason why ANY member cant leave a tourny,if all there games are finished.unless it would screw up the mechanics of a tourny.maybe that could be changed so no one has to wait for the tourny to end.but it is up to fencer to decide.I was not questioning the rules,just seeking to know them.perhaps there are things the FAQ's could be expanded on.
I know there is a good reason for allowing pawns to try a tourny.I have spoke to several people to like to see how a site runs its tournys.besides,without the pawns to prey on in tournies,the game sharks in here would have to cannibalize each other.

Good points all BBW.

You are probably right that quite a few people's main reason for being here is the tournaments - my problem was that it sounded like you were assuming that was the #1 reason for everyone.

But the thing is we can argue about this all we want and all we can really do is give our opinion so Fencer can better make a decision. And I think we have all given our opinion. :-)

Exactly - each person has different reasons to be on a game site. One of the more important things for me is tournaments. For others, it is something else.

Again, I'm not saying to give pawns any more then they already have - All I'm saying is to somehow fix it so they can really just join 1 tournament at a time.

As it is now, they can join 1 tournament at at time BUT they may have to wait up to 6 months for slow players!

So basicly all I'm saying is if a player is done with 1 tournament (done with all his games and he can not win his section to move on to the next section) - let the pawn joing his next tournament. It's not giving the pawns any more, it's just helping the pawns who may get "screwed" by other slow players.

... and when they feel like they are getting "screwed" because they have the bad luck to join a tournament that has a player that is going to hold things up for months after they are done - well that might just give the pawn a bad impression of the whole site - which basicly means they will probable never pay to play. (Which most will agree one of the reasons for a pawn account is to get users to pay for a membership)

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

Yes, things like that certainly could happen. But that would only happen if a player views tournaments as the only reason they are staying - because they left due to not being able to join another tournament. That could be i guess, but since they can only join one at a time (and i'm assuming it would this player's first tournament) why would they leave just because they cannot join another tournament? None of this affected me because i was a rook before tournaments or fellowships got introduced, so i guess i don't really know - maybe you would have a better idea than me.

Kevin: ... OK, it should say in the 2nd sentence: "the FINISHED games would still be there and count TOWARDS the other players win/loss" So in "quiting the tournament", it does not remove there already finished games - and the finished games still count toward the win/loss of the other players that are still in that section of the tournament that that player and the other players are player - which the first player decided to just remove himself from the possiblility of winning the section. The games of that person needs to be finished BEFORE he is allowed to remove himself from the possiblility of winning the section and "removing" himself. OK, I hope that will explain it beter. (I'm really not trying to make it difficult - hopefully you will understand what I'm trying to say this time!)

... and for the second part, I guess I will argure it with you. Only 1 tournament would not be enough for me to figure out if I like a site or not - that is enough to decided wether I wanted to pay or not since I don't play that many non-tournament games. If I was a new pawn, and then I joined a tournament. (Which says I'm only allowed to join 1 at a time). I then finish all my games in that tournament in say 2 weeks. Well then I find out I have to wait for other slow players to finish their games in the section to start my next tournament (which I lost all my games so I know I'm not moving on) - so I wait....1 month.... 2 months..... 3 months.... (and by this time, I stop visiting this site - which I like, but stoped playing because I could not join my next tournament - which is the tournament I would have playing with a new friend which would have kept me playing on this site, and paying so I can play more games with my new friend! Now I have so many friends, and I'm a rich person - so I even pay the $1,000 for a awsome Maharajah account! O'wait - I forgot I left after 2 months of not being able to join my next tournament - the site never got my money. :-(

Anyway, that is just an "extreme" example - but things like that do happen - and when you first join, you do not know to join a small 4 player, fast tournament - you don't know that until it is too late and your stuck waiting.... and waiting... and waiting....

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

BBW: If it will remove the person from the tournament, and even if they win they will actually not, it will not really be necessary to wait until all the games are finished (even though later in your post you said "The person and his games would still "be there" and count" which kind of contradicts your 2nd sentence) ;-)

Why would you need more than one tournament to figure out? And even so, pawns can join more than one tournament - just not at a time. If they are worried about it taking a long time, they always have the choice to join one of the small tournaments (4 player max, for example). But that's kind of beside the point.

Kevin: OK, here is what I meant to say: When a person is done with all his games in a tournament, give that person an option to "remove himself" from any chance of winning and moving on to the next section. The person and his games would still "be there" and count, but even if that person does win the section but already "removed himself" - it would go to the next person down the list. In thery, you would not remove yourself if you still have a chance to win the section, but since the game site can not decided it for you at this time - this would let the user decide. (I hope I explained that better this time) :-)

I disagree that only 1 tournament is enough to determin whether a site is good enough or not - but we can disagree about that! :-)