Forum for discussing local and world politics and issues. All views are welcomed. Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics.
All standard guidelines apply to this board, No Flaming, No Foul Language,No sexual innuendos,etc..
As politics can be a volatile subject, please consider how you would feel if your comment were directed toward yourself.
*"Moderators are here for a reason. If a moderator (or Global Moderator or Fencer) requests that a discussion on a certain subject to cease - for whatever reason - please respect these wishes. Failure to do so may result in being hidden, or banned." *Don't beat a dead horse. If the horse is declared "dead" by the moderator, let it lie.
Seznam diskusních klubů
Není vám dovoleno psát zprávy do tohoto klubu. Minimální úroveň členství vyžadovaná pro psaní v tomto klubu je Brain pěšec.
61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's Slaughterhouse
Do the math Ube. Even if you're right, (and you're not, you connect dots that aren't there) there is no comparison.
It's a far far different thing to get involved with another country to bring about political change, it's another to systematically murder millions upon millions of one's own citizens. Look at the history of the world and it's easy to see just how weak your argument really is. You've only shown how the US via the CIA (and likely the military at times) has involved itself with one government faction over another. Both factions were killing their own people. Hardly the direct fault of the US no matter how you try to spin it.
And fact mining can yield lots of data. It's the interpretation of the data that matters. Capitalism is an economic system that vastly differs from all others. It's not really a system at all but a lack of a system. In communism, people are forced to work for the State for the good of the State (and in extension, the good of the people). In Capitalism, people are free from the force of others. Capitalism itself doesn't force anything.
Communism OTOH, survives (when it does) at the end of a gun. Ultimately, it fails because it strips people of the individual dignity and keeps them in a state of forced work. Meanwhile the corrupt government officials skim off the top the choicest fruits of the work of others and dishes out the crumbs.
I'm not turning a blind eye to your copy and past marathon, it's just that your conclusion is faulty. You ignore the many other factors that interplay in such affairs and find a simplistic conclusion heavily based on your a priori judgment.
Subjekt: Re: Hardly the direct fault of the US no matter how you try to spin it.
Artful Dodger: And no matter how you spin it you cannot deny that the USA as well as other democratic western governments have stuck their nose in and helped and aided those they like... you called it the enemy of your enemy I believe.
This has included rather nasty people in the belief.. better dead then red is the old saying isn't it? Saying "we didn't do anything" is denial of the logistical and financial aide given to people to fight and kill perceived enemies of the west.
And I'm not saying communism (to use a loose term as it was just a disguised dictatorship scheme) is innocent, but neither is the west.
"Capitalism is an economic system that vastly differs from all others. It's not really a system at all but a lack of a system."
so was communism as under the USSR system. No real system to talk about as it didn't work.
Subjekt: Re: Hardly the direct fault of the US no matter how you try to spin it.
(V): You're not a former protege of Kim Philby are you?Seriously you are right, but I don't believe there was a whole of people trying to escape to the Warsaw Pact, or scale the Berlin Wall to get into East Berlin or boat people trying to get in to Cuba. In fact the vast , huge, majority were and are trying to do the opposite. Of course maybe these masses are the "stupid majority"
Subjekt: Re: Hardly the direct fault of the US no matter how you try to spin it.
(V): "Artful Dodger: And no matter how you spin it you cannot deny that the USA as well as other democratic western governments have stuck their nose in and helped and aided those they like... you called it the enemy of your enemy I believe."
Actually I wouldn't deny this. It's clear that the US has done just that. For whatever National interests they used for an excuse, it's clear that the US was involved in more than one questionable foreign undertakings.
"Capitalism is an economic system that vastly differs from all others. It's not really a system at all but a lack of a system."
so was communism as under the USSR system. No real system to talk about as it didn't work.
Communism is more a political and social system whereas capitalism is economic. Like anything, such can be abused and often is. In Communism, abuse is the norm. In Capitalism, no so.
I suppose that one could argue that in a perfect Communist system all would benefit. Or even in a dictatorship, if the dictator is a benevolent one, that could be a good thing.
But where there are failings of the US foreign policies of the past or present, most of the blame can be leveled at the politics and attitudes of soverignty. Likening communism with capitalism is just plain rubbish.
Subjekt: Re: Communism is more a political and social system whereas capitalism is economic.
Artful Dodger: Rubbish, at least not in the way we have it today.
"most of the blame can be levelled at the politics and attitudes of sovereignty."
I cannot agree, not when you've had the likes of the car industry approach Nixon to delay the introduction of seat belts and the wearing of.
Capitalism can become an ideology and as such the perceived needs to protect it can be over the top. And as such the Cold war was over the two systems. Communism or Capitalism. And then you have the big industry bosses creaming the public wallet or skipping on safety.
Artful Dodger: I'd agree with you, if it were not that business does interfere with government. As such in the western world there is no real separation of the two. As such companies try to become 'brands' (such as coke).. talking of which.. Santa these days is wearing which companies colours?
Politicians relaying on contributions for their election campaigns from businesses. Sarah Palin got through alot of 'suits' in the last Republican campaign to be in power, didn't she .. do I need to get you to do an essay on the lobbying system?
(V): Of course businesses lobby the government. Personally I wish it were against a law. I disagree that there isn't a separation of the two. I would agree that they can (and often are) closely linked. And in some cases, the two do operate as if they are one.
I don't see how Palin's suits have anything to do with the discussion. Should she have gone naked?
Artful Dodger: As long as business can lobby government in the way yours can, combined with election funding... they are always going to be intertwined. It ain't just a USA thing, our government closed down an investigation in bribery as it would have cost a defence company a big contract.
As for Palin.. $250K wasn't it on campaign clothing... alot of dosh for campaign clothes that came from supporters BIG and small.
As for naked... interesting.. I wonder if birthday suit debates would get more honesty out of the politicians???
(V): Federal funding for election campaigns has been debated here to keep business & other lobbies out of the process. There is some matching funds from the Feds, but participation is option. But, full Fed funding will never fly here cause both parties "eat from the same troth" of big business & special interests.
(V): If u are refering to political advertizing law. The McCain-Feingold Act of 2002 set some restrictions on how much money could be donated for political ads. But there are loopholes a mile wide.
Here is an article on maze of complex issues regarding this legislation with the court cases surrounding it.
(V): I agree w/ u. But, here the mentality of our courts is that how you are able to spend your money constutes free speech. In other words, regardless of whether funds raised are remotely even, candidates have the "right" to allocate their moneys however they see fit - that means any restriction placed upon time limits on commercial time being bought is considered a violation of free speech.
I think this particular mentality is rediculous & has nothing to do with individual free speech as an "inalienable" human right.
(V): Unfortunately yes it does. And it is no way to support the free flow of ideas in a demacracy or a republic. But, if u suggest any alternative to the "free marketplace" here, u are branded a Socialist or Communists. It's simply rediculous.
Ferris Bueller: It's not communist or socialist not to want to have 24/7 political broadcast bombardment... it's called not wanting to have the same rubbish shoved down your throat 24/7!!
If anyone says to you that's not American, then suggest to them they can have your share and sit in a room 24/7 just watching 'important messages'.
Maybe with some chocolate pretzels... bit melted, but still good. If you know your "Mallrats"
Ferris Bueller: I agree with Charlie on this one... you have something that works, dont worry about the name, just tell us how it works. If it is better than what we have, we will let you know ;)
(V): It's silly to talk about Palin's clothing as if that's really something that matters. It doesn't. It's a ploy of the mindless left to distract. And the fact that you bring it up shows the shortcomings in your arguments.
(skrýt) Pokud Vás zajímá průběh turnaje, který právě hrajete, můžete ho se svými spoluhráči komentovat přímo v "Diskusi" u tohoto turnaje. (Tanein) (zobrazit všechny tipy)