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13. Februar 2009, 07:21:49
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Bernice: He has the right to voice his opinions on matters he find important to him.  And many people don't know about the KM group so it's not relevant to them.  Maybe awsome and a few others share his interest in 911 and if so, they can discuss it and debate it all they want.  I'll stay out of it as I've made my thoughts clear on the matter and there is nothing else to say.

13. Februar 2009, 06:46:58
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: Third of Americans suspect 9-11 Government Conspiracy (2006)
awesome

13. Februar 2009, 06:21:38
Papa Zoom 

13. Februar 2009, 05:47:05
Papa Zoom 
On April 19, 1993, the American Jewish Committee released the latest survey on Americans’ knowledge of the Holocaust. This poll was taken by the Roper organization; it interviewed 993 adults and 506 high school students. The results showed that more than 1 in 5 Americans think that it is possible that the Holocaust never happened.

For you math whiz's out there, that's 20 percent.  A significant number.  So should we spend our time finding out the "truth" surrounding the Holocaust?  And did you know that over 25% of Israeli Arabs say Holocaust never happened.  Perhaps we're on to something here. 

It would seem that an increasing number of people believe that the Holocaust never happened.  It was a conspiracy perpetuated by high ranking government officials for making palatable the giving of the Land Of Israel to the Jews.  This fact must be significant (since it's an "increasing number" and therefore we should see out the truth).



13. Februar 2009, 05:28:42
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: Third of Americans suspect 9-11 Government Conspiracy (2006)
The Usurper:If I'm insulting and tiresome (isn't that insulting to say that???) then perhaps you can just ignore me. 

13. Februar 2009, 04:24:26
Papa Zoom 

13. Februar 2009, 04:15:31
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: Third of Americans suspect 9-11 Government Conspiracy (2006)
The Usurper:What they do indicate, however, is that a large and growing number of people, for some reason, doubt the official stories.

So what?   That is a meaningless fact.

My argument is that, the more one investigates, the clearer the picture becomes of government complicity in both the Kennedy assassination & the events of 9/11, which results in a continuous growth of awareness among the citizenry as information spreads.

Again, more nonsense.  But you give yourself away.  You are committed to your conclusion before all the fact are in.  And you cherry pick what you accept and what you reject.   In reality, you have no facts to stand on.  And you have a host of experts against you.  There's not one shred of evidence that supports your silly notion that 911 was an inside job.   In spite of all the google searches you've done, you have no proof.  There is nothing I have seen that leads me to believe there is any truth in your claims.  All I see is whacked out theories on the order of little green men living in your ash tray. 

12. Februar 2009, 20:50:22
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Pedro Martínez: You make a good point and I shouldn't lump all conspiracy theories together.  I happen to agree that global warming is a fraud and likely there are elements that are perpetuating the global warming myth for personal and corporate gain.  I have no idea how widespread any global warming conspiracy could be.  I see it as more a select few reactionsists, reacting to the normal global temperature fluctuations, and then many others simply jumping on the band wagon.  It's nice to belong to a cause even if it is based on bad science. 

12. Februar 2009, 17:59:52
Papa Zoom 
Tilpasset af Papa Zoom (12. Februar 2009, 18:00:44)

According to a 1999 Gallup </font>poll, about 6 percent of the population of the United States has doubts that the Apollo astronauts walked on the Moon. (Five percent had no opinion, while 89 percent believed the landings took place.)</font>


Translation:  6 percent of the population of the United States are complete idiots.  Five percent can't think, and 89 percent have reasonable intelligence.  </font>


This conclusion applies to all those other polls as well.</font>


400,000 people worked on the moon landing.  Lest we forget Occam's Razor, to subscribe to conspiracy theories is to subscribe to lunacy.  Occam's Razor states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.  </font>


So instead of the simple explanation that we did in fact land on the moon, conspiracy theorists breack with Occam and come up with this nonsense:  http://www.lycos.com/info/apollo-moon-landing-hoax-accusations--united-states.html</font>


The very same can be said about 911 conspiracy theorists.  They are out on a broken limb.  They have to weave a tangled web of impossibilities in order to make their theory work.  </font>


These people, when faced with direct evidence (such as plane parts at the Pentagon, witnesses testifying that it was a plane and was seen etc) will continue to spin and deny.  They won't be satisified until they can convince everyone they are right.  Even in the face of tons of evidence to the contrary.  Nuts.</font>


12. Februar 2009, 17:47:59
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: Third of Americans suspect 9-11 Government Conspiracy (2006)
The Usurper:   Since when did polls become scientific data?  Those are perhaps the weakest points in your argument. 

12. Februar 2009, 07:38:10
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: I like what this guy has to say about those that chase conspiracy theroies around.
The Usurper:  Or you truly have diseased thinking.  A sheeple.

12. Februar 2009, 07:10:25
Papa Zoom 
Emne: I like what this guy has to say about those that chase conspiracy theroies around.
IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

I want to forgo the niceties of the hot towel and go straight for the jugular on this one. My goal here is not to bust any of these four conspiracy theories; that has all been done much more effectively elsewhere. What I am trying to do here is to build a chain of evidence to show a progressively deteriorating epidemic of world-wide insanity, of truly diseased thinking -- not just a misunderstanding or difference of opinion but real, diagnosable mental illness. I want to get to that disease in a minute -- and the cause of it too -- but first let's examine what some people claim to believe in and the mountains of sand one has to carry in order to bury one's head so deep.

He really could have stopped here and that would have been enough for me.  I really think he captures it best in two words:  "diseased thinking."  That pretty much says it all.  So what do these diseased thinkers come up with? 

*We never landed on the moon, we faked it in a hollywood studio. 

*Oswald was framed.  President Kennedy was shot from the front but the body was secretly taken from Air Force One to Walter Reed Army Hospital where extensive surgery 'reversed' the trajectory of the wounds to make it look like poor patsy Oswald was the real assassin.

*The DaVinci Code

*Chemtrails: New World Order depopulation agenda

* Stephen King killed John Lennon. (Steve Lightfoot)
* WWII was staged. It never really happened. The Illuminati employed elaborate special effects, stage magic, and phony journalism to scare the world into pacifism. (Donald Holmes)
* The doomed Franklin Expedition was sent to the Arctic not only to find the Northwest Passage, but to secretly investigate UFO sightings that had been reported since the 1700s. The men were captured, experimented upon, and eaten by giant aliens. (Jeffrey Blair Latta)
* The 1939 War of the Worlds radio broadcoast was a psychological warfare study funded by C.D. Jackson on behalf of the Rockefeller Foundation, designed to find out how Americans would react to an enemy invasion. Funny... in a trailer for his mockumentary F is for Fake, Orson Welles did say the WoW broadcast had "secret sponsors". (Daniel Hopsicker)
* Aspartame, flouride, genetically modified foods, and vaccines are used specifically to keep us sick and open to suggestion, and/or as part of a secret depopulation plan designed by the world's elite.


Can you add to this list?  ;)

12. Februar 2009, 06:21:35
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Bernice:

12. Februar 2009, 05:39:19
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Jim Dandy:  I've never heard of him and now I know why.  He's one of the best arguments against any and all conspiracy theories.  IMO.  When I run into people like him, (Rosie is in his league) I know to stay away from anything they say. 

12. Februar 2009, 05:35:08
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: my heart goes out
Snoopy:  She's an unstable woman.  I think the state of California needs to consider if she's able to care for those kids.  Clearly she's not.  No money.  No home.  No nothing.  And the doctor that implanted those 8 embryos should have his licenses revoked. 

11. Februar 2009, 18:40:23
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: Rosie O'Donnell
Artful Dodger:And Usurper, you'll be judged by the company you keep.  Alex Jones is a thug, Rosie a blowhard.  As for the Rev, I don't know about him but I think all this nonsense has a lot to do with religion and Israel and end times and Armageddon. 

11. Februar 2009, 18:36:46
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: Rosie O'Donnell
The Usurper:um, Rosie O'Donnell's is a mental case.  She's a far left radical whacko.  Unthinking.  Illogical. 

11. Februar 2009, 18:35:10
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: No FEMA Camps?
The Usurper: Two of the alleged FEMA camps are right here in Washington.  One at the airport.  Yeah, hide it in plain sight.

And only the radical fringes see this FEMA threat and all the others are blind to it.

Not very convincing.  I building with a fence around it and barbed wire and a couple of army jeeps is not a concentration camp.  It's a warehouse.

11. Februar 2009, 07:53:26
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
The Usurper:  cept there are no FEMA camps.  But seriously, Alex went over the line in that video.  Someone should have deck the loudmouth.  So much for the free speech he claims to support.  Just that he probably means his free speech.  And those that he disagrees with he'll just shout down (as he did nonstop in the video).  Rush is better behaved that that.

11. Februar 2009, 07:43:22
Papa Zoom 
Alex Jones is a bit whacked.

He's a big mouth thug.  At least in this clip he is.  Lock the nut up in a FEMA camp.   

11. Februar 2009, 07:29:38
Papa Zoom 
Alex Jones MySpace

Wow, he says some pretty nasty things about Obama. 

11. Februar 2009, 07:25:05
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: After all, "unthinking" and "irrational" not only have established meanings in the dictionary but far less pejorative connotations.
The Usurper:  Don't be a whacko  

11. Februar 2009, 07:15:34
Papa Zoom 
Interesting pic of Alex Jones

I'm not making a statement as I don't know the guy.  But it is funny. 

11. Februar 2009, 07:10:39
Papa Zoom 
Emne: After all, "unthinking" and "irrational" not only have established meanings in the dictionary but far less pejorative connotations.
<span>mine are right from the dictionary:

whacko - 20 thesaurus results       absurd, asinine, bedlamite, bonkers, cracked*, crackers, daffy*, demented, deranged, dopey*, flaky*, foolish, fried*, giddy, half-baked*, idiotic, inane, insane, in the ozone, lunatic, mad, mental*, nuts, nutty*, off the wall, out of one's gourd, ridiculous, screwy*, silly, simple, touched, unbalanced, unhinged*, unsound, wacky, whacko, witless

hmmmm, I like a few of these.  I see nutty is in there so that qualifies.  So "whacko" and "nutty" are legit. 

As for perjorative, anytime you use words with the intent of belittling or disparaging, you are using those terms in the perjorative.  Calling someone unthinking or irrational is not a compliment.  It might be more sophisticated, but using "unthinking" or "whacko" are in the same camp.  The camp of the stupid. 

The words whacko and nutty can be used perjoratively or not.  The same is true for unthinking and irrational.  All have perjorative connotations.  It's a matter of opinion which may be "worse" and certainly it's a matter of style.   I think you're splitting hairs.  It's like arguing that there is a polite way to tell someone they are stupid morons as opposed to just saying it outright.  I dunno, an insult is an insult.  But I like sounding like a hack sometimes.  So whacko and nutcases and the like will do it for me. 

11. Februar 2009, 06:45:37
Papa Zoom 
Emne: see, I'm not alone
They are psychopaths with no conscience. And that is Obama in my opinion...a polished psychopath doing the bidding of elites.





11. Februar 2009, 06:21:34
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: No Plane hit the Pentagon?
The Usurper:"To claim, as I and others do, that 9/11 was an inside job, does not mean that we assuredly know all details"

except for the detail that it was an inside job of which you lack all known details.  So you come to the table with an a priori assumption.  At least those that you quote do.  You claim to be interested only in the "facts" and an "honest investigation."  Why investigate?  Seems you have it sewn up.  It was an inside job.  Now if you can just find the evidence to support your "facts." 

And BTW, Arabs don't live in caves.  That's a favored tactic of the fanatics on the conspiracy as well, paint the Arabs to look like a bunch of dolts and that ought to put doubt in the people's minds that they could have pulled it off.

Ummmm, didn't the left always claim that Bush is  a dolt?  He can't complete a sentence and isn't too bright?  And yet he was able to be at the head of such an elaborate hoax?  sure.

11. Februar 2009, 06:15:53
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
The Usurper:  I'm not a big fan of Rush.   But do like Hannity but don't watch him much.  O'Reilly is my hero.      My favorite is Glenn Beck.  He used to work for CNN. 

BTW, ad hominem is a useful rhetorical style and many people use it.  I try not to direct it at the people I'm debating but at those they support  (much like you did below although more subtlety).  When I said "dumber than rocks" I was referring to the democrats in Washington (specifically) and the democratic party more generally -- the leadership. 

I don't think that is any different (an not nearly as bad) as you (and those that hold to your nutty views) when you accuse President Bush of treason.  That is what you are saying.  You've already come to your conclusion and you've no problem with throwing that accusation around.   So you'll excuse me if I don't feel too bad for saying your theologian and any other conspiracy theorists you admire are nut heads, whack jobs, fruit cakes, imbeciles.  I could go on.  

I do disagree with this, "irrational, yet effective (for unthinking people) tactic of Ridicule."  for a couple of reasons.  For one, I think ridicule can be effective when one is dealing with lemmings.  But a better point is how hypocritical the statement itself is.  While discrediting those that would ridicule others, you ridicule them for being unthinking and irrational.  So you have fallen into your own hole. 

11. Februar 2009, 06:04:04
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: Did you know that there is
Vikings:  I wonder how far something like that could go?  And wasn't that matter settled anyway?

11. Februar 2009, 04:51:17
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Did you know that there is
<span>A lawsuit that accuses Congress of failing to investigate President Obama's birthplace before approving the Electoral College  vote giving him the presidency has been amended to include additional claims of rights violations, including unequal treatment, because Congress did such an investigation into GOP candidate Sen. John McCain.

11. Februar 2009, 03:27:20
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: This is the enemy the world faces
Bernice: Thanks.  You are so right about that!  I stand corrected.  I've been watching some old History Channel programs about WWII and you're right to say that Britain and Australia have magnificent troops as well that have contributed, and continue to contribute to the betterment of our world.  God bless all our troops!  They sacrifice greatly on our behalf.  

11. Februar 2009, 02:50:08
Papa Zoom 
Emne: This is the enemy the world faces
EVIL al-Qaeda chiefs are raping young male converts to shame them into becoming suicide bombers, it emerged yesterday.

The intense social stigma and fear of more gay sex attacks leaves Muslims prepared to die.


But still they whine about the real heros (us military) that fights these thugs. 



11. Februar 2009, 02:34:22
Papa Zoom 
climate change delusion

That's what psychologists are saying about a 17 year old that refuses to drink water.  Global warming is behind it.

11. Februar 2009, 00:42:31
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: The hot seat last night for Mr president

Bernice:   You're right.  It's a lot easier being the President when you're simply running for office.  Now that he's in, he'll have his hands full. 


Good intentions don't get the job done.  I know it's still early and he's likely to pick up steam as his term goes on.  But I doubt he'll every achieve the kind of bipartician support he's hoping for.  He's just too far to the left on important issues.


10. Februar 2009, 21:13:38
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: Global Warming
Czuch:   we need to increase global warming  !

10. Februar 2009, 18:04:26
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re: No Plane hit the Pentagon?

Bwild:   One has to go very deep into any conspiracy theory regarding 911.  It would be one thing if only one plane were involved, but 4?  And there are clear images that prove that flight 77 did in fact hit the Pentagon.  But conspiracy theorists want to keep the conspiracy alive so they discount the evidence.  Here's a good example:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTNRkb7AaQk&feature=related


For an opposing view this may be helpful:  http://911research.com/


I remain skeptable.  I agree it's fair to ask questions but if one poses those questions as conclusions, that's where I leave.  Asking me is one thing, telling me is another.  There are two sides to the story and I find the non-conspiracy explaination more credible. 


10. Februar 2009, 16:08:13
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
anastasia:  I just don't think there's any merit and I won't waste my time debating crack-pot theories.    But if you guys wanna have a go at it, be my guest. 

10. Februar 2009, 07:58:20
Papa Zoom 
Emne: “nutty theories” “unknown nut cases” “conspiracy theorists” “a bunch of land in a Florida swamp” “wacky theory” “conspiracy nuts”
Case in point:  Rosie O'Donnell

10. Februar 2009, 07:56:38
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
The Usurper:  apology accepted 

10. Februar 2009, 07:39:49
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Bernice:As there are dozens of books on 911 theories, I guess one should really read them all.  Amazon.com has 4 pages of books but most 911 conspiracy books are not sold on Amazon.  I would guess there are hundreds.  There are thousands of websites.  People love a conspiracy.

It just cracks me up that "experts" will disagree about a given idea but each one insists their view is the correct one.  They all say, "just look at the facts" but that is just plain stupid.  If two ideas conflict, either they are both false, or one is false and the other true.  So when competing ideas all claim to have "the truth" backed up by "the facts" one is better off going to the zoo and asking a baboon what he thinks.  He likely would stick his butt in your face which would make more sense than some of these wacky theories. 

10. Februar 2009, 07:31:09
Papa Zoom 
I have little to no interest in nutty theories by unknown nut cases that ignore real evidence and promote falsehoods.  People can believe what they want.  I say those that claim there was "no plane" at the Pentagon are simply nut cases.  And anyone who claims that the inept Bush administration was able to pull off a major conspiracy, blow up several buildings, cause 4 airliners  full of US passengers to crash after get volunteers to hijack the planes and then crash them  (and commit suicide--I'm almost convinced now!) AND NOBODY ON THE INSIDE HAS COME FORWARD TO TELL THE "TRUTH."  Can you say Watergate???

I think these conspiracy theorists are the same guys that just bought a bunch of land in a Florida swamp too.  Yeah, and Randi has proven Jesus never existed (even tho there is more evidence of Jesus' existence than there is evidence that Randi exists). 

Ever notice how after hundreds of experts in their fields testify to the truth about 911 (debunking the nut cases) and some refuse to believes the experts.  But along comes a guy that studied at a Bible college, has a wacky theory, and they listen to him and hang on his every word.  Can you say gullible?

Seriously, conspiracy nuts are people who cannot think for themselves.  They are irrational.  Be amused by them, but don't take them seriously.  Think man, think.

10. Februar 2009, 07:18:49
Papa Zoom 
David Ray Griffin:
still promotes "no plane" hoax,
promotes Holocaust deniers as credible sources
distrusts the hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw Flight 77 hit the Pentagon or cleaned up the plane parts afterwards



10. Februar 2009, 07:05:57
Papa Zoom 
Well at least now we know where you get your nutty ideas. 

10. Februar 2009, 06:09:20
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Vikings:

10. Februar 2009, 06:04:00
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Bernice:lol, I should update my post 

10. Februar 2009, 05:14:05
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Tilpasset af Papa Zoom (10. Februar 2009, 06:05:33)
Bernice:Well, according to some conspiracy theorists, Elvis is still alive, Katrina was started by a government controlled weather device, and the landing on the moon was faked in a Hollywood studio.   Look up on google and you'll find plenty of websites that claim the holocaust never took place.  (over 3 million hits)

Some of these same theorists have a membership here.    and here too!

10. Februar 2009, 04:55:44
Papa Zoom 

10. Februar 2009, 04:48:15
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Re:
Vikings:

10. Februar 2009, 04:32:30
Papa Zoom 

10. Februar 2009, 04:31:43
Papa Zoom 
Emne: Popular Mechanics
"To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy
theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and
reporters
who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70
professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine,
including aviation, engineering and the military.


In the end, we
were able to debunk
each of these assertions with hard evidence and a
healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based
on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day.
Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject
suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such
poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really
happened on a day that is forever seared into world history."

10. Februar 2009, 04:28:19
Papa Zoom 
Is Rosie O'Donnell in here? 

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