Artful Dodger: Name all the conservative outlets for news and views by any media.... how many hundreds are there.

As I said, this is the modern age, TV no longer has the dominance that it use to.

Czuch: Hard news is just one part of Fox news. Same as with the BBC showing 'hard news' as well as ed's and the like. IE interviews.

Simple.

Czuch: I love Mathews style,he's like a dog who won't let go of your pant leg

I think both sides of the fence were fairly represented in that discussion

Artful Dodger: Wallace has really improved,I think he values the respect of his peers.They are not replacing Colmes with a liberal counter, Beckel handles Hannity well,he'd be perfect.

Other than Hannity, Fox has removed some of the harder edge,but that's a logical move considering the shift in the political scene.

Jim Dandy: That is a good video, I have to admit that without ever hearing this guy before, i agree with everything he is saying, and my opinion is that Chris mathews looks like a complete idiot! But I can see there are 2 sides but I also believe that half the people are idiots, and I am not swayed that so many idtiots believe one thing or another, thing is everything this guy is saying is true, and the other guy is just a war hating bush hater givig the same ol blah blah blah, but then you probably will tell me the same about the guy that agrees with me

Jim Dandy: Are you saying that if someone was not at the rally they support Bush?

Well, obviously, no......

But the news showed a really close up shot of the event ( no wide screen from a helicopter or whatever) and then claimed "thousands" of people.... more likely somewhat less than 1000 people, and my watchful eye on media bias tells me that if they really had a huge rally they would have showed it in all its bush hating glory, and it would have been a true news event and story, and would have been legit, but instead they found a few hundred people with signs and had to throw it in there because they hate bush.... call me crazy

Czuch: I agree,I've said all I care to on the subject,but this is an interesting recent discussion

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/28262158#28262158

Artful Dodger: I'd say that Fox reporters get more than their share of praise when they show balance.Carl Cameron and Shepard Smith have been praised for their objectivity often in the last few months,and rightly so.

Jim Dandy: The divide kicks in when asked if it was worth the sacrifice.

I dont know how much energy any of us have left for this debate again.... but that is as honest assessment I have heard lately.

The point some people miss ( in my opinion anyway) is that we were already making a huge sacrifice in Iraq before the war, and I believe that even though we increased our sacrifice, in the short term, and the sacrifice came more in human lives than in dollars, that in the long term, decades even, we would have sacrificed a lot more than we will have now.

Again, one of my beefs with liberals, they tend to be too short term oriented... but with the time and money spent keeping an eye on Saddam (and then his sons after he died and then their sons) and the money spent to help the Iraqi people because saddam spent all their riches on palaces and such... I think we got a bargain... bottom line... we would have sacrificed more in both wasted time and money than we ever will bringing them some semblance of freedom and a chance to live their lives free from the aid of the US, and that is good for both them and us, a win win situation!

Czuch: Are you saying that if someone was not at the rally they support Bush?

Jim Dandy: ,I'd be more skeptical if the reporter focused on the great field goal kicked by the losing team


Thats what I am saying too!!! MSNBC is trying to focus on a small rally against support for Bush, and they neglect to mention that it is because of Bush that they have that right to protest, and that there are 24.98 million people out of 25 million who were not at that rally!

Czuch: I don't think you'll find many people (Democrat or Republican) disagreeing that Saddam was a bad man,or that Iraq wasn't exactly a happy place to live for most of its people.The divide kicks in when asked if it was worth the sacrifice.

Artful Dodger: not a chance, I dont even have to look at the link!

Artful Dodger: I don't know,when I watch hilites of a football game where a team was trounced say, 45-10,I'd be more skeptical if the reporter focused on the great field goal kicked by the losing team

Jim Dandy: I dont know for sure... but I happen to believe it is not low, probably higher there than here! Why only a protest by a few thousand when the country has 25 million people?

My personal experience is with Vietnam, it was the same there then as iraq is here now, basically. I have been to Vietnam as a tourist, and the overwhelming majority there were happy with what we tried to do for their country and their only regret was that we left them hanging in a lurch!!

Give Iraq 20 years and my bet is that you will find the same kind of sentiments as well!

Artful Dodger: George Bush, because of his aides policies???

Czuch: What's GW's popularity rating in Iraq? and if it's low,how many Iraq housholds are hooked up to American cable?

Czuch: maybe if Bush hadn't wanked off the entire time he was in office and made a mess with,well EVERYTHING HE TOUCHED,people would care...but he did,and they don't

Bush shoe story on MSNBC, and then they add and show a protest in Iraq with "thousands" (supposedly) of protesters, in a country with millions of people, this is a very small protest march at best, and doesnt represent the feelings of a majority at all... but they are trying to portray it like that, to make Bush look bad because they hate Bush, and they agree with the protest themselves.

cant any Bush haters see this bias???? If this were a pro bush rally in Iraq, they would either not cover it at all, or they would point out exactly how few people were involved and how insignificant it really was!

They also fail to mention that it is because of Bush that these people can even have the ability and freedom to make this kind of march!!!! Cant any bush hater see this and at least admit it does exists??

If this were some democrat who liberated them, thats all you would hear about, "look at these freedom loving people who now have the freedom to dissent, just like we do here, how lucky they are now, free from the dictatorship of evil saddam, able to finally enjoy the freedom that we democrats gave to them, arent we such good people!!!!!

Jim Dandy: yeah, thats a board I am sure you wont find much political coverage except how good looking Obama is....

Czuch: Maybe you're right,leave the tv,radio board to discussions of Laverne and Shirley

Czuch: forever!!?? ohhh,you are such a tease,you bad boy...I have my opinions on things,unfortunatly,I have 2 people,just like you to choose from when it comes time to vote...NOW,if everyone here would vote for ME next election,I shall run and become President so that I can get a nice blend of real idea into the country..I HATE that people say...Dems are THIS way...or Rep are THAT way...there were a few Rep's that got voted out this past election...not because they were doing a bad job,they weren't,BUT because your precious Bush dicked things up so bad...it was like a hunt just to get ANYONE with the title of Rep out of office...it's politics..it's nasty,I don't agree with the way things are done,but untill you vote me in,there isn't to much I can really do about it

Just looked, i didnt find the media board?

Jim Dandy: I didnt know we had a media board?

But I agree with Art, we are discussing political bias in the media, I guess it could work there as well, maybe we should paste some of this in there and see if we can get any fresh opinions?

anastasia: not you... I think you are a conservative in liberals clothing, you just havent realized it yet... haha that was me too not so many years back....

Just do me a favor... do you ever have the chance to find Neil Bortz on the radio? He is a Libertarian radio talk show host... listen to him everyday at work or wherever for a week or two, and I gaurantee you, you will be saying to yourself all the time, "hey, that makes sense" "yeah, thats logical" "oh I never thought about it that way"... he has a very unique way of taking a topic and just looking at it in a nice logical manner, no hate or rants or the like, just discussion of issues and current events in a thoughtful logical manner, with insights that will open your eyes and make you think about issues like you never did before, and if you can listen to this guy for a couple of weeks and then come back here and tell me you arent leaning more conservative than you ever imagined, i will leave you be forever!

Czuch: True,but many of these posts should be on the media board

hahaha, who was saying on gen chat that this board would be dead compared to them???? hahah we have over 400 posts already compared to what 25 over there in the same time???

Czuch: "except that you all tend to"..."but I never heard any of you" so,now you are generalizing ME into that catagory as well???

Jim Dandy: ;)

anastasia: I do sometimes, and i regret that.... sometimes its hard for me to separate the two, and to be honest, I am still trying to find out what a liberal is or what a democrat is? Thats why i get into trouble when i generalize too much and paint all libs and dems with a broad brush.... but I think you can do that with conservatives, we all have certain core things in common, and that is a problem fro liberals, because I dont see anything really in common except that you all tend to lean towards socialism, at least compared to conservatives, but I never heard any of you admit that, or anything really, just how you hate big business and you think with your hearts instead of your brains...

Jim Dandy: LMAO!!

Czuch: I supported Hillary,but being Canadian I can't vote in the USA

Czuch: Liberal/democrats I dont know how that one works... thats why I tend to argue more against liberals than democrats....
But it seems,at least to me from what you post that you attack Democrats and Liberals in the same breath,it seems,again,to me anywho,that you DO label them as one in the same.

Jim Dandy: I'm a fiscal conservative,social democrat,I might even lean Republican if they acted conservative,but that ship has sailed

Okay, thanks! But given the lack of choice, is McCain or Obama more conservative? Its hard to believe someone who says they would lean republican if they were more conservative and then voted for the least conservative senator(most liberal) in congress for president?

Artful Dodger: We are in full agreement on that

anastasia: so...in your opionion...are all democrats liberal?? and ALL rep. conservative??

good question.... I dont really know... thats why I generally tend to consider myself a conservative, so I guess i would say that all republicans are conservatives, but all conservatives are not republican, but they are probably not democrats either, more likely some libertarian types, which I probably fall under that more as well.

Liberal/democrats I dont know how that one works... thats why I tend to argue more against liberals than democrats, and i try to talk about conservatives rather than republicans, like I said, we have skin head tpyes that vote republican, but they are not really conservatives.

Artful Dodger: lookie!! I am not the only one that uses "whaa!!" hehehee

Czuch: Its all about personal responsibility... a conservative spills coffee on themselves and doesnt think about suing and doesnt blame the lawyers and ask for more government regulation of lawyers so that dumb people cant sue for being stupid.

A conservative doesnt get pregnant and use abortion as birth control, a conservative says i messed up and now I will have this child and deal with it, women do have a right to choose, and you chose it when you had unprotected sex.

A conservative doesnt say wha wha wha, there are no white people in that college, you have to let me in just because I am white.

Conservatives dont say "I just was born disadvantaged, its not my faulty, the government owes me something".

You give me an issue, and I will look at it from the perspective of personal responsibility and I will make my choice about that topic based on those conclusions... maybe right maybe wrong, but surly I take a stand and I believe and I act.... I dont see that in liberals, I would have way more respect for a far left nut with an honest belief in their principles, than I do some fence sitting take no stance middle of the road Im no liberal I believe in nothing!

Czuch: I'm a fiscal conservative,social democrat,I might even lean Republican if they acted conservative,but that ship has sailed

Czuch: so...in your opionion...are all democrats liberal?? and ALL rep. conservative??

Jim Dandy: just give me a quick list...

More free market or less?

More quotas or less?

More government control and regulation or less?

Less military or more?

Higher taxes or fewer?

more social programs or less?

get the idea? I dont think liberals have any core ideals, really? I think you are all over the map, one hates war, one hates abortion, one hates big oil companies, one wants a free ride, one wants the government to regulate regulate regulate, one wants.... there really is no one core message, is there?

Conservatives arent fractured like that, You give me a topic and I can formulate my opinions on that topic based around my core ideals, not based on some emotional or feel good bleeding heart, i dont think liberals can say the same, but I would love to be proven wrong?

Just once I would like to hear a lib politician sit down and look you in the eye and say, "what this country needs is more social programs to help the disadvantaged, even if it comes at the expense of taking money from other hard working people, we need a country based on the economic policies of Sweden, and 70% taxes to with it, we need the government to take control of the oil industry and education and the banks and the internet and most everything else, we need to get rid of the military and then the rest of the world will do the same,we need the government to do everything for its people, and admittance into education and jobs should not be based on merit but on quotas.....

Czuch: I'll be honest with you.The premis of your question is a lousy start point for any discussion I'd want to join.But good luck with your tossing of red meat

Jim Dandy: Hannity doesn't appeal or speak for your average Republican anymore than Olbermann speaks for your average Democrat


Sure he does... the fringe republican is the skin head racist, hannity doesnt speak to that fringe, he speaks to the common core values most average conservatives believe in, yes he points out problems with democrats when they conflict with what conservatives want, but for the most part, you dont hear Olberman speaking about what is good and right for this country except in the form of putting down Bush...

I can speak all day about what I want for this country without once mentioning what a loser I think kennedy or pelosi Et Al are or what losers liberals or democrats are, I dont know Olberman can?

Czuch: can anyone give me an answer to that???
I hear liberals say things like Democrats are for the little guy and republicans are for the big companies... or we need a change of direction for this country... or I am for abortion or all kinds of aloof platitudes like that... but unlike conservatives, I never really hear about over all general types of values or ideals?

You bring up socialism to most liberals and they run away like a fire just started, for that matter, you just bring up the word liberalism, and most people will tell you they are not liberals, no I am just an open minded independent who just happens to always vote democrat, or never votes for any republicans!


Maybe you Jim? You seem like a level minded liberal willing to stand behind your ideals? What are they, really? What do liberals stand for, if its not socialism and bigger government and spreading the wealth etc, what are the ideals of liberals, maybe I will become one too!

Czuch: I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that Hannity doesn't appeal or speak for your average Republican anymore than Olbermann speaks for your average Democrat.They both appeal to the "frothing at the mouth' factions, in my opinion

Jim Dandy: Well Hanity, the difference is that hannity tries to promote conservative ideals, maybe to a fault, but its different from Olberman, who doesnt really defend liberal values and ideals (do liberals even have any values and ideals?) as much as he just plays negative on Bush, and again hannity doesnt try to come off as some serious glasses wearing hard news journalist, but oberman really has some fantasy of himself that is far greater than the negative ranting guy that I see!

So, yes, I hate oberman way more than I like hannity, but hannity to me doesnt pretend to be anything than he is, and that is a mouth piece for conservativism

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., who was cited in a criminal complaint against Rod Blagojevich, went to the U.S. Attorney's office about alleged wrongdoers, including the Illinois governor, a Jackson spokesman said Tuesday.

Jesse Jackson Jr. reported in 2006 what he believed was a shakedown by the Illinois governor.

Jackson rejected being labeled with the term "informant" in a message to CNN contributor Roland Martin.

[...] In addition, two sources close to Jackson told CNN that, in 2002, Blagojevich -- then running for governor of Illinois -- solicited a $25,000 campaign donation from Jackson, which he did not get.

At the time, Jackson's wife, Sandi, was a candidate for the job of director of the state's Lottery Commission, a post she did not win, the sources said.

After Blagojevich took office, in early 2003, he told Jackson something to the effect of, "You see what $25,000 would have done?" the sources said.

In 2006, Jackson reported the incident, which he believed to have been an attempt at a shakedown, the sources said.

(V): If I was to name all the various outlets for conservative thought and republicans views in the USA this post would be very, very long.


You just dont get it do you????

Its about the hard news, you know, today so and so shot so and so... even Asia admits that all the news about helicopters (or whatever it was) going down all the time in Iraq, was not in sync with the reality she got from her friend who was there! So its not just about semantics IE leaving out that someone is a democrat, but also about the types of stories, IE you hate the war so all your stories are anything negative you can find. Not that the stories arent true (even though often exaggerated) but there is no balance, there were surly some stories in Iraq that pointed out something positive that was happening, but you would never catch MSNBC covering them.

The big problem that I see is that they do shape public opinions, and the point of news is not to impart your own biases into the public! If 9 or 10 news stations were behind the war in Iraq, instead of the other way around, and 9 of 10 stories showed positive results, and always ignored the negative, and always tried to portray the war in a positive light, and they promoted the American people to get behind the war effort, and always told us how great Bush is.... well this war probably would have been over long ago, but because these liberal news media types who hated Bush from day one, and who thought he stole the election, they could not wait to make him look bad at every turn (sometimes they didnt have to try real hard) and that reflected in their news coverage, and that reflected in public opinion and that reflected on why we are still in Iraq... dont worry about helping our war efforts, just so the evil vote stealer bush is mad to look bad!

Czuch: And your thoughts on his evil counter balance twin Hannity?