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 Chinese Chess

Xiangqi - Chinese Chess

Knights and Rooks may join the Xiangqi Fellowship which has additional boards for discussion and resources (links to other sites).
Pawns may not join the fellowships, but links from the Xiangqi resources board are have been copied to a Resources message.
Create a New game of Xiangqi,  Established ratings,   Provisional ratings,  The Rules of Xiangqi.
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20. Elokuu 2005, 17:58:57
votacommunista 
Otsikko: interesting endgame with zugzwang
look at: http://brainking.com/game/ArchivedGame?g=976635&i=74 - with the last rook move from me my opponent came into "zugzwang".

I won in the next moves - but can red defend?

21. Elokuu 2005, 01:20:47
Kili 
Otsikko: Re: interesting endgame with zugzwang
Muokannut Kili (21. Elokuu 2005, 01:25:12)
chessmec:
In my opinion white (red) hasn´t a good defence.
Black needs the two rooks for winning.
Are they enough in this position?
Think us about this:
We are going to suposse the black player can capture the two bishops then
Can white do a fortress with the two guards and his king?
The candidate fortress could be "King in e0 + Guard in d0 + Guard in e1" against this Black put his rooks in the squares b0 and e3
What can white player do?
Nothing if the black king is in the column f and it´s the only piece in this column. In this case the move 1.Kf0 is an ilegal move and the white player is stalemate and lost.

In this game white has still two bishops, but it´s not difficult capture first one of them and later the other. After 37...Rd1 the first bishop is captured then white player try doing the fortress against it, the black player puts his rooks in b0 and e3 and his king in f9 without more black pieces in column f, we can suposse the white bishop is in g4 and then
1.Bi2, Re4
2.Bg0, Rb2 and the bishop is lost
If i am right two rooks is enough against two bishop and two guards.

22. Elokuu 2005, 12:23:41
kleineme 
Otsikko: Handling of perpetual checking/chasing
Hi,
considering the fact that perpetual checking is not allowed, what measures Red could have taken if he were not satisfied with a draw in http://brainking.com/de/ArchivedGame?g=983380 ?

22. Elokuu 2005, 13:26:01
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: Handling of perpetual checking/chasing
kleineme: He probably didn't read the rules carefully.

22. Elokuu 2005, 14:37:24
votacommunista 
Otsikko: Re: Handling of perpetual checking/chasing
kleineme: ARGH! I threw away a won game - according to the rules: "# Perpetual check is forbidden. A player cannot check opponent's king more than 3 times in a row with the same piece and the same position."

OK, I thought it would be the same as in chess.

22. Elokuu 2005, 14:44:08
kleineme 
Hi,
sorry for pointing you to that game ;) My question was more in the direction of the enforcement of this rule. On other sites this rule is automatically enforced by the "system" itself. Whom would I have to address here if my opp doesn't want to quit checking?

22. Elokuu 2005, 14:49:42
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re:
kleineme: I want to add a check of repeated positions.

23. Elokuu 2005, 07:59:07
Spirou 
Otsikko: Re: Handling of perpetual checking/chasing
chessmec: So sorry, I feel shameful for having stolen a deserved victory on your part. I apologize. Could you believe, I completely forgot that rule, because it is the truth.

23. Elokuu 2005, 16:41:36
tedbarber 
Otsikko: Chinese Chess Pieces
I prefer the chinese names for the pieces;also what they look like. I have my own set and pieces plus a few English translations of Chinese Chess books on how to play. I am very glad they finally included the only other versions of chess I like besides Gothic.

23. Elokuu 2005, 20:56:02
votacommunista 
Otsikko: Re: Handling of perpetual checking/chasing
Spirou: no problem. we both did not know it ... but we will play a lot games in the future, so ....

24. Elokuu 2005, 11:36:10
ughaibu 
Otsikko: Fencer
There's a mini-xiangqi invented by the inventor of gogo shogi (I've forgotten his name), if you're interested in bringing it to BrainKing I'll see if I can find the rules.

24. Elokuu 2005, 14:05:39
redsales 
Otsikko: Re: Fencer
ughaibu: it's not the one on zillions, is it?

24. Elokuu 2005, 14:06:52
ughaibu 
I dont know, I haven't got Zillions.

25. Elokuu 2005, 12:09:15
jian 
Otsikko: About the Chinese symbols
I note that, for the moment, we do not have Asian players who came played xiangqi on Brainking. It is probable that it will be the case as long as we will not have the possibility of choice between the Western symbols and the Chinese symbols for the representation of the pieces. That is a pity very because we deprive ourselves of the knowledge of the very good players to this game.

25. Elokuu 2005, 12:28:22
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
jian: Can you provide a nice set of Chinese xiangqi pieces? I cannot draw them.

25. Elokuu 2005, 12:34:42
AbigailII 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
Fencer: Can you use the same symbols as on the Chess Variants page? The pieces currently in use look remarkably similar to the westernized pieces on the same page.

25. Elokuu 2005, 12:44:48
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
AbigailII: Yes, I can. But maybe someone could draw a better looking set. I use them only because I don't have anything else.

25. Elokuu 2005, 12:49:42
jian 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
If I send you separate images (at the format JPG for example) representing each piece, you could use them?

25. Elokuu 2005, 12:51:12
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
jian: If I like them, yes :-)

25. Elokuu 2005, 13:47:53
jian 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
Fencer:
OK, I prepare you that and makes you the sending in file attached to an email from here this evening.

25. Elokuu 2005, 14:17:54
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
jian: Thank you.

29. Elokuu 2005, 01:12:41
Scubbabisto 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
Fencer: The Chinese symbols from Alpine Electronics Beijing font, whose international set your current xiangqi pieces most resemble, has a nice set of traditional Chinese characters, as well as alternate internationalized pieces.

Would it be out of place, as you consider variants for xiangqi, to mention that Korean chess janggi is a lot of fun and is similar but not identical to xiangqi.

See http://www.chessvariants.org/oriental.dir/koreanchess.html
for rules and http://www.chessvariants.org/oriental.dir/koreanchess2.html for a nice set of piece characters.

30. Elokuu 2005, 22:58:46
bobwhoosta 
Otsikko: Query.
I was just thinking, is it possible to have a position in which the two players conspire to repeat the position? I mean, if someone moves to attack, and a player has several choices and so is not forced to repeat, but his move forces a repeat so that the first player does not lose material/initiative, does the onus fall on the first or second player to stop the repetition? I suppose I've answered my question, the first player since he began the repetition, but it is an interesting to think about.

31. Elokuu 2005, 09:28:16
kleineme 
Otsikko: Re: Query.
Muokannut kleineme (31. Elokuu 2005, 09:29:26)
bobwhoosta:
Hi,
the rules about repetition can become rather complicated. If you want to delve into the details you may go to the bottom of http://www.geocities.com/xqlearner/manual/rule/index.html where you can download an english translation of the Asian rules. Which can be different from the Chinese rules ;)

As a direct reply I want to say four things:
1) If the two players want a draw then they can agree upon a draw, they do not have to conspire to repeat moves ;)
2) Usually you are allowed to repeat moves which do not consist of checks and chases.
3) Usually the player who starts the repetiton has to deviate.
4) Usually you are allowed to attack protected pieces repeatedly.

1. Syyskuu 2005, 22:12:34
tedbarber 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
Fencer: itsyourturn.com uses traditional Chinese Chess Symbols and names.

2. Syyskuu 2005, 12:45:26
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
tedbarber: So what? This is BrainKing :-)

4. Syyskuu 2005, 19:38:47
Fencer 
Otsikko: Chinese symbols
Please, it's not necessary to ask me individually to add Chinese symbols to the Xiangqi pieces. When I have time for it, I'll do it. Everything has its priority.

6. Syyskuu 2005, 16:26:53
tedbarber 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
Fencer: I know;but I just thought maybe you wished to know what the pieces looked like;no offense was meant.

6. Syyskuu 2005, 18:30:27
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
tedbarber: It wasn't against you, I just wanted to reply to about 10-12 messages of the same kind I've received.

10. Syyskuu 2005, 13:43:58
jian 
Otsikko: Re: About the Chinese symbols
Fencer:
If you receive so many messages on this subject, it is thus that
corresponds to a real need.

13. Syyskuu 2005, 12:03:10
Fwiffo 
<jian> I don't know if you have created the symbols already, but at www.clubxiangqi.com they have very nice symbols. The nicest I have seen thus far.

13. Syyskuu 2005, 14:06:16
jian 
Otsikko: Re:
Yes, I sent Chinese symbols to fencer but it cannot use them
without modifying them.
I thus proposed others of them to him but it did not answer me. Consequently, I do not insist any more.

13. Syyskuu 2005, 21:29:57
Fwiffo 
<jian> I see. Well, I guess when the time is right Fencer will bring up the subject again. I have some experience with making symbols on the pixel-level, to get the right size. Reducing the size often 'blurs' the picture.

P.S. It's better to call male persons 'he' instead of 'it'. Otherwise they might be offended and refuse to answer at all ;)

13. Syyskuu 2005, 22:35:11
Fwiffo 
<playBunny> Ok! I thought maybe there isn't a sex-specific pronoun in Russian. Hungarian people also call every-one 'he' instead of he/she etc.

16. Syyskuu 2005, 16:24:17
Fencer 
Otsikko: Chinese pieces
Please verify the pieces are correct, I am not sure because I don't speak Chinese :-D

16. Syyskuu 2005, 17:12:25
redsales 
Otsikko: Re: Chinese pieces
Muokannut redsales (16. Syyskuu 2005, 17:12:57)
Fencer: yes, basically correct. Two minor things, the kings, horses, chariots are simplified rather than traditional characters. Stylistically, it doesn't look as good and, as far as I know, no sets are produced with the simplified ones. But they are correct.

Also, at the top of the selection page, it says shogi rather than xiangqi.

16. Syyskuu 2005, 17:18:38
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: Chinese pieces
redsales: If there is a volunteer, I can send the pack of current pieces and he can change the simplified ones.

16. Syyskuu 2005, 17:35:21
redsales 
but from what I read, many people suggested text sets. Where did you get these?

16. Syyskuu 2005, 17:42:35
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re:
redsales: I've found them somewhere. But I was told by a Chinese guy that almost nobody uses traditional characters nowadays.

16. Syyskuu 2005, 18:32:47
tedbarber 
Otsikko: Re: Chinese pieces
redsales: you can get them at yutopian.com.

16. Syyskuu 2005, 19:14:52
Fwiffo 
<Fencer> Can you send the pack to me? I think I'm able to improve the pieces.

16. Syyskuu 2005, 19:27:11
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re:
Fwiffo: Sure, give me your e-mail address.

17. Syyskuu 2005, 06:14:23
redsales 
Otsikko: Re:
Fencer: well, they are common in Hong Kong, Taiwan, korea, singapore. But not in mainland China. However, traditional characters are almost exclusively used for chess sets, mostly for stylistic reasons

17. Syyskuu 2005, 08:11:22
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re:
redsales: Uh-huh, I see. Well, as I said, I've just provided a set of pieces and I don't have time to improve it. Fwiffo already received the images from me and hopefully he will do the job better.

17. Syyskuu 2005, 11:33:14
gringo 
Otsikko: Re: interesting endgame with zugzwang (20.8.)
Red is lost. Full defence in most cases is draw vs. one rook, but if one defender is gone the defending player is lost. So in your example black can sacrife a rook for any defender and will win the game. Just try it out at home or try rook vs. two guards at http://www.stosszahn-franken.de/xq-kurs/uebung-lw2.html

17. Syyskuu 2005, 11:37:18
gringo 
Otsikko: Chinese Chess notation system
Hi Fencer,
did you see my message at the Bug Tracker section?
http://brainking.com/en/ReadBug?bgi=528
It's a small change, but senseful, because otherwise you would have invented another notation system, which nobody else uses.

17. Syyskuu 2005, 11:50:27
Fencer 
Otsikko: Re: Chinese Chess notation system
gringo: Sure, it can be easily changed. But I am not sure if I fully understand. You write "from 1 to 0", didn't you mean "from 1 to 10" instead?

17. Syyskuu 2005, 12:30:28
gringo 
Otsikko: Re: Chinese Chess notation system
It's the same. 0 is just shorter than 10, but you may use 10 as well, if you consider it to be less confusing.

17. Syyskuu 2005, 13:30:15
Fencer 
Done.

17. Syyskuu 2005, 23:33:37
gringo 
Great.

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