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7. Helmikuu 2011, 16:16:26
Chaos 
Otsikko: illegal moves
ok, so I made a startlist. Anyone who wants to be added (or removed) from the list, just post here or send me a message. I'll add the circumstances as soon as we have agreed how to describe it.

22. Marraskuu 2010, 10:37:13
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: apologies

Nothingness: don't worry about our game and best wishes to you!


Hope you're feeling better soon.


17. Lokakuu 2010, 16:47:25
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Finally !
Mikong: Good Luck to all! :)

8. Lokakuu 2010, 11:42:01
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: re: who knows other fast players?

SL-Mark: I'll make a post oin the tournamentboard, good idea. It's not really such extra hassle to send out invites since you have to send out messages to get players in anyway. You're right though; slow players will time out in the first round.


I can't change the set up of the tournament anymore- only starting date and info.


8. Lokakuu 2010, 11:10:05
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: re: who knows other fast players?
SL-Mark: having 100+ games is a choice... If they think they can keep up with this tournament they can enter - do give me suggestions!

8. Lokakuu 2010, 10:49:46
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: re: who knows other fast players?
Mikong: if he only plays 1 move per 5 days he'll time out straight away since the time limit is 1 day 6 hrs. I can ask him if he thinks he can play this fast before inviting him.

8. Lokakuu 2010, 10:47:29
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Who wants to be in and who knows other fast players?
dAGGER: you do have the weekend days (you can choose 2 days for that). If you play at least once on the other days it's good.

7. Lokakuu 2010, 15:01:46
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Who wants to be in and who knows other fast players?
dAGGER: just sent you an invite and love to have you in, only you're still in the second round of Sabotage League - Small Fast Espionage - #2... Become a member so you can join :)

7. Lokakuu 2010, 00:07:49
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Suggested players,
Mikong: Done, thanks for the suggestions!

7. Lokakuu 2010, 00:05:18
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Who wants to be in and who knows other fast players?

SL-Mark: Given the fact you're so new and have little faith in your talent I thought I'd give the tournament a modest size, but ok, if you insist I'll give you more competitors to improve your strength


I've deleted the old draft and created a new one, hope I didn't make any mistakes there. Do sign up (again)!


 


6. Lokakuu 2010, 17:52:21
Chaos 
Otsikko: Who wants to be in and who knows other fast players?

Let me know so I can send invitations. Yes, I made it invite only so we really have a fast tournament. Also want to know about any new promising talents playing fast.


6. Lokakuu 2010, 17:29:02
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: single elimination?
dAGGER: time to become a member, pawn, so you can enter this new tourney! ;)

5. Lokakuu 2010, 21:48:38
Chaos 
Otsikko: single elimination?
We could set up a small single elimination tournament, this is a lot faster. We'd best choose small fast i guess, so pawns who enter this one are ready for the next tournament once it starts. How about it?

5. Lokakuu 2010, 21:46:11
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
Tian-Xian: We want to have players move at least once a day so the tournament doesn't take forever. If you can play several times on other days no one will make a problem of you not moving on sunday.

19. Syyskuu 2010, 20:18:22
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: New tournament

Mikong: I'm in, and want to help recruiting players, only I'm leaving for 2 weeks tomorrow. I can help after that.


In the mean time, maybe other league players can make Mikong feel welcome in the league, and maybe suggest players for the tournament?


see you all in a few weeks!!!


19. Syyskuu 2010, 12:58:21
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: New tournament

Mikong: Hi Mikong, welcome on the espionage bord, great to see you here :) What kind of tournament did you have in mind? Small espionage isn't popular to all espionage fans because of the length of the game. It's much slower than small fast or open fast espionage. Though I do believe there are some who especially like the variant, I think Nothingness and Altermann do and the Alchemist and I believe Sandoz still likes the variant. I'd be willing to join as well.


Also, we haven't had a serieus small espionage competition for some time which would be a good arguement for doing it. The biggest problem would be not just the length of the game, but the length of the entire tournament. We've been discussing the issues on that matter on this board. Maybe a single elimination would take some of the problems and inviting only those who don't play extremely slow.


What are your thoughts on the matter?


18. Syyskuu 2010, 18:48:53
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
SL-Mark: who ever told you I'm friendly?

18. Syyskuu 2010, 17:48:19
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
cookie monster: You're already playing? What swap did you make?

18. Syyskuu 2010, 17:07:50
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
Nothingness: it would be difficult to tell before set up because in that case the opponent would make a set up based on that, giving their information back, leading to a change in set up from the 1st person etc. I'd say you make the set up and give the information before the 1st move.

18. Syyskuu 2010, 16:02:12
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:

SL-Mark: it was your own proposal


Anyway, we each know 7 pieces, right? :)


I only have 1 problem: I don't think I can play two such games at the same time because of the tracking. If it's okay with you I'll play Eric first. Shouldn't take that long given the way and frequency of our play.


18. Syyskuu 2010, 13:43:15
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
SL-Mark: In addition I'll show 2 of my recons for your four 2s.

18. Syyskuu 2010, 00:38:40
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
cookie monster: as said, I'd happily take a shot  Only problem is you can't reveal them without me revealing my recons. Or I'd have to make an enormous amount of notes. I'm willing to try though. After my holidays an invite will be waiting :)

18. Syyskuu 2010, 00:32:53
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
Muokannut Chaos (18. Syyskuu 2010, 13:27:47)

SL-Mark: I don't care about the mines anymore. In my early days I've walked into one of Sandoz' (when he was still hageroff) mines with a 5 after deducting this piece couldn't be backed up by a sab or 5. Eversince I know how to deal with unmovable pieces.As for your offer, I'm more interested in your 4s. How about your 4s and your base?


18. Syyskuu 2010, 00:27:46
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
SL-Mark: hmmm, still I think even Eric's recons can't fly through 1s so I'd happily take a shot if he shows me half his army.

18. Syyskuu 2010, 00:14:29
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
SL-Mark: Oh, I thought he wanted to show half of all his pieces if in return for the 1s. I thought it was a brave thing to do indeed.

17. Syyskuu 2010, 23:50:41
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
cookie monster: Even if you know all my 1s it would be hard to get around them! I think I could stop/get rid of your recons using my 1s, some 2s and some of my recons. I'd go for the deal!

16. Syyskuu 2010, 14:56:56
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:

SL-Mark: Would you show me your five 1s and I'll show you where one of my 5s is located?


I wouldn't. First because you know five of my pieces and I would only know one, but also because you know all of one sort: you know all of my 1s, so none of my other pieces can be a 1. I would only know one of your 5's, so I cannot conclude anything about the rest of your pieces.


22. Elokuu 2010, 15:01:10
Chaos 
Otsikko: cute name :)

cookie monster: Why the need to change? just curious.


And how about the Open Espionage League Brain prize Tourney? you'll continue playing that one, right? Would be a shame to lose a possible winner because of an identitycrisis.


6. Heinäkuu 2010, 12:53:36
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: team tournaments
Sandoz: The problem is only paying members can become part of a team. There was a plain espionage teamtournament starting quite some time ago, but plain espionage is a bit too slow for me. I would join fast mini or open fast. I'd love a teamtournament!

 

Maybe with the new espionage players who joined the beginner's tournament and with players like you signing up for a paid membership we could get a good tournament going!

20. Toukokuu 2010, 15:14:43
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: game pieces
Nothingness: you could use simple thick carton squares. On one side you have a questionmark, on the other side the espionage piece. I admit it wouldn't look attractive, but it's simple and effective. The only difference with the real game is that you know when your opponent detected a piece.

17. Toukokuu 2010, 15:42:14
Chaos 
Otsikko: draw?
Mark, Eric, why did you agree to a draw in your game in the Open Sab Brain prize tourney? Didn't look over to me at all!


6. Toukokuu 2010, 10:53:42
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: tourney
AbigailII: what Nothingness means is that his opponent waits 2 weeks before moving. I've played Nothingness often enough to know he doesn't wait 2 weeks. If your opponent waits 2 weeks it's impossible for you to play more than twice a month and there's nothing you can do about it which is very frustrating indeed.

 

The problem is that if it's in the rules, someone is allowed to move slow. You can ask your opponents if they want to move faster, but they don't have to.

4. Toukokuu 2010, 10:30:54
Chaos 
Otsikko: teamtournament
Nothingness: I love the idea of a teamtournament. But we do have the problem that pawns can't enter the fellowships...

30. Huhtikuu 2010, 12:51:22
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Sounds like school yard psyche
Muokannut Chaos (30. Huhtikuu 2010, 13:07:47)
Dark Prince: I agree completely with Dark Prince on the time tactics. Why stalling to try to get your opponent out of balance? Your opponents will probably think you've been away or are just anxious for the next move. They're not occupied with your reasons for delaying.


Nothingness, I understand you want clear rules and fast games, in that case it's best not to stall yourself. The way you explain situations you want to avoid make it seem you create them yourself as well. I understand you don't, but the discussion is quite misleading.


Maybe just go back to what format is best? It will always stay a problem. For a real fast tournament you'll have to accept time outs.

29. Huhtikuu 2010, 14:46:48
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
Nothingness: if you think like that in a game against me you'll be puzzled all the time . I sometimes I make clicks instead of moves because I don't want to think while I really should, and sometimes I can't move in the rare case I actually have a plan.

29. Huhtikuu 2010, 11:30:22
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
AbigailII: you should have some extra time to allow for a day away now and then. In a tournament with several rounds you will be away at some point. I go to an internet cafe on holidays every other day when I'm in a tournament. But I won't go every day. And sometimes there's a day when you simply can't move because you travel all day or visit someone.

 

We'll just have to accept a few months for a round I think. I can live with that.

27. Huhtikuu 2010, 10:36:29
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: version
Nothingness: open small = small fast?

24. Huhtikuu 2010, 12:09:50
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
Nothingness: You can always track down the piece you've seen once by looking at the move list on the right, so the pieces might as well stay visible. You could replace the vulcanoes by these grey spots. This way you can move the pieces already seen without further revealing and choose to reveal more to gain more movement freedom. I like the idea!

23. Huhtikuu 2010, 11:32:49
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Still looking for game variations?
happy hermit: sounds great! Will there be speed limits? What will the strength of the engineer be?

 

I was thinking of a 'super' recon/spy able to see all pieces in the row and column it stands in. The view is blocked by vulcanoes, by bombs and by 'block pieces'. Maybe the 1s could be the blocking pieces?

10. Huhtikuu 2010, 12:52:11
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: new version
Muokannut Chaos (10. Huhtikuu 2010, 12:53:23)
Justaminute: I don't agree with you. As some of you may know I have quite an agressive style. When I attack I use the fact that my opponent cannot move back. For example when I move a piece of the same strength right where my opponent's piece came from. When my opponent can endlessly move back and forth to escape there are several ways of attacking I can't use anymore. Like when the opponent moves between 2 bombs, now it takes 2 moves before this player can move out again. Also if both players keep moving back and forth the game ends in a draw. This will happen a lot.

I think this rule is one of the strong features of espionage. Changing this in an added new version would be very confusing.

10. Maaliskuu 2010, 17:31:43
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: happy hermit
Sandoz: message from Eric on 18. January 2010:



<img>happy hermit <img>

</b>Subject: Re: Small Fast Espionage #2

I just withdrew . . . I seem to be on a time-out binge again and rather not impose on anyone else.  :)

Have fun all.

Guess he hasn't got time for BK at the moment. He'll show up later.
</div></div>

10. Maaliskuu 2010, 14:31:58
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: happy hermit
Sandoz: I can see he hasn't been on the site for a month. This isn't new for Eric. He'll probably show up again within a few months.

5. Helmikuu 2010, 18:11:06
Chaos 
Otsikko: saved information #2
Santa's (Santa Claustrophobia for those who remember) Tower:

Tower squares. When spies/recons move into a tower square they can see 2 squares around, any other piece can look 1 square around.

Choice in pieces for set up:

Out of a certain selection you have the choice of picking your set.

Piece that can remove volcanoes (Amit's idea):

One saboteur can remove exactly 1 volcano.

5. Helmikuu 2010, 13:50:41
Chaos 
Otsikko: saved information
Muokannut Chaos (5. Helmikuu 2010, 13:55:02)
I've looked through my documents and was surprised to found quite some old sabotage material. Lists of League players, photo's of players who allowed their pictures to be in future sab albums, ideas etc. No stats though.

I did find these thoughts for a cannon piece:

Lou: Cannons: Two immobile cannon pieces, that are able to fire one or two (two moves) squares ahead. Firing two squares away requires the first square to be empty. Also, once a cannon fires, then it cannot fire on the very next turn [takes time to reload a cannon]. - Cannons: Two immobile cannon pieces, that are able to fire one or two (two moves) squares ahead. Firing two squares away requires the first square to be empty. Also, once a cannon fires, then it cannot fire on the very next turn [takes time to reload a cannon]. Cannon piece, staying immobile, but able to "fire" at a square or two (2 moves) directly ahead (cannon vulnerable to any piece and not able to fire two consecutive turns).

The Limbaugh Express: You can use it only once every 4 moves and cannot use it in the first 10 moves. The cannon should be able to hit any square in the first 9 rows in Open Rush and first 7 rows in Mini Open Rush (Also it can shoot over pieces just like a real cannon. The cannon must be placed up front on row 3 and cannot be moved and any piece can disarm the cannon. We should be able to start the game by setting up any of our pieces in the first 5 rows like Crazy Screen Chess. But the cannon must be set up in the 3rd row.

I'll try to bring more later today.

5. Helmikuu 2010, 12:58:52
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re:
Muokannut Chaos (5. Helmikuu 2010, 13:00:19)

 

But it's 'no longer available'. Yahoo has shut down GeoCities completely.

 

5. Helmikuu 2010, 11:12:42
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Sabotage page....
Nothingness: sorry, they're not! It's horrible. At some point Yahoo removed geocities, I learned about it when I tried to log in after I hadn't been there for quite some time.

26. Tammikuu 2010, 01:14:18
Chaos 
Otsikko: multiplayer game
SL-Mark: The problem with the 4 player individual game is that the site hasn't got the options for multiplayer games yet. Way back I asked Patrick Chu at IYT about possibilities for a 4-player game and he said he would have to change too much in the workings of the game. IYT and BK are set for 2 player games. 2 vs 2 is still the same game, same board, only the moves change between the teamplayers.

25. Tammikuu 2010, 12:26:58
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: food for thought:
SL-Mark: I don't see why you'd choose a sab instead of another 5?

24. Tammikuu 2010, 10:40:02
Chaos 
Otsikko: New features
Nothingness: I would love 4- player espionage: individual and/or 2 vs 2. The latter should be more easy to establish. 2 vs 2 means the game itself doesn't have to change, only the moves would have to be distributed in a different way.

 

I like the corner variant like we got at IYT.

 

I don't care much about colors.

16. Tammikuu 2010, 16:47:55
Chaos 
Otsikko: Re: Help for recruiting Beginner's tournament
Tian-Xian: I trust you :) what's his name? I'll send him an invite

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