the brainking rules of backgammon are readable. and even if the
bk-logic would allow violating them, I'd surely not consider doing so.

but the questionable exception-rule is not written down, instead
only hoovering in somebody's assumption which seems odd here
where I live ... (to correct other assumptions met) - details about
(as repeatedly pointed) cAn be viewed at the backgammon board ... ~*~

Just what I was about to say rod! Thanks :o)
It is really a subject for the backgammon discussion board.

I agree completely, Pyloric Valve. As I'm sure MOST backgammon lovers do too.

I DO see Danoschek's point, that technically HERE, it is not cheating.
But it is NOT the universally accepted version of backgammon. PERIOD.
I'm sure that since a majority of backgammon players here would prefer the universally accepted rules to be implement here, I'm sure Fencer will at some point do this. He is a busy man!
I have often wondered if he would consider putting the game back a move if both parties agreed that would be the fair thing to do. (Maybe they weren't aware of the rule, and if you mention it to them, they agree to it).. Just a thought.

here we have different rules, some even insist you cAn not put
more than 5 stones onto a single tacken and call that professional ...

it's a manner of agreement period.

for me people not respecting my free choice which die to use as first are
basically alogic - but I don't oppress and call them clueless or (ugh) amoralic ...

as for monopoly, to have adjustable rules should be possible, big deal ! ~*~

This discussion has veered into a very deep philosophical discussion on the nature of cheating the importance of rules. Let me be clear. Whether or not there is a glitch in the software, it is cheating by any definition to take advantage of a mistake. Period. There are no ways aroudn it unless you cheat and you require justification. There is now way in which you can call a game backgammon and not play both die every turn. That is the fundamental nature of backgammon. I defy anyone to find such a rule for backgammon anywhere that it is played seriously. As such, whether it is possible to lpay without using both die IS COMPLETELY BESIDE THE POINT. It's possible to shoot each other, that doesn't mean that isn't illegal. Possibility is never a justification for doing the wrong thing. I challenge every player on the site to never use a bug to their advantage. It not only tarnishes your reputation but it makes you an awful player because you have not learned to play backgammon and as such makes you worse than someone trying hard to do the right thing even though they may be tempted to cheat.

California man, the matter here isn't really one of backgammon, but rather rules, software, and sportmanship.

I have to agree with you. I checked the posted rules on backgammon here on this site, and there is no mention of the deviation from the game what one would expect to play as backgammon.

In fairness, the one-die deviation should be posted in the on-site backgammon rules until the game deviation is fixed, if ever. It took IYT awhile to get their backgammon software up to snuff. BK is a young site; I'm sure it will take awhile for everything to get worked out here.

Since the software allows for only one die to be played when bearing off, it's not really cheating when one exercises that option, but it is not very sporting. I personally would never exercise that option.

For the short period that BK has been online, Fencer & company have done an outstanding job. We just need to be patient for perfection. :-)

btw, you do have the highest backgammon rating at BK, so expect some unsportsmanship from those who can not defeat you otherwise, and just don't play them anymore in social games. Some people just don't take losing well.

Congrats on your outstanding backgammon BKR.

peace

you're wrong not only at which board to use for your objection,
as already mentioned - there's a debate from several weeks ago ...

and here, indeed it is allowed ... rules are
a manner of agreement and not of a personal view ... ~*~

You cannot use just one dice and have a acompleted play,Nowhere in the world is that allowed, "Gold Token" and Daily Gammon have solved that problem of making just one move, the game will not progress, Also, To allow time to run out when you are losing should cost the quitter points and the winner plus points.....I can't see myself paying to play here when these problems continue to exist, Also, the scoring system here is "for the birds".........california man,,,,,,,

I am sure Linjon complaining does not help to get the site better and faster, but messages after a pretty rude answer from Fencer as "applauding" and "well said" and messages like that sure don't help

Thanks Jason, thats pretty much what I was trying to say! If the game allows it then it can't be classed as true cheating. It may be the other player has never played it before and doesn't know any different.
Anyway this really belongs on the backgammon board :o)

i think there has been a big debate about this a few months back harley . some people say its cheating if you dont use both dice ,others dont agree . me personally always use both (even if it would lose me the game ) but if my opponent didnt use both dice then i feel i couldnt call them a cheat .. because the game allows it . just my opinion ;)

I think Fencer is aware of the dice problem in gammons? I'm sure I've seen it discussed on the backgammon board, but I could be wrong.
If this is the problem then its not eactly cheating... well, it is but the programme here allows it (for now), so it can't be helped.
I meant if there is an outside programme being used or anything like that. If it is just a disagreement on the dice then its best sorted with a polite message to your opponent. It may be they had not noticed the move?

yes you can delete a game without affecting your bkr ,

can someone tell me for sure, if you can delete a game after just 1 move, without penalizing your rating?
thx. ellie

there is a way to cheat in the gammons, by not using both dice when you can by swapping them, there is a bug in the gammons here. like harley said, it should be reported to fencer.

I guess if its serious cheating then Fencer should hear about it. He is the owner of the site. But I'm not sure how you can cheat on here?

To whom do I report such matters? califorina man

Bernice - I was happily playing on the site at 8.56 am (your message time); it is always the best time of the day. Hardly ever get any time-outs from now until noon.
So maybe it could be an Aussie problem; does Whisperz have your kind of problems?

Wait a minute.

Fencer: Game id# 185618 is back on my games to play again, LOL. When you get a chance could you please fix it? Or if it would be easier I'll just move a piece out then back in again... hmmm... would that work? Thanks :o)

to the 49 people that are waiting for me to have my turn...Im having terrible problems accessing any sort of games, as probably a lot of other people :(....love this site, but???....Fencer this is the main BRAINKING.COM page, and im afraid i cant see here an explanation of what is going on....the general chat board is way out of my depth ( reading wise)...too many messages...sorry

Fencer: I made the move again, however, it is still showing on opponent's turn to move, instead of a win.

Crissie: Try it again.

Fencer (or anyone): could you please look at game id# 185618? I already moved all of my pieces to win but it is still allowing moves. :o)

Fencer was accused of making an "inflammatory" remark (my words and spelling) about a user that posted a remarkably lackluster compaint. I think it is outrageous that anyone would bother the poor man after the last few days, especially when they play for free. You will have to scroll back a ways, there is a lot of litter on the highway

I agree ... 0:) ... indeed I second the best wishes for our czech coders
and - as a sidenote - also for the underpowered mirror-industry ... ~*~ :D

annabria . whats for free ?

As a sidenote, I also thought that an ignore button would be helpful for the future maintenance of a civil site. But I have sadly changed my mind. An ignore button would still mean that I play at a site with the aforementioned boards, and that just is not gonna happen. So, have to agree with a few, it will be interesting to see how all this plays out, my best wishes and full bets lie with Fencer.

<actually I agree that envisoning the future of bk boards like them
of IYT is frosting ... all those people who know exactly who is so
bad for a site and are so concerned about. btw those too who cannot
stay to a subject without winding up to inessential personal attacks as
it recently also happened here, at the feature-request board ... >:) ... ~*~

I think Fencer has done a pretty good job of addressing all these problems. But because of an assortment of people, very much in the minority at this point in this sites history, and a strong desire of a good gaming site, this site, in my humble opinion, is in trouble. And anyone that may disagree, please go read the general chat site at IYT and envision the future here if something is not done about that problem alone. Why do you all automatically suppose that Fencer and Liquid wish to continue to deal with that problem and continue to provide a free gaming environment on their own. And nothing comes for free, unless money is being made in another place to cover it.

One thing is probably for sure: Fencer IS addressing the problems the site has experienced and IS taking action to correct these problems. Who knows all the things he and Liquid are doing behind the scenes. Fencer KNOWS about the complaints. He's probably tired like the rest of us hearing people offer the same complaint over and over. Just chill out and eventually things will get better and better. For the most part, I get on this site most times I try. If it's down, it's down. It's not my life and I can do other things and come back later. I suspect this is what most do.

I think Fencer was right on with his comments and from the responses I read, so did a lot of others here. Harley is right, this site is better than any other, even with its problems.

tonyh
yes i get terrible problems too some times worse than others i do have highspeed connections , yesterday i managed over 600 moves ( i was on here for 20 hours) if there was no problems with the site i would have easily done 1500 moves ,
ps some days i dont sit here and wait for it to come back on and do only a few moves (i find something else to do ;)) . )

Rouge--- I must agree with you,,I played here as a pawn until I got "Hooked" on the site,,,I enjoy this site so much,,,I sent in my membership fee to "Help" me play my games better & easier... If you enjoy playing here,,,send in your "measley" membership fee & feel good about helping to support the site... :)

Hi Tony :o)
This has been said before, and for players with hi speed broadband connections its possible to get through a huge amount of games in a very short space of time. Especially for games that need little consideration like backgammon and battleboats.

I wonder whether any of the top five most active players, all with moves over 600, are experiencing any problems? If they are, how do they manage?

linjon : Fencer is no less human than anyone else. I will not speak for him, but obviously he knows the status quo here, so what's the point of these complaints? It is interesting to note that the vast majority of those who say they will not become a paying member because of access don't consider it a big enough problem to quit coming here.

I'm sure Fencer is working hard on the problems here. I didn't say he wasn't and I have read the info page.And I'm also sure he does get tired of the complaints.But the fact remains the good comes along with the bad in business and regardless of how mad or frustrated he may get at the complaints,it is still no excuse for rudeness and surely like I said not a way to win new customers...I'm sure it's frustrating to all not to be able to get to the site along with the other problems for both paying and non paying customers...

linjon, Fencer answers many messages every day about the accessability of this site and other complaints. I don't think its very surprising he gets fed up answering the same gripes day in day out.
He set up another page (BrainKing.info) to explain to everyone why the site is having these problems and all the answers are here. There is a link to this site on the main page, it answers all questions and he cannot say any more than what is here for all to read.

The problems here are being addressed, and a new server will be provided very soon, it is just a matter of time before you will be able to access this site first try, every time.

Fencer IS interested in what people say, he takes note of all suggestions posted on the feature request board, and where possible he implements them. I personally have never met a site owner who listens more than Fencer, and if he gets fed up with complaints about things he has explained time and time again then I really don't blame him. If you have a complaint about access and want personal attention about it them email me, I will do my best to explain and will listen and sympathise with all problems. I have the time to do this, Fencer does not.

One last thing, I strongly disagree, this site is way better than any other!! ;o)

I'm sure Fencer listens to criticism - as long as it's constructive. Whining never did anybody any good (ask my eldest daughter!) and just causes irritation and annoyance. It doesn't solve anything.

This may not be the board to post gripes,But I read what Sir Pussycat said and your answer Fencer and if I post on another board you may not know what I'm talking about...Your comment was rude and uncalled for and I feel was aimed solely for him being a non paying member.But, his statement is true. Why pay for poor quality service? Being in business,surely you should realize,along with the happy customers or should we say tolerent customers also comes dissatisfied ones also.Sir pussycat did say his wife was a paying member and he is a potential customer...Your remarks sure are not a way of winning customers,and if we all had the answers to the problems,don't you think we might be running our own game site.People gripe at poor service at just about anywhere,resturants you name it.What makes this immune? And I know if you don't like the service move on. This is a good site.But it does have it's problems and he has a right to say so and you should be interested in what people think,even if it's not patting you on the back as so many have done.Like I said it's a good site but not any better then any other.This is just my opinion

that's an expression after facing numerous, seemingly chained events ... :")

I doubt though that it's valid to let it cumulate in an impression, paid
members are having an advantage at stalling games for what purpose ever,
although I don't know shaggath, someone who's won 50 tourneys already,
seems very unlikely depending on stalling to keep high ratings ... ;)

I admit, also I sometimes use a certain timing to have a slight influence on
my lost points ... i.e. first I lose a couple of inevitably gone games, then I
finish all wins of the same game-type that I might have delayed a bit before.
>:) results in minimally lesser losses in my ratings ... :D

indeed 2 months for 10 moves is slow.
but actually cAn happen during holiday time.

for moving each day preferably I do agree as well,
but if my opponent has more than 120 games I don't expect it.

I suggest avoiding tournaments with a timerange of more than 3 days
refering to your preferences as I understood them ... good luck ... :) ~*~

I don't want to attack anyone or cause a flame war but I feel I must do this. I recently finished a 2 game Line4 match with an unnamed player that started on June 19. The first game, a win for me, was completed June 19. The second game lasted until August 24, ending in a timeout by the other player. The game had a 5 day limit and only lasted 10 moves yet it took over 2 months. I make my moves when I get them and always move within 24 hours of my opponent's move. The reason this game lasted so long is vacation. Other player used many vacation days, at least 15, and I ask is it right that players who pay more can stall losses to keep high ratings and rankings with their 30! vacation days? Nothing against the other player as she has a lot of games at a time and she's not the only one who does this. Also, there's a bug in the game history in the profiles. It is showing the date of the first game's completion not the match completion.

Sir Pussycat, you could try general chat, you are free to post what you like there (within reason of course!). It isn't specifically FOR gripes, but I suppose if you feel you must post on this subject, then that would be the place.

You said this is not the place to air Gripes. Which DB is for gripes? I feel all people who use this site should be aware of or have available to them the feelings of others here. =^..^=

Well said, Fencer!

<applauding!!!>

You go Fencer and Harley!!!!

nuf sed!

:o( Sorry Whisperz! (and Fencer)

Sir Pussycat, I won't delete your messages this time because then Fencers reply would stand alone, but really complaining will do no good.
We're all aware of the problems here, we all experience them and everything possible is being done to sort them out. More information on this can be found at the BrainKing.info site, where you can also find my email address. Feel free to message me privately with any gripes and I will lend a sympathetic ear. But this isn't the place. Thank you :o)

Amen to that, Fencer.